Modern Arnis Situation/Succession - Was "A question that needs to be answered"

[ARNIS PRINCESS]

Originally posted by arnisador

The only thing that could save its unity now, in my opinion, would be to merge with one of the Professor's brothers' organizations. This is not because I believe they are the best qualified but because I believe that no one else would gain sufficiently wide support from the Modern Arnis community.

With regard to Arnisador's post - I agree with most everything he states with the exception of his last paragraph. I have attended numerous seminars of Professor Presas, Ernesto Presas and Mr. Hartman. The professor was a showman. He knew how to please the crowd. I don't believe his brother, Ernesto, has the same level of ability, either in the showmanship or in his level of proficiency in Modern Arnis. He may be an excellent combatant, but his seminars certainly don't prove it. Mr. Hartman is proving to be an excellent alternative in terms of his Modern Arnis ability, as well as his ability to "work the crowd". I would definitely attend one of his seminars before I would consider attending one of Ernesto's seminars.

Arnis Princess

 

[Sir_Yantok]

GM Remy Presas has a brother, Ernesto Presas and he is involved in a system similar to Modern Arnis.

Delaney is definitely a pretender in a brawl.

I believe that Harwood has no position of leadership in any organization, and I believe in modernarnis.com that her only involvement with the Presas Family is donating the website for their organization. I believe the director of MARPPIO will be Remy. P. Presas Jr.

The Children of Remy Presas are knowledgable in the art of Arnis, reason being is that their father is the Grandmaster, especially Mary Ann and Remy Jr.

 

[Datu Tim Hartman]

I thought in situations like this that the leadership role usually fell to either a family member who is highly ranked in the art, or to the highest ranked student of the deceased?
That is what the problem is. I have made my opinions for years that the IMAF needed some house cleaning. If tradition was followed by it's members I would be in charge and people would have to shape up or ship out. This is why I think things went down the way they did.

I know GM Presas has a brother...Ernesto? Is he involved with Modern Arnis?
Ernesto has his own art Kombaton. It is not the same program.

In regards to Mr. Delaney - What rank is he? I've seen him listed as a 3rd degree Black Belt, a 5th degree and a 10th (isn't that what a Grandmaster rank is?)
JD is only a 5th degree. None of the MOTTs were promoted above that rank. I don't understand how any of them could use the title of GM.

In regards to Ms. Harwood - What rank is she, and what level of leadership has she had in the MA community?
She had a 1st degree black and was the first to manage Remy' web site.

Regarding the Presas family - I have seen GM Remy Presas listed as the founder of the art, and know his brother (Ernesto?) is also active in -a- art (not sure if its MA or something else. What has the rest of the family done?
The children were active in the Philippines in the forming of the art but have not been active with Remy in 20 years.

I believe the director of MARPPIO will be Remy. P. Presas Jr.
He is the President.

The Children of Remy Presas are knowledgeable in the art of Arnis, reason being is that their father is the Grandmaster, especially Mary Ann and Remy Jr.
Once again in the original style, not what Remy turned it into. Remember they have not trained with him in 20 years. This is told me directly by the Presas family themselves.

The only thing that could save its unity now, in my opinion, would be to merge with one of the Professor's brothers' organizations. This is not because I believe they are the best qualified but because I believe that no one else would gain sufficiently wide support from the Modern Arnis community.
If I had not had the opportunity to attend several of Ernesto's seminars I would agree. He good at what he does but as fare as teaching the art I would have to agree with Arnis Princess that I do a much better job than he does in the seminar format. He moves well but we are talking about teaching the art to further it not just fighting with it. In addition he does not know Remy's art.

Arnisador was right when he said that people don't know the whole art. When I tested last year we were asked to do six count drill. This is very basic yet most of the black belts could not do it along with a bunch of other basic moves. Leadership is important. A good leader would make sure that errors like that would not happen.

The funny thing is that of all of the "Players that are involved I am the only you that started in and teaches Modern Arnis as a full time art with the exception of the Presas family. They have all relied on other arts for their foundation and teach our art as a secondary art form.
:soapbox: :samurai::uzi:

P.S. I Love these new smiles! Give us More!!
:cheers::flame:

 

[Cthulhu]

To me, logic would dictate (yikes...sound like Spock) that in the absence of a qualified successor (by which, I mean a successor agreed upon by the vast majority of the instructors in the system), the leadership should pass to the highest ranked, active person in the system. By many accounts, that would seem to be Mr. Hartman, who can prove his promotion to 6th degree black belt by Mr. Presas himself. From what I can tell, no other person currently active in Modern Arnis can match that claim.

Bear in mind that I have no affiliation with Modern Arnis, the WMAA, or the IMAF. In fact, I do not even practice a Filipino martial art. This is just me applying basic logic to an increasingly confusing issue.

Cthulhu
done talkin' outta his butt

 

[Datu Tim Hartman]

But Spock... we have.. no...intelligent...lifeforms...to...hear you...
Scottie....One to beam up!
:shrug:

 

[bloodwood]

There is no way that a 5th degree black belt will have the drawing power or get the respect needed to carry the modern arnis organization into the future. Any one of higher rank or for that mater the same rank will not fall in line behind them. What is needed is someone of higher rank than the rest, with high exposure, great depth of knowledge in Modern Arnis and supplemented with cross training in other art forms. This person must know how to lead and make people want to make themselves better just by watching them and saying, i want to be like that someday.
Say what you will, haggle over it all you want, but the only person who fits that description is DATU TIM HARTMAN.
There is no way Tim Hartman could fall in line behind someone of much lower rank and knowledge, however it could go the other way around. Under Datu Hartman, Modern Arnis could thrive and come to the forefront of the arts. From what I know of him, I am sure he would share the pie and bring in the high ranked Modern Arnis instructors to assist and help in keeping the Professor's dream alive.
There should be no need to haggle over this because the right man for the job is already doing the job every time he teaches

 

[Cthulhu]

From what I'm reading, it seems that many of the black belts, including higher ranking black belts (!) don't even know some of the basic requirements.

Simple test: Anyone claiming leadership of the system must be able to demonstrate all of the basic requirements needed for their current rank. Furthermore, they must be able to explain them down to the most minute detail. This would probably knock quite a few people 'out of the running'.

In my eyes, this would be like somebody claiming leadership of Shotokan karate, yet that person was unable to perform the Heian katas, which are pretty much the basic kata that all black belts have to know.

And to bring in something from another forum on this board...a person can claim whatever the hell they want. However, after all is said and done, and they can't perform, then they expose themselves for what they are fairly quickly.

If this Delaney fella is as bad as people are saying, then he'll bring himself to ruin, given time.

Patience, Grasshopper(s).

Cthulhu

 

[GouRonin]

I don't know about anyone else but few beers motivates me...
:rofl:

 

[Rich Parsons]

:soapbox:

Hi All -
I met the Renegade many years ago, at a Michigan
Summer Camp. I believe in 1986. I agree, throw
him some raw meat from time to time, the iron
is good for you, or at least for me it is. ;~)

I was curious about the Modern Arnis website
and the fact that Lori gave it to the Presas,
family. It is hers to give, yes, and the Presas
family could have it in my mind. But will she
take ti back from them later? When her mind
changes.

To the Renegade: Does the public promotion
include an open test, with members from other arts
present including others from Modern Arnis? Or
must it be at a Summer camp or seminar? The Flint
group I train with all tested for their belts
in front of others present, but mostly locals.
I have had the privledge to see some test for
third and fourth in front of GM Presas.
(* Moment of Respect *)
Just curious.

As to miss Loru Harwood. Remy Presas approached me and one of bst friends to help with the website. He told us to make it better. To contact Lori and help her. We did. My friend gave up
after being unable to get any information from
Miss Harwood. She was even present when GM Presas
told us to help her. I continues out of a sense
of duty. 6 Months later Remy Presas approached me again and asked my why there were no improvements? I tried to explain that I could not get anythign from Lori. Lori was afraid I was going to take the web site away from her. After GM Presas talked to her, and I contacted her again, she at least was beginning to cooperate. But, to get this, I had to
tell her numerous time, not to put my name on the web site. Take full credit. Even with this she
only delivered half the files for me to work with.
OR she would not make the corrections, I sent back to her.

I finally had to tell GM Presas I was not able to help him out. I did not do this for the credit
or for a rank, but because of a man I respected
asked me to help him. But in the end I could not.

I do hope that she has turned around and does
not hurt the Presas' Family.

As for the IMAF, I consider my self a defunct
ex-member, who no longer holds any rank.
The knowloedge is still there, which is all I
ever wanted. The titles are for people who not
only deserve them, but can dedicate their life
and time to the art. FMA is a part of my life.

THanks for the soap box

Rich

 

[Cthulhu]

At the risk of getting :flame:

I'll say this: whoever this Harwood woman is, nobody seems to have anything particularly nice to say about her.

Just an observation.

Cthulhu

 

[GouRonin]

What does she look like?

 

[IFAJKD]

Messy...staying away...Someone will be the weakest link...goodbye

 

[Icepick]

Holy SHEEET!! This place looks like FUN!! :rofl:

 

[IFAJKD]

full of land mines. walk softly:flame:

 

[bloodwood]

One good thing that has come of all this is that the ranks of Martial Talk are growing. HOORAY for us!!!

I think I'll stay up the rest of the weekend and send in 1000 posts and become a Grand Master, then Monday I'll unvail my new organization. I better go and get started before Gou gets there first.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

:rofl:
Just remember..they gotta be quality posts. No fair posting 1000 single-smilie posts.

 

[Cthulhu]

We may end up needing a separate forum for the Modern Arnis debate. I don't think any other forum has generated quite so many responses.

Cthulhu

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Well, they say controvercy is good....

Course, I think the majority of our visitors are currently FMA folks too, as the words still getting out about us. I expect that within a year, all the forums will be buzzing nicely. :asian:

 

[DPRESAS]

In behalf of our family,the late grand master Remy Presas we would like to extend appreciation to all that has remember our father for what he has done to promote the modern arnis art. There could only be one grand master and that is the late Remy A. Presas for those who would like to be new grand master I only have one question to ask you , did you founded or created the art of modern arnis ? if so you may claim the title. How ever if you have not founded modern arnis or created the art . the grand master is Remy A. Presas. For those who are questioning the abilities of my brother and my sister. On how good they are in modern arnis you will be surprise. I would like to inform everybody. My self , Dr Remy presas and Mary Ann will be accompanied by our senior instructor from the Philippine each instructor are the original students of our father which they are from 7th to 9th degree blackbelt in modern arnis/ eskrima/ kali. All of the instuctor have been arnis trainers for thirty years they will accompany us during seminars as consultance. Dr. Presas and Mary Ann along with the senior instructors were the first to be train by our father before he migrated to America in the years that has past they have continued to practice and maintain the skills that was past down from our great grandfather to our grandfather to our father and now to us. We will continue to protect our fathers good name and his title as the only grandmaster of modern arnis.

Dr. Remy P Presas
Demetrio Jose P Presas III
MaryAnn P Presas
MARPPIO :asian:

 

[bloodwood]

Yes there is only one grand master of Modern Arnis and that is Remy A Presas. Iwill miss him terribly. The question is now that your family is trying to continue leadership of Modern Arnis, and since Remy was teaching in the USA for the past 20 years where was your training coming from and who promoted these original students to 7th rank and above? I have not met any of the family or seen any of you in action, so I will keep an open mind.

Never would I disrespect the Professor's family in any way and I look foreward to crossing sticks with you. You must remember though that your family has emerged with the suttulty of a tornado here in America. Many people have many questions.
People follow who they know and are familiar with their style and their personality. There is much to consider.

The other issue that you need to address is Datu Tim Hartman, your fathers close friend and his highest active ranked Modern Arnis student. He was unjustly left out of the IMAF group and this issue must be cleared up. I hate to say it but your family's leadership abillity will be put to the test right away.

The road ahead will be rocky so Go With the Flow

BLOODWOOD