Martial Arts Certifications

[Miles]

This got me to pondering if the other states would follow N.J. and start requiring registration of rank before allowing a BB to open a school. For this reason and this reason alone I sought out to get all of my ranks recognized and "certified." What this does is allows for anyone questioning my rank or legitimacy to go to the national orgainzation that has certified me and check my credentials. .......So what I am trying to say is that there are some good things that come from being affiliated with a quality organization.

Thanks Searcher. I have an additional comment though about certification and registration of ranks since this is a nuance of the same topic. I hope nobody will take this the wrong way. Usually I am pretty optimistic.

If the legislatures of other states follow that of New Jersey and require someone to be certified before he/she can teach MA publicly, the Legislature may create a commission to set up the certification process.

The Commissioners may all be Brazilian Ju-jitsu folks, or Tai Chi Chuan practitioners, or (name an art other than those you practice here). This may mean that your certifications (and mine will NOT be recognized.

I think it ironic that I have a document stating I am certified as an Instructor by the World HQ of TKD but the State of MI may decide my credential isn't worth the paper its printed on.

Miles

 

[searcher]

If the legislatures of other states follow that of New Jersey and require someone to be certified before he/she can teach MA publicly, the Legislature may create a commission to set up the certification process.

The Commissioners may all be Brazilian Ju-jitsu folks, or Tai Chi Chuan practitioners, or (name an art other than those you practice here). This may mean that your certifications (and mine will NOT be recognized.

I think it ironic that I have a document stating I am certified as an Instructor by the World HQ of TKD but the State of MI may decide my credential isn't worth the paper its printed on.

Miles

It is a trult scary thought that the government is getting more involved with the martial arts. It gets you to thinking back the how the Okinawans had to teach in secret after the Satsuma samurai clan forbid them from training or possessing any weapons and also how the Koreans had to train in secret to hide from the Japanese. Are we going to be next? Can you imagine having to train in secret for fear of imprisionment or death?

Very scary indeed.

 

[MichiganTKD]

Keeping in mind that your average legislature knows zilch about martial arts training, letting them decide who gets to teach and who doesn't is absurd. Let's say that a legislator on the committee is a Shotokan guy. Do you really think he's going to make it easy for Tae Kwon Do or Kenpo instructors to be state certified? Would he even be familiar with their training and what they have to go through to get to the instructor level?
It is no different than at open tournaments when the referee is karate, and one of the fighters is Tae Kwon Do and the other is Karate. Guess who is going to lose?

 

[Han-Mi]

Some instructors have refused to recognize the rank of a few of our higher black belts because we do not have a WTF "NUMBER", at least until they saw tht our skill heald right up with there "standards, if not surpassing them. Our blackbelts are certified by a 9th dan who sat on the WTF council, it just happens to be much cheaper not to have the WTF certify us directly. Certification is not such a big deal in my eyes, as long as you can show that you deserve the rank you hold. And one of our black belts has just joined the U.S. Army's TKD team, without the official WTF certification. Our certification and his skill was good enough for the army, I would suppose it should be good enough for any other governing entity.

 

[Miles]

It gets you to thinking back the how the Okinawans had to teach in secret after the Satsuma samurai clan forbid them from training or possessing any weapons and also how the Koreans had to train in secret to hide from the Japanese. Are we going to be next? Can you imagine having to train in secret for fear of imprisionment or death? Very scary indeed.

Well, what I am envisioning may not be quite so bad-more like a civil penalty (i.e. fine) versus a criminal penalty (i.e. imprisonment). For instance, if the State Bar of Michigan heard of someone practicing law without a license, it would go after that person and there would be a fine-it might not be a crime unless the person misrepresented to the public that he is a licensed attorney. In MI, you need to hold licenses for many professions. It would not surprise me if eventually martial arts instructors had to be licensed, like barbers.....("the public has to be protected"-that's the mantra of those pushing this sort of legislation)

Miles

 

[MichiganTKD]

The problem is, who do you certify and regulate something that is, by and large, still a novelty in this country? Martial arts have been available on a widespread basis in this country for only about 40 years or so. How would the gov't possibly decide who is a worthy teacher and who is not? Would you have to be certified by a governing board in your art's home country? Who would be on this board? What happens if, say, the TKD board contains someone or people that your instructor has disagreements with?
The difference between certifying instructors and certifying teachers is that everyone must go to school, whether public or private. Therefore, you should make sure that the teachers your child will be exposed to are qualified. You don't have to practice martial arts. And if you disagree with an instructor's style, you can go somewhere else. It's not that easy with schools. I think economics and word of mouth should determine who can teach and why.

 

[Miles]

How would the gov't possibly decide who is a worthy teacher and who is not? Would you have to be certified by a governing board in your art's home country? Who would be on this board? What happens if, say, the TKD board contains someone or people that your instructor has disagreements with?... I think economics and word of mouth should determine who can teach and why.

Who would decide? Dunno-but I can say that generally speaking (sorry, lawyer's weasel words!) a politician has a friend who knows somebody who knows something about (**enter topic here-let's choose TKD for sake of discussion). The politician gets other politicians (i.e. governor/executive) to appoint a commission where they study the issue. There are potential problems at each step of the process.

I tend to disagree with your last statement about economics and word of mouth-not fully disagree because I think to some extent the "market" may dictate who is a good instructor or not. But, many people can be fleeced by a quick-talking salesperson. "Word of mouth" as it means reputation within the martial arts community is a better way of measuring who should be certified, but MI TKD, you yourself pointed out the potential problem: what if someone in a position of authority has a disagreement with a reputable instructor?

Miles

 

[MichiganTKD]

Exactly. What if a member of the governing state board for Tae Kwon Do and my instructor have political and personal disagreements? The board member would undoubtably make it much harder for an instructor in our organization to teach.
Anyway, having the gov't issue licenses to teach martial arts smacks of Communist China, where only state-recognized Wushu is allowed, or Korea during the Japanese Occupation.
Something tells me the state would not only regulate WHO would teach, but what the curriculum would be, making it watered down and safe for all.
I think martial arts students and parents should decide who teaches or doesn't by voting with their wallets. If noone will study under you, you don't teach.

 

[Brad Dunne]

Just for argumental sake, here's a thought for the "Who" for the overseeing body, the AAU. They have been involved with the American Olympic movement for a long time and in general is respected by the politicans. Another game plan for the politicans to choose would be asking the movie star martial artists, i.e. Chuck Norris, Bill Wallace, etc... Rest assured, If the politicans think they can make a buck from regulating the arts, they will not hesitate. The hand writting is on the wall as we speak. Several states are reportedly seriously looking into the matter. If one states does it, that opens the flood gates. Understand, there most likely will be a back door to this effort. I would assume that it would only affect commerical schools. Therefor there would still be some teaching venues that would not be affected, at least in the beginning.

 

[Miles]

Brad, not sure the AAU could do the overseeing because it is a sports organization. If it were to be national in scope, how about the Dept of Homeland Security-their mandate seems to cover just about everything?

Miles

 

[Brad Dunne]

Brad, not sure the AAU could do the overseeing because it is a sports organization. If it were to be national in scope, how about the Dept of Homeland Security-their mandate seems to cover just about everything?

The only reason I mentioned the AAU is that they already have a certification process in place. Granted, as you pointed out, they are more intuned with the sport aspect of the arts, but they are a known entity. Homeland Security has it's hands full with trying to faciliate an understanding of how to coordinate safeguards thruout the country with regional and local resources. It's doubtful that they would even entertain the thought of getting envolved with something as mundane as "Karate Schools", but you never know.....

 

[floweringknight]

Hello all,

Great points made by everyone. And a very real and scary situation - regulation. Here is another angle (as in counter-offensive); always thinking like a martial artist!
What if you / I / we were to simply add Taoism, Buddhism, Confusionism, Cathalisism, or etc. to our curriculum and proclamed ourselves to be a religious organization? We would then be protected by our own Constitution, wouldn't have to pay taxes, and pretty much could do as we please.....
Granted this is an extreme example. Thoughts? Comments?
Please excuse the ambiguous ramblings of this low ranking novice.

 

[shesulsa]

That's an interesting consideration, SBN. However, it does appear that the separation of church and state might preclude that we might be told where and when we can and can't practice our "religion."

However, it does seem plausible that a faith exemption might offer some protection as well.

 

[MichiganTKD]

Unfortunately, listing yourself as a Buddhist, Catholic, Taoist, or any other religious affiliation to earn an exemption might also drive students away who don't want to study under an overtly religious school. And if you explain that it is merely to earn an exemption, you will be uncovered.
I'm not really sure what the solution is. If you make the certification process too general it accomplishes nothing. And if it is too strict, you would likely eliminate a lot of otherwise good instructors. But again, who certifies and what criteria do they use?

 

[floweringknight]

One thing is for certain: WHEN (not if) this happens, it is going to be ugly! I wonder if we could follow the path set by the NRA. As in the right to bear arms (and legs)??? Thoughts?

 

[floweringknight]

Please keep in mind that I am offering these "suggestions" as a way of stimulating thinking and dialog - that is all. Did that sound like a disclaimer? wow

 

[shesulsa]

Please keep in mind that I am offering these "suggestions" as a way of stimulating thinking and dialog - that is all. Did that sound like a disclaimer? wow

HAHAHAHAHA!!!! Yes it did, sir.

 

[TigerWoman]

heheh...thinking about my dojang and how our master calls it a Christian school excluding others as it becomes more and more obvious...stuff on the walls, on the website, bible studies during workouts. So I guess we already have that exemption if they do that. TW

 

[searcher]

I guess we will all have to role with the punches. No pun intended. As long as we don't give them anything that they(the polititions) can use against us then we won't have to worry about it.

Do any of you use the certifications to help with your student recruitment or with students retention? I have seen many less than average instructors, ok they are really poor, use their certifications to get students and to "steal" students from other instructors. Very dis-honorable, but effective.

 

[Miles]

Homeland Security has it's hands full with trying to faciliate an understanding of how to coordinate safeguards thruout the country with regional and local resources. It's doubtful that they would even entertain the thought of getting envolved with something as mundane as "Karate Schools", but you never know.....

I think you are right-Homeland Security probably has bigger fish to fry than the mundane Karate schools....I'm thinking maybe they'll go after the Ninja folks. Seriously though, there was something on the radio yesterday about how little preparation has gone on to prevent another terrorist attack. And today is the anniversary of OK City. Sad, very sad.