Martial Arts and Physical Fitness

[RRouuselot]

I believe it was intended for those people that go to the gym and lazily go to each routine, stopping for water, chatting etc. 30 second break between sets, 1 min per exercise or something. To build up cardio endurance in weight training.

I wouldn't consider those kinds of people as "working out" at all.

I think what you are talking about when you say building up cardio is called circuit training which is a lost different.
Even then you are not spending more than 45 minutes for actual training.

 

[RRouuselot]

I need a punching bag - don't know what that will do to my hands? Anyone know how to lower the effects of Arthritis? My hands hurt after typing this message.

Try swiming....or doing punches and kicks with just your head out of the wter......

 

[Colin_Linz]

Pool work is great. I used it a lot when trying to get back to training after a couple of bad spinal injuries I sustained. I had done a lot of swimming in the past, but my pool at home is only about 10 meters long so swimming was not very attractive. I used to stand in the deep end and practice kihon. Apart from damping the shock loads through my body it provided a degree of resistance through the range of motion, and the effect of the different currents acting on the moving limbs excited the stabilisers. I still do this form of training at times.

My body is not that flash anymore. I’ve had a couple of knee operations, broken clavicle, broken foot, broken fingers, crushed vertebrae (L1), one smashed disc and a couple of prolapsed discs and spinal surgery. Following the last spinal injury (the crushed L1) I decided that I shouldn’t workout anymore because of the pain that followed. I then found that as my fitness level decreased I would get pain from doing less and less. It was then I decided if I was going to have pain anyway, I may as well be doing something I enjoy and gain some fitness again. Arthritis is going to be something I will need to face, but staying fit and active will reduce its effects. If I stop training now I’m sure that Arthritis will set in rapidly. The old adage of, if you don’t use it, you will loose it is very true.

 

[TigerWoman]

I need a punching bag - don't know what that will do to my hands? Anyone know how to lower the effects of Arthritis? My hands hurt after typing this message.

I wouldn't do punching unless you put good gloves on. Take Glucosamine Sulfate--a better form than Glucosamine Chondroitin, get it from a reliable source (not Walmart). Also take MSM which helps with inflammation. Lessen inflammation and you will lessen damage. Glucosamine rebuilds cartilage, joint tissue. It mended my torn meniscus in my knee after years. It takes 3 months to get into your body for benefit. I have taken it for six years-twice a day. I wouldn't have been able to do TKD, jumping if not for it.

Check out South Beach diet. It worked for me and my husband. Lower carbs-whole grains not potatoes, white rice, pasta, lower fats, good fats-olive oil, eat veggies morning noon and night-little meat, little milk, little low fat cheese, nuts, little fruit/juice, lean meat-4-5 oz.serving. Have small treats occasionally-1-200 calorie range. Take the weight off joints and you will feel so much better and your joints will too. Take vitamins.

Keep exercising, low impact. I have a ellyptical which is good on knees, but cardio. Build up. Tai Chi would be good. Yoga has men's classes as well and younger instructors. Hey I'm 55 and teach kickboxing! I give options for higher impact and I do lower! You will need to change alot of your lifestyle. TW

 

[tongsau]

Try swiming....or doing punches and kicks with just your head out of the wter......

That's a good idea. Now I think I will build that large jacuzzi. Thanks Robert

 

[tongsau]

I have started to take an old friends advice:
Increase vegtables. Try to eat as little as possible 4 times a day, use energy drinks when capable of resisting hunger, and a little alcohol every day.
The dehydration effect of 1-3 drinks seems to be working pretty well.
It burns fat like I wouldn't believe. Probably not a good long term method though.

 

[Paul Genge]

There are people out there that believe that concentrating on exercise is essential for martial artists and there are those who believe that this is devisive and waists valuable time, that can be used for developing skill. The sad thing is that to some degree both sides of the argument are correct.

The first argument that it is essential to be very fit to use martial arts effectively is very valid to a point. Most traditional martial arts have some sort of exercise regime that is preparitory to the skills development. In some systems this can involve learning what is considered a hard style before being allowed to study a internal or more skill based system. Other styles have exercises that develop certain physical and phycological atributes that are essential to learning and using the style in combat.

The problem is when you either do not do this preparitory work (through laziness or lack of knowledge) or when you simply focus on this and never get onto the skill development.

There are very skillfull old men out there who wipe the floor with guys less than half their age. Often martial artists see these people and try to emulate them. They see old man movements and a lack of physical exercise and they follow suit because they want to be like these masters who defeat opponents without effort. What they do not see is the process of development that individual has gone through. The years of physcial exercises and drills that they underwent and the process of learnig to use less effort as their understanding increased.

People who do not put in the hard work are building castles without foundations, but people that get focused on fitness, speed and power loose sight of the possibilities that their bodies possess. When they get older they become frustrated when they no longer have the speed or fitness of youth and often give up to take up an activity more suitable to their age.

When you are a young man you have almost limitless energy. Often it gets in the way of your development because you put too much effort and force into your fighting style. The best way to stop this is to tire yourself out first. Exercise does this well. It also gives you the reserves thst can get you out of situations that your skill level cannot cope with.

Paul Genge
http://www.russianmartialart.org.uk

 

[Kempogeek]

I couldn't agree with OU Moose more. Im currently an orange belt in Kosho Ryu Kempo and a bit on the heavy side. I feel that I could be more fluent with my katas and kicks if I could lose some weight. I would like to be able to execute better side and back kicks. As I watch my sensei perform the different katas, he just flows through it. I hope that I can drop the pounds and be able to improve my performance. Best regards, Steve

 

[Kempogeek]

I couldn't agree with OU Moose more. Im currently an orange belt in Kosho Ryu Kempo and a bit on the heavy side. I feel that I could be more fluent with my katas and kicks if I could lose some weight. I would like to be able to execute better side and back kicks. As I watch my sensei perform the different katas, he just flows through it. I hope that I can drop the pounds and be able to improve my performance. Best regards, Steve

 

[still learning]

Hello, Martial arts and physcal fitness should go hand in hand. People expect you to be in good shape (especially the black belts). " Survival of the fitness", make sense slogan. Can you out last your attacker? Will he catch you if you run away?

Martial arts is suppose to develop the mind and body. There is a only yes for an answer for "martial arts and phycial fitness goes together.

As you get older of course your body slows down little, but not the mind. To be phycial shape for your age is all that is expected, make sense? ...'Aloha

 

[Deschain]

Hey I'm 55 and teach kickboxing!

You must be quite good then. What's your record?

 

[TigerWoman]

You must be quite good then. What's your record?

No, not that good... not ring kickboxing. Kick and box the bag, kickboxing. TW

 

[RRouuselot]

You can add this on to your regular martial art workout.



I do what is known as an ABC workout. Because you are working unrelated body parts and mixing them up each day you can do this work out about 6 days a week. This workout is on a 31 day cycle so I am not going to write it all out but this can give you and idea of how it looks.



A= 10 sets doing 10 reps at 60% of your 1 rep max (1rm)

B = 5 reps doing 3 sets at 85% of your 1rm

12 reps doing 3 sets at 70% of your 1rm

40 reps doing 3 sets at 40% of your 1rm



C = 5 reps doing 3 sets at 85% of your 1rm

12 reps doing 3 sets at 70% of your 1rm

40 reps doing 3 sets at 40% of your 1rm



So for example:

My bench 1 rep max (last time I checked) was 365 lbs., so if I were to do A workout I would do 219lbs. 10 reps for 10 sets.

If I were to do B workout it would be 85% = 295 lbs, 5 reps for 3 sets, then 70% = 255lbs 12 reps for 3 sets, then something like 40% = 145 lbs, 40 reps for 3 sets. Basically for the 40 reps most people can’t do it after doing the first part of the workout so just go to failure on each of the sets that say 40 reps.

The reasoning behind this workout is when doing 85% of your 1rm you are hitting the white muscle fiber which gives you power and size, the 70% of you 1rm portion gives you all around strength, the 40% of your 1rm portion hits the red muscle fibers for endurance.

Each day’s workout ends with 20 minutes of cardio using either an elliptical trainer, treadmill, stationary bike, or Cybex cross trainer. Doing more than 20 minutes is said to emaciate muscle so I wouldn’t do more than 20. Also, you don’t want to do the treadmill on days you hit your quads….trust me it sucks. On those days I use the bike.





Day 1:

Chest = workout A

Upper back = workout C

Biceps = workout A

Forearms = workout B

Abs = workout B

Calves = workout B



Day 2:

Shoulders = workout C

Lower Back = workout B

Triceps = workout B

Quads = workout C

Hamstrings = workout B



Day 3:

Chest = workout B

Biceps = workout B

Abs = workout C

Calves = workout C



Day 4:

Forearms = workout C

Traps = workout A



Day 5: Off



Day 6:

Chest = workout B

Upper Back = workout A

Biceps = workout C

Triceps = workout C

Hams = workout A

 

[47MartialMan]

This was the same discussion I had with a "fitness minded" student. The discussion developed when he and I seen out-of-shape Tai Ji and Karate instructors during a gym (health fitness type) workout.

Fitness is not a sole requirement.

Health is.

You can be healthy and not in great fitness (or vice versa)-per body structure.

Remember that jogger that published a famous book on running and died sometime later of a stroke? Hmmnnnn

 

[Tgace]

The Role Of Physical Preparation in Combat Disciplines

http://www.dragondoor.com/cstaley01.pdf

 

[lulflo]

I believe that physical fitness should be a byproduct of the philosophy of martial arts. It seems that focus, intent and hard work would drive an individual to be the very best they can be in the physical, mental and spiritual realms respectively. I think it is somewhat evident when you look at an idividual who trains in the martial arts, just how much they take in regarding their discipline in the physical, mental and spiritual. I am not saying that you can always tell a book by its cover, what I am saying is that in my experience, I can see a major transformation between folks who are serious about training and those who are not. There are always exceptions and I don't want to be offensive, but I think most people who read this probably understand where they are personally when they look deep down to figure out if they are doing everything they can be doing to maintain (i.e. diet, exercise, calistenics, weight training, cardio, etc).

I would say that martial arts and physical fitness do go hand in hand (as much as is possible for the individual).

Farang - Larry

 

[47MartialMan]

So one has to be in complete physical fitmess for defense?

 

[Shizen Shigoku]

I agree with most of the listed points in post #123 (http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showpost.php?p=337046&postcount=123)


My thinking is that the purpose of martial arts is to provide technical skills to compensate for a lack of physical fitness (so that the weak may defend themselves from the strong, e.g.), so my opinion is that yes, one can be a martial artist without being physically fit.

However I am confused by the compound question:

upnorthkyosa: "Do you think that Martial Arts and Physical Fitness should go hand in hand or do you think one can be a Martial Artist without being physically fit? Why?"

I don't think physical fitness is a requirement to martial arts ability, but I do believe the two go hand in hand.

Colin_Linz:
"
1. Fitness will improve your performance in martial arts.
2. Fitness will improve your life.
3. Training will make you fitter."

I agree with the above to a certain extent - it depends on the art/style.
I don't agree with point 4 (a standard of fitness is required) - again because it depends on the style.


I am further confused because the poll doesn't ask for an opinion on whether fitness is a requirement, but rather asks about a personal assessment of one's own fitness. I suppose the thread starter wanted to gather two sets of data - whatever.

 

[Colin_Linz]

Shizen Shigoku,

I structured those points badly. I was after feedback on what others thought regarding them. This thread has discussed a number of issues and I was trying to simply capture some of the themes and get specific responses. The issue regarding a fitness test was brought up by someone else. Personally I don’t see value in it when determining your classification as a martial artist. The range of skill sets are so different as is the physical abilities of various practitioners. For me it is more a matter of are they studying and trying to improve in their martial arts. Another theme was that you have to be fit to teach people. Students don’t like to be taught by fat lazy instructors. While I have never trained under a lazy instructor in Shorinji Kempo, I have trained under some larger ones. This has always been of benefit to me. Further to this are the old unfit Boxing trainers you see. They still seem to be able to teach their craft well. This concept has more to do with a student’s perception rather than the facts of wether the instructor can teach them or not.

 

[47MartialMan]

And that is the same way I view. One of my Chinese Shifus was well-rounded in the belly. But he moved and had power than most of the younger guys. Even out-wind many.