Modern Arnis Situation/Succession - Was "A question that needs to be answered"

[sinawali]

I am wondering, upon reading the latest emails, was exactly "teaching" mean?

I have encountered numerous "instructors" at Remy's camps/seminars. Some good, some not so good. Over the years, I have sat back watched, taught ( the ones who were the teachers) all in a respectful even tone and watched "beginners" turn to "masters" in a 2-4 year period.

All the while smiling, being silent and helping anyone and everyone with a question, or giving them advise on footwork, movement, and how the whole body is involved in Modern Arnis. I have spent some very special moments alone with Remy and now with his passing on, I just read that you are not allowed to teach unless you pay for rights from organization(s)?

I am confused ( with deep repsect to all involved)
for those who have truly practiced, developed, and have remained silent over these long years, the ones who have paid for all the knowledge at the camps, seminars...now have to pay again for the right to teach? I do not teach, but I am wondering...what about the Modern Arnisadors that have not come to the front of the line? the ones who prefered to be in the background and simply perfect themselves?

Remy would always say" Learn from everyone and everything"...and in this time of need, if I am asked by anyone to show them techniques to save thier life, I would be proud to say where they came from...but does that mean I am teaching???


Sinawali

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by Rich Parsons
Arnisadore et al,

You state that you have lost your rank due to the
fact that you have not sent any membership monies
into the IMAF.

No--I stated that that is what the IMAF would like me to believe, if I understand their website correctly (under "Ranking"). I am of the same thinking as Mr. Hartman, namely, that my rank came directly from Prof. Presas and my certificate of rank does not have an experiation date. (I believe that I have Mr. Hartman's position correctly but I am sure that he will correct me if I am mistaken.) I do not consider my rank to have changed. I didn't worry about rank much while the Professor was alive and I don't worry much about it now. Enough people do worry about it, though, that it will matter eventually who has the authority to grant recognized Modern Arnis rank--and the ranking system helps maintain the identity of the system. Without it it's more likely that the individual parts of the art will simply be integrated into other arts and Modern Arnis will disappear. (I myself could cite many counterexamples, but it does raise the odds of this happening.) That would be fine for those arts benefitting from Modern Arnis but a shame if the Professor's art melts away.

 

[Mao]

As far as modern arnis goes, as happens often when a founder passes, the are going to be different groups. There is IMAF,inc. and WMAA to name two of the biggies. There, as we know, have been many people who have trained over the yrs. and never tested, those who have and have certificates w/expiration dates, those without expiration dates, and those who couldn't care less about rank or certification. It is up to the individual who they train with or to which, if any, organization they belong. Datu "Gatorade" Hartman has his organization, requirements, and certificates. The IMAF,inc. also has theirs. Both are very good, well run organizations with good people in them. I can speak with regard to the IMAF,inc.. The stance is: Prof. Presas pushed more for expiration dates in the past few yrs. than previously. If one wants to be involved, membership is encouraged. All new members will have their expiration dates recognized. If one has no ex. date, one can join as a new member and get one. The idea is to have ex. dates in an effort to keep individuals/the group active and current. There are standards that will be shared with current members. The IMAF,inc. is not affiliated with J. Delaney. He broke off, with no prior notification to the rest of the group, to do his own thing. The IMAF,inc. is a strong, cohesive organization. There are a few things being put in place that will be announced at a later date. Again, feel free to e-mail me with any questions.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by arnisador


No--I stated that that is what the IMAF would like me to believe, if I understand their website correctly (under "Ranking"). . . , .

My Apologies for the misunderstanding. Thank you
for clearing up the situation.

As for the questions, they were to get replies
from others to see what they thought. I have seen
these people with lots of stripes on their belts.
I have helped and been helped by many people.
Everyone has something to teach me even if it is
nothing more than patience.

Those in the back ground or were not in the main
stream or main political movements of Modern
Arnis, will most likely others have said, continue
to teach on their own and give recognition to
Modern Arnis and Remy Presas.

Now I will fade back into the shadows and continue
to teach one or two people at a time.

Peace be with all -

Rich

 

[GouRonin]

I like the idea that expiration dates are on some certs. But only because it makes people stay active. On my university degree, I don't have an experation date though. I think if people don't give out certs like they were water and made people value them a bit more than experation dates might not be needed. That's just my opinion though.

What I would like to know is what is up with the "IMAF,Inc" and the "IMAF" thing? Same name? Huh?

 

[Mao]

The IMAF is what the Prof. was pushing for for the last few years. It has always existed in his thoughts but not as much in his actions untill the last 3-5 yrs. or so. There were a few people who began different "chapters" of the IMAF with the Profs. blessing, however, it wasn't until the last few years that the Prof. began to more actively make public the IMAF and his desire for its growth as THE organization for modern arnis. Fast forward to the past year or maybe two. A particular individual who's initials are J.D. took over the main IMAF website and began to manipulate it to his benefit and to the exclusion of most of his seniors, perhaps all of them. It became, by his actions, his website. Now the Prof. gets ill and this guy gets more and more brazen in his manipulation. The Prof. named a "team" of people to continue his art and many of his wishes. These people are still together under the auspices of IMAF,inc.. This happened because the same guy that took over the old website didn't want to cooperate with the rest. For all intents and purposes he separated from them and will probably not want to discontinue his use of the IMAF name among other things without a fight, legally. IMAF,inc. is moving forward in a strong, positive way to continue what the Prof. asked them to do. More will be made public in the near future.

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by Mao
The IMAF is what the Prof. was pushing for for the last few years. It has always existed in his thoughts but not as much in his actions untill the last 3-5 yrs. or so.

Thanks for this informative post. Certainly the Professor's art continued to evolve until the end. I must say that, sadly, he did not prepare adequately for the end, but I appreciate your perspective that he had been attempting to do so.

Still, it is odd that both Mr. Delaney and the Professor's children have such a different perspective on this. One bad apple is a possibility, if one views Mr. Delaney in that fashion, but surely his children would have been informed of his wishes? I know that he did not have frequent contact with his children in the Philippines (though Mr. Presas inferred that things were not quite as simple as this in his post), and yet...

I am certainly looking forward to seeing an official statement from IMAF, Inc. Have they stated who their director(s) is? Dr. Schea, I presume?

 

[Mao]

I do not know the Profs. grown children, only his very young ones. I do not know whether or not he made his wishes known to them. I do know that he made his wishes known to several people. We are operating on his last revised will and what he said directly to these people. The chairman of the board of the IMAF,inc. is Dr. Randi Shea. This has been so for many years. Professor Presas has refered to him as such for many years. There are six people on a steering committee. There is also a board of directors. There will be more info. shared at a later date.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

I'm confused.

IMAF, Inc.
P. O. Box 861
Dripping Springs, TX 78620
Chairman: Jeffrey J. Delaney
http://www.professorpresas.com

International Modern Arnis Federation
2322 Chappell Lane
Missouri-City TX 77459
Phone: 281-437-0817 Fax:281-437-1673
Chairman: Dr. Randi Shea
http://www.modernarnis.net

But by your post (MAO) it seems that the http://www.modernarnis.net site is ALSO IMAF, Inc.



Me thinks you folks been forgetting to duck when playing with those twigs. (tis a joke folks, no fwap me)

 

[DPRESAS]

Hello to all, I would like to share some information to you all. The whole (Presas family) two weeks before our father passed away we went to see him at Victoria Canada we spent lot of time talking and reminiscing about the past and talk about the future of his art which is modern arnis. He talk about how he love the art how proud he was of his student in the U.S. , Europe and Asia. How the art has matured in the next level. He spoke highly of many people, such as Roland Dantes, Kelly Worden, Tim Hartman, Rodel Dagooc and much more. One thing he spoke of is a unfinish wish that he wanted us the children of Remy A. Presas to do is to start where our father has stopped and to continue the art, another unfulfilled wish he wanted is for the politics, intriques and rumors to stop. That all modern arnis practitioners should concentrate more in the art not in ranking or belts. See in old days he mentioned that people didn't care of what belt you hold or rank you have, what mattered is yours skills and what you do with it. A lot of people asked why the children of Remy A. Presas pick up their canes one month after his death ? The answer is, it is the wish of our father for us to continue the art where he has stopped and to promote modern arnis and show the new techniques. In a few weeks our website will be up please feel free to visit everybody is welcome .will be showing some picture of the new style in single and double canes and capal and much more. We will be also sharing some picture of our fathers burial in the Philippines. Again for everybodys information our main goal is for our fathers legacy is to be remembered as the only grandmaster in modern arnis. We are not here to take anything from any clubs or organization MARRPIO is here to make sure his wishes are fulfilled. We would like also to congratulate Tim Hartman for a job will done our family is very happy for you. If our father is still with us he would have said Son of a Gun how did you do that. We look forward for mutual cooperation with Tim Hartman and all modernarnis clubs, organization and practitioners.

Demetrio Presas
MARRPIO:asian:

 

[Icepick]

DPresas -

Great post! I can hear your father saying that, and it brought a smile to my face!

Thanks.

 

[Cebu West]

Your position is well stated. I look foreward to your web site and to meeting and training with you.

 

[Mao]

Demetrio,
That was a very nice post. Thank you.
As for the IMAF,inc. question, J.D. has in the past and will probably do in the future things that he shouldn't and not do things that he should. Nuff said.

 

[DPRESAS]

MARPPIO'S WEB SITE will be up in a few weeks

 

[Bob Hubbard]

IMAF Inc stuff - I don't know how Corporate law in TX works, but in NY, only 1 entity can have that name, OR similar. A comma, or period is not enough to make a difference. Also, papers have to have been filed, and there is usually a period of time where the filling can be challenged. I'd have a lawyer familiar with TX law look into it if I were you guys. Ya may be able to spank him.

With all the heat this thread has generated, I was going to lock it a while back. I'm glad I didn't, for its generated alot of good information, and cleared up alot of issues.

Demetrio - please add the MARPPIO site to your profile. It'll make it easier for folks to find it. It'll be nice meeting you when you visit Tims school.

Peace all.


:asian:

 

[Mao]

IMAF,inc., that is to say Dr. Shea and the rest, have been doing things legally. Dr. Shea is a careful and cautious man. The thought with regards to legalities is an important one. Thanks.

 

[bloodwood]

A recent check of the IMAF seminar listings for 2002 seems to show only a few listings for next year. I thought I remembered an entire slate of dates listed a while ago. Maybe I'm wrong and my mind is slipping, but it appears that it's starting to hit the fan over there. I guess more people are aware of what's going on than you would think. Most of those dates were probably penciled in by the Professor when he last visited those locations.

So with the Professor gone, schools are now having to decide who they will bring in to help fill the void the Professor's passing has created. The're big shoes to fill, I hope we all go about it in an honorable and respectful way:soapbox:

 

[bloodwood]

Jd now posts himself and Dr Schea as grand masters even though Dr Schea is no longer with his organization. This just gets weirder by the day.

 

[Guro Harold]

ProfessorPresas.com also states that Dr. Shea is retired. Hey, wasn't he just in Chicago for a camp?


:erg:

 

[Datu Tim Hartman]

It just goes to show you how scared some of the Modern Arnis people are. Some people need to start rumors and tell lies about their competition because the only chance they would have to keep control.

I was keeping to myself until they started calling me a renegade and a traitor. I feel that there will be a lot more "Rumors" flying around!


:soapbox: