Martial Arts and Physical Fitness

[terryl965]

I guest that I would be consider "fat" I'm 5'9" and wiegh 227 right now! I'm in shape for my age 45. I know I can move better at 190 lbs. but for the most part, reality is I will not be facing 20 years with fresh legs so being in shape and being overwieght is a total different structure. One can be in pretty good shape while being overwieght, in my own opion and I own and instruct plenty of young adults in TKD. We all as we would like to be in the best physical shape possible have limitation with health issue and other personal problem but still have the knowledge to pass along.

 

[RRouuselot]

I guest that I would be consider "fat" I'm 5'9" and wiegh 227 right now! I'm in shape for my age 45. I know I can move better at 190 lbs. but for the most part, reality is I will not be facing 20 years with fresh legs so being in shape and being overwieght is a total different structure. One can be in pretty good shape while being overwieght, in my own opion and I own and instruct plenty of young adults in TKD. We all as we would like to be in the best physical shape possible have limitation with health issue and other personal problem but still have the knowledge to pass along.

The best way to know if you are over weight is by testing body fat. Some people have more muscle than the average person for their height and therefore all the height/weight charts would not be accurate for them. Below are 2 websites that can give you an idea of your approximate body fat. To truly know what your body fat is you have to be tested with water immersion or by a machine like MicroFit. However the 2 links can give most people a pretty close estimate.





http://www.thepumpingstation.com/bodyfatcalculator.html



http://www.stevenscreek.com/goodies/pi.shtml





another way is by testing your BMI. It’s not the best way but it can also give you a rough idea of where you are. For example, I tested my co-worker that is 5’7” and 153 lbs.. According to the BMI chart he was overweight, but when we tested his body fat he was between 7% to 9% body fat. Anything below 12% is damn good! Mind you he doesn’t fit into the “norm” category. He lifts almost everyday and does cardio 4 to 5 times a week.



http://nhlbisupport.com/bmi/bmicalc.htm





Also of note…. Being “in shape” athletically and being over fat are not the same thing.

Being over fat doesn’t mean that someone cannot perform well athletically. It just means they need to work harder to perform.

Being “in shape” is measured by your VO2 max….plainly put VO2 max = cardio strength…how much oxygen you use per unit of time…..how well your heart and lungs work as compared to your weight.

 

[Colin_Linz]

If I could, I would like to summarize some points that have been made and get your opinions on there validity to the original question of being fit to be called a martial artist.
1. Fitness will improve your performance in martial arts.
2. Fitness will improve your life.
3. Training will make you fitter.
4. To be considered a martial artist you need to pass some standard of fitness assessment.
5. You can be a martial artist even on your deathbed.

I can understand some of your criticisms of extremely out of shape and poor performing instructors. I have never encountered this within my art. I have certainly encountered instructors of varying fitness levels, but this had little to do with their abilities to apply techniques or teach them. We have one instructor here that suffered a bad electrical shock some years ago. This has left him with continual heart problems that sometimes mean he can’t train for extended periods of time. His application of techniques in a randori environment though are almost without peer here in Australia. Would he perform better if he was fitter? Probably, but the reality is his performance now is better than many very fit people, even ones at his rank.

My personal definition of a martial artist is someone who is studying a martial art, and can perform the techniques required for the level of their grade, in a manner suitable for their grade, barring times of convalescence. I’m not entirely sure what to do with accomplished martial artists that retire from the arts.

 

[terryl965]

If I could, I would like to summarize some points that have been made and get your opinions on there validity to the original question of being fit to be called a martial artist.
1. Fitness will improve your performance in martial arts.
2. Fitness will improve your life.
3. Training will make you fitter.
4. To be considered a martial artist you need to pass some standard of fitness assessment.
5. You can be a martial artist even on your deathbed.

I can understand some of your criticisms of extremely out of shape and poor performing instructors. I have never encountered this within my art. I have certainly encountered instructors of varying fitness levels, but this had little to do with their abilities to apply techniques or teach them. We have one instructor here that suffered a bad electrical shock some years ago. This has left him with continual heart problems that sometimes mean he can’t train for extended periods of time. His application of techniques in a randori environment though are almost without peer here in Australia. Would he perform better if he was fitter? Probably, but the reality is his performance now is better than many very fit people, even ones at his rank.

My personal definition of a martial artist is someone who is studying a martial art, and can perform the techniques required for the level of their grade, in a manner suitable for their grade, barring times of convalescence. I’m not entirely sure what to do with accomplished martial artists that retire from the arts.

All I know is I"m overwieght but I'm in shape enough to be able to do what I need if I had too!!! So many people put being thin is the only people in shape!!! Guess what they can't keep up in the Dojaang now in a race for 10 miles they have me but close quarters they belong to me and my Art!!!!!!!:asian:

 

[Colin_Linz]

So you would fit into my definition of a martial artist, along with the kenshi I mentioned with the heart problems. Please transfer the sum of $500 to my bank account and I will issue you my certificate of obtaining the title “Martial Artist”.


On the issue of fitness only. I would agree with Robert, but with an extra observation. Peoples size is not always because of lifestyle. Some people are genetically predispositioned to be a larger framed person. These people can bring there weight down, but it will require a lot more effort in dieting and exercise than the ordinary overweight person. This doesn’t mean that their physical performance will be bad. They may never be an elite Triathlete, because there body structure is not suited to the requirements of the activity. They may be more suitable to some power sports like Olympic Weight lifting. When I used to do Triathlons I trained with some larger guys. Some of them managed to get their weight down, but they found that they felt like they lacked energy and their performance levels dropped. I think these guys just where naturally larger, rather than their lifestyle causing them to be large.

 

[RRouuselot]

1)[font=&quot] [/font]On the issue of fitness only. I would agree with Robert, but with an extra observation. Peoples size is not always because of lifestyle. Some people are genetically predispositioned to be a larger framed person.

2)[font=&quot] [/font]These people can bring there weight down, but it will require a lot more effort in dieting and exercise than the ordinary overweight person. This doesn’t mean that their physical performance will be bad. They may never be an elite Triathlete, because there body structure is not suited to the requirements of the activity. They may be more suitable to some power sports like Olympic Weight lifting.
3)[font=&quot] [/font]When I used to do Triathlons I trained with some larger guys. Some of them managed to get their weight down, but they found that they felt like they lacked energy and their performance levels dropped. I think these guys just where naturally larger, rather than their lifestyle causing them to be large.

1)[font=&quot] [/font]Actually I think we are in agreement on this point as well. That’s why I mentioned being over fat as opposed to “over weight”. The co-worker I mentioned was over weight according to his BMI chart. However he was extremely fit when given a more accurate test.

2)[font=&quot] [/font]Some people have more muscle mass for their size than others and most likely will not fair well in marathons and so forth. They usually have more white muscle fiber and tend to be better at power sports rather than endurance.

3)[font=&quot] [/font]Anytime you try to lose weight and feel a lack of energy you are not lose the right kind of weight. More often than not you are losing muscle mass as opposed to fat.


Another point to mention is some people have more intramuscular fat than others and don’t really appear to be fat. I do body fat tests on Japanese from time to time and they appear to be a rather thin race of people. However, when I test them their body fat % is really high (over 25% in most cases) compared to what they look like.


Having said all that……a big gut that hangs out there is still a quick and easy indication someone is too fat.

 

[Danjo]

Colin,


What about those like Chokki Motubu (Whom I pictured in an earlier post) and say, Ed Parker. Not exactly a slim fellow without a gut and who died at age 59? How would these fellows rank as martial artists in your book?

 

[Colin_Linz]

Colin,


What about those like Chokki Motubu (Whom I pictured in an earlier post) and say, Ed Parker. Not exactly a slim fellow without a gut and who died at age 59? How would these fellows rank as martial artists in your book?

Not ever having the opportunity to know them I would have to go by international opinion. I would expect that they would be able to pass the requirements I stated. Now would they be good in a martial sport? That is a different question, as is the issue of fighting ability. There are many martial arts, they don't all have the same emphasis on fighting or competing abilities.

 

[Colin_Linz]

1)Actually I think we are in agreement on this point as well. That’s why I mentioned being over fat as opposed to “over weight”. The co-worker I mentioned was over weight according to his BMI chart. However he was extremely fit when given a more accurate test.

2)Some people have more muscle mass for their size than others and most likely will not fair well in marathons and so forth. They usually have more white muscle fiber and tend to be better at power sports rather than endurance.

3)Anytime you try to lose weight and feel a lack of energy you are not lose the right kind of weight. More often than not you are losing muscle mass as opposed to fat.


Another point to mention is some people have more intramuscular fat than others and don’t really appear to be fat. I do body fat tests on Japanese from time to time and they appear to be a rather thin race of people. However, when I test them their body fat % is really high (over 25% in most cases) compared to what they look like.


Having said all that……a big gut that hangs out there is still a quick and easy indication someone is too fat.

As part of my level 2 Coaching course for Cycling I did some body fat checks on a couple of different athletes. The first was an up and coming Triathlete that we were lactate testing at the time. The other was a walk-in, he is one of the worlds best Cycling Track Sprinters and an ex world Champion. If you saw any of the Track Cycling at the Olympics he was the Aussie with the fearsome looking beard. He had just finished his off-season and was making jokes about how much trouble he was in because of all the beer he had been drinking and his lack of training. He is a very large man. Anyway when we did the body fat test he came out with less body fat than the skinny Triathlete. Looks can indeed be deceiving.

 

[TCA]

I believe good physical fitness is a definite if you want to reach the goal of being the very best that you can be. I have heard instructors tell students that they felt that strength training would hinder ther MA abilities (flexibility). This is incorrect information and usually spoken by one out of shape. Bruce Lee was a strong advocate for strength training as was Joe Lewis. Both, the best in their area. The stronger of two opponents usually always win (this includes mental strength as well). This is only my opinion...

 

[Colin_Linz]

I believe good physical fitness is a definite if you want to reach the goal of being the very best that you can be. I have heard instructors tell students that they felt that strength training would hinder ther MA abilities (flexibility). This is incorrect information and usually spoken by one out of shape. Bruce Lee was a strong advocate for strength training as was Joe Lewis. Both, the best in their area. The stronger of two opponents usually always win (this includes mental strength as well). This is only my opinion...

I don’t think anyone would disagree with most of your comments. While strength is an advantage, it is only an advantage if it can be applied well. I have seen a number of examples of weaker people overcoming strong people. The Ali v Forman fight in Africa that I used earlier was a good example of this. To be effective you need the right combination of a number of qualities like fitness, timing, strategy, technique, and mental attitude. They all come together to form the whole.

 

[Tgace]

Foreman didnt have the option of throwing Ali to the ground and beating the **** out of him though.

 

[The Kai]

Ali was in great shape, allthough foreman was just stronger. Ali's strategy was to let Foreman "punch himself out". I don't think taking that kind of abuse is agreat idea!!
Todd

 

[Colin_Linz]

Foreman didnt have the option of throwing Ali to the ground and beating the **** out of him though.

Indeed, this is where activity specific fitness comes in. Boxing like all sports will be shaped by the rules that govern it.

Come to think of it that tactic was tried once too by a Japanese Judoka. It wasn’t the most entertaining matches. Ali danced around, while the Judoka lay on his back kicking Ali whenever he got close enough. Neither would risk engaging the other outside their method of expertise.

 

[Colin_Linz]

Ali was in great shape, allthough foreman was just stronger. Ali's strategy was to let Foreman "punch himself out". I don't think taking that kind of abuse is agreat idea!!
Todd

Forman was formidable then. His power on the heavy bag was truly impressive. I remember an interview with one of Ali's trainers. They walked past Forman while he was training on the heavy bag, and Ali's face showed awe. Ali knew that he could not risk getting into any exchanges with him until he became tired, so he just covered up and kept goading Forman on. Not really the best tactic to use, but given his options it was probably the best one to use if he wanted to win.

 

[tongsau]

Why do all the large muscled guys get fat?

Anyway. I always heard that you should do cardio before Weights. Jean Claude's workout regimen was 30min of Cardio and 45 of Weights.
Some people say if you are spending 2 hours in the gym you are wasting your time. I think Arnold said that. Not sure.

What would you recommend for a person who struggles with injury related weight gain. Aside from eating less. I have a torn ankle ligament (ATFL) Can't run. Walking hurts after 2 miles. Dislocated knee due to this injury.
And developing arthritis, Knees, ankles, hands and shoulders.
Had an appendechtomy that causes my stomach to cramp after 20 reps of anything. Have been slowly increasing this but it is SLOW. Like 2 reps a month before cramping.
I need a punching bag - don't know what that will do to my hands? Anyone know how to lower the effects of Arthritis? My hands hurt after typing this message.
Trying Qi Gong. Thinking of doing some BJJ but don't know if I can do the warm-up.

 

[Adept]

I have a torn ankle ligament (ATFL) Can't run. Walking hurts after 2 miles. Dislocated knee due to this injury.
And developing arthritis, Knees, ankles, hands and shoulders.
Had an appendechtomy that causes my stomach to cramp after 20 reps of anything. Have been slowly increasing this but it is SLOW. Like 2 reps a month before cramping.
I need a punching bag - don't know what that will do to my hands? Anyone know how to lower the effects of Arthritis? My hands hurt after typing this message.
Trying Qi Gong. Thinking of doing some BJJ but don't know if I can do the warm-up.

You want something extremely low impact. Maybe tai chi. Anything whith those kinds of progressive problems, it is better to avoid anything that will make them worse. BJJ might sound good, but how will your knees and ankles feel after a few locks and whatnot have been applied to them?

 

[tongsau]

Ankle locks should be OK. My foot is more flexible. But I may want to know if any locks can cause my knee to sublux again. Good point.
Tai Chi would be nice if I could pay the high price for a real teacher. Not some old lady teaching the "Yoga only" type. I looked around briefly.

Speaking of that does anyone know if this is true:
Yoga was a complete martial art and possibly still is in some parts of the world.
--any Hijackers want to take this?

 

[RRouuselot]

Why do all the large muscled guys get fat?

1) Anyway. I always heard that you should do cardio before Weights. Jean Claude's workout regimen was 30min of Cardio and 45 of Weights.
2) Some people say if you are spending 2 hours in the gym you are wasting your time. I think Arnold said that. Not sure.

1) You should do weights then cardio. Your muscles need glycogen as fuel and if you do cardio first you will burn a lot of glycogen and won’t have much for doing weights.



2) For most of us not on “roids” 45 minutes is the best since after that time most men have depleted their store of testosterone. If you are jacked on “roids” you can go all day long.

 

[tongsau]

I believe it was intended for those people that go to the gym and lazily go to each routine, stopping for water, chatting etc. 30 second break between sets, 1 min per exercise or something. To build up cardio endurance in weight training.