mar·riage

[Touch Of Death]

TOD,

I thought according to the laws of the Morman faith, you could not get a second wife unless you had the money and income to support the second wife without affecting the first wife or the children of the first marriage.

I know there are exceptions, I did not know this was the norm, can you provide an article on the web or some other source for me to review and learn from.

Thank You

Sorry, I only know this from a 20/20 episode. Perhaps you can look that site up, and search the archives to about four years ago. I've seen similar reports on others shows. I do live just below the place in canada where they all swap, but the name escapes me.
Sean

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I read recently that first cousins have been give a scientific (read genetic) okay.

Don't tease me like that...I got a first cousin who'se drop dead hot.
(also is a Netware sys-admin who makes 5x what I do....)

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Regarding that list of gays in history....

I'm somewhat uncomfortable with some lists because of potential inaccuracies. Julius Ceasar, for instance, is listed. I wasn't aware of his homosexuality or bisexuality. Hadrian, on the other hand, was clearly so (and I didn't notice him on the list)...as was Frederick the Great.

I take the lists with a grain of salt...hard to see at a casual glance which are serious and which arent.

Anybody note the incongruity between the Republican party's stance on states' rights and the proposition for the amendment regarding marriage? What ever happened to "let the states decide"? Republicans have been saying for years that the government that governs the best, governs the least. I guess they throw that out the window during election years.

Regards,

Steve

There was this little disagreement back in the 1860's that decided that states rights are subservient to the federal.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Don't tease me like that...I got a first cousin who'se drop dead hot.
(also is a Netware sys-admin who makes 5x what I do....)

Bob you made $3,000 dollars last year. Ithink she might make more then 5x

 

[Touch Of Death]

Don't tease me like that...I got a first cousin who'se drop dead hot.
(also is a Netware sys-admin who makes 5x what I do....)

If you look like her, chances are she thinks your drop dead hot as well; however, I suggest you adopt children.(ha ha) Incidently WA state will not let married cousins adopt children. Go figure.
Sean

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I understand these religions are waiting in the wings to see what happens with the gay marriage thing. If its allowed they plan to challange current restrictions; however, some of these communities that exist outside current law are simply nothing more than child molestation rings. Did you know they all have to go to Canada to swap there children to prevent inbreeding and, of course, prosecution? The husbands are usualy old men who can't support there families so we all pay for it with our taxes. Oy!
Sean

Yes, and many 'straight' 'christian' business men travel to SE Asia to have sex with underage, drugged children who are later killed because they are 'used up'.

We can use stereotypes, etc and empty thoughts.

Or we can back things up with facts. Please see the highlighted part of your quote. Can you back this up with some facts, and just how it relates to same-gender mariages?

 

[ShaolinWolf]

Ya know, I could start a whol arguement why Christians and Catholics are different...but what I'd like to say is, not insulting, READ!!!!...I restated that in a later post...I KNOW PLENTY OF CATHOLIC CHRISTIANS!!!!!!!!!...BUT!!!!BUT!!!!!!...You obviously don't know about how the Roman Catholic Church persecuted Christians...And, I'm not going to give you all the background because you can go look it up yourself and I don't have time to type up it all...I'm just saying, the Catholics back then were not Christians...Ever read about Martin Luther? NO NOT MARTIN LUTHER KING JR.!!!!!...Martin Luther, who nailed the ninety-five theses on the church in Wittenberg, Germany. Now, the man was originally Catholic, but he saw the light. I'm not going to explain the whole thing because you can look it up...Happened in 1517 A.D....The catholics of old were not the earliest form of Christianity...they were straight out killers of Christianity...OR well, they called us, who were heretics back then, heresy...and they said they were the only way to God...hmmm...and for the millionth time...Not all Catholics are Christians...I can't convince you of that, because Catholics have been calling themselves Christian since the beginning of Catholicism and killed off the True Christians...and Reading from the Bible is hearing God's Word...Mass reading come from some short book that could be read in no time...Reading from the Bible is of God...GOD DID NOT WRITE THE MASS BOOKS!!!!...And yeah, your going to be insulted by alot of this...

Also, Kaith, Did I just say that all were sinners and were going to hell and passing judgement...NO!, I meant it in the fact that those who are unsaved...also, I don't believe in Tolerating other "religions"...so, your going to have to deal with that...I only believe in one God, He who made Heaven and Earth...and is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit...Jesus Christ...And I do not believe in 500+...and yes this is my opinion, and what I believe to be true...

And like I said before...This topic ought to be locked...It got locked before and this kind of topic always gets locked eventually...

I just want to say...Christians are only Christians who accept Christ as their personal Lord and Saviour...I'm not getting into the whole subject, because then it's just going to be another theological debate that always happens over this subject...and yes, alot of my stuff has been hilter kilter...I'm sorry, but I typed too fast and I was tired, so I left stuff out...it was late...

 

[OULobo]

Don't tease me like that...I got a first cousin who'se drop dead hot.
(also is a Netware sys-admin who makes 5x what I do....)

Move to Kentucky and you're all set.

I personally have family in AL and if you go to the graveyard for our little town my mother can name our relation to every headstone, except four. Luckily none of my female cousins are really that attractive or in my age group.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Bob you made $3,000 dollars last year. Ithink she might make more then 5x

:shrug: :moon:

ok...so she makes 20x what I do.....
Shes still hot.

If you look like her, chances are she thinks your drop dead hot as well; however, I suggest you adopt children.(ha ha) Incidently WA state will not let married cousins adopt children. Go figure.

Dude, I said she was hot...not blind.
She don't look like me at all. (Sorta like Tracy Lords, but without the poutyness)

 

[Bob Hubbard]

SW, you're a little disjointed in the text, but ya make some good points in there.

The Christian religion traces back to the Roman Catholic church founded by 1 of Jesus' followers. It has split many, many times, with the resulting re-interpretation of the core. The RC also has its own writings which are accepted as holy. All trace to Jesus as savior.

Oddly enough, there is also at least 1 Jewish sect that traces to Jesus.

The Islamic faith also accepts Jesus as a holy man.

I just want to say...Christians are only Christians who accept Christ as their personal Lord and Saviour...I'm not getting into the whole subject, because then it's just going to be another theological debate that always happens over this subject

Agreed, on both points.

Also, Kaith, Did I just say that all were sinners and were going to hell and passing judgement...NO!, I meant it in the fact that those who are unsaved...also, I don't believe in Tolerating other "religions"...so, your going to have to deal with that...I only believe in one God, He who made Heaven and Earth...and is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit...Jesus Christ...And I do not believe in 500+...and yes this is my opinion, and what I believe to be true...

You are entitled to your opinion, and though I disagree, will defend your right to have it.

Peace.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Yes, and many 'straight' 'christian' business men travel to SE Asia to have sex with underage, drugged children who are later killed because they are 'used up'.

We can use stereotypes, etc and empty thoughts.

Or we can back things up with facts. Please see the highlighted part of your quote. Can you back this up with some facts, and just how it relates to same-gender mariages?

Isaw it on 20/20, and the isue is that they will challange the marriage laws once the same gender folk are allowed to marry. Here's a fact for you, I personaly know two women who are still married to multiple partners. there marriage documents say they willingly married the man and his wives; so, to file for divorce leagaly would prove they broke the law as well. The legalese states that they married a female as well the husband.
Sean

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Isaw it on 20/20, and the isue is that they will challange the marriage laws once the same gender folk are allowed to marry. Here's a fact for you, I personaly know two women who are still married to multiple partners. there marriage documents say they willingly married the man and his wives; so, to file for divorce leagaly would prove they broke the law as well. The legalese states that they married a female as well the husband.
Sean

Interesting mess that one.


Ok, heres a thought/tangent.

What is so important about getting married?

It declares your commitment to each other.
I can do that without a judge/priests ok/papers.

It allows for inheritance.
So will a well writen will.

It allows for sick-time / death benifits / grievence time.
So will a good savings plan, combined with a well thought out insurance policy.

It allows for children.
So will a well thought out will.

All of the benefits of "mariage" can be passed on by the use of a well writen will, living will, savings plan and insurance policies.

So, whats the big deal over the 'term'?

 

[OULobo]

Ya know, I could start a whol arguement why Christians and Catholics are different...but what I'd like to say is, not insulting, READ!!!!...I restated that in a later post...I KNOW PLENTY OF CATHOLIC CHRISTIANS!!!!!!!!!...BUT!!!!BUT!!!!!!...You obviously don't know about how the Roman Catholic Church persecuted Christians...And, I'm not going to give you all the background because you can go look it up yourself and I don't have time to type up it all...I'm just saying, the Catholics back then were not Christians...Ever read about Martin Luther? NO NOT MARTIN LUTHER KING JR.!!!!!...Martin Luther, who nailed the ninety-five theses on the church in Wittenberg, Germany. Now, the man was originally Catholic, but he saw the light. I'm not going to explain the whole thing because you can look it up...Happened in 1517 A.D....The catholics of old were not the earliest form of Christianity...they were straight out killers of Christianity...OR well, they called us, who were heretics back then, heresy...and they said they were the only way to God...hmmm...and for the millionth time...Not all Catholics are Christians...I can't convince you of that, because Catholics have been calling themselves Christian since the beginning of Catholicism and killed off the True Christians...and Reading from the Bible is hearing God's Word...Mass reading come from some short book that could be read in no time...Reading from the Bible is of God...GOD DID NOT WRITE THE MASS BOOKS!!!!...And yeah, your going to be insulted by alot of this...
QUOTE]


First off, I'm not insulted by you. I don't really take what you have to say very seriously, especially after the last post. Holy conspiracy theory batman! I seek to enlighten you about some misconceptions you seem to have adopted. No one has said that all Catholics are saints or that the church didn't go through dark times, but any establishment that lasts long enough or gains any power is bound to be fraught with problems, beaurocracy, corruption, bad decisions and evil people. If you are trying to tell me that Catholics persecute christians by excommunication or disapproval, then why is that different to what you as a christian are doing to Catholics. I never said Catholics were the oldest christians, I only said they were one of the oldest christian sects. Many of the apostles created churches that are called Catholic, but only one leads to the Roman / Bysentine Catholic lineage. The rest are still called catholic (Ethiopian Catholic, Egyptian Catholic, ect.). The "mass books" you speak of are called missles and are a collection of scripture readings straight from the bible along with the rituals, songs and prayers that the church has adopted over time. Consequently, you seem to have a problem with chants, mantras and ritual, but you already seem to have your own little mantra, "Christians are only Christians who accept Christ as their personal Lord and Saviour." How that is different I don't see. All Catholics accept Christ as their personal Lord and Saviour, they just choose to show it, practice it and worship his deed differently than you.

PS This is a debate and discussion and they only get locked if it gets out of hand, not if you don't like the discussion.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Ya know, I could start a whol arguement why Christians and Catholics are different...but what I'd like to say is, not insulting, READ!!!!...I restated that in a later post...I KNOW PLENTY OF CATHOLIC CHRISTIANS!!!!!!!!!...BUT!!!!BUT!!!!!!...You obviously don't know about how the Roman Catholic Church persecuted Christians...And, I'm not going to give you all the background because you can go look it up yourself and I don't have time to type up it all...I'm just saying, the Catholics back then were not Christians...Ever read about Martin Luther? NO NOT MARTIN LUTHER KING JR.!!!!!...Martin Luther, who nailed the ninety-five theses on the church in Wittenberg, Germany. Now, the man was originally Catholic, but he saw the light. I'm not going to explain the whole thing because you can look it up...Happened in 1517 A.D....The catholics of old were not the earliest form of Christianity...they were straight out killers of Christianity...OR well, they called us, who were heretics back then, heresy...and they said they were the only way to God...hmmm...and for the millionth time...Not all Catholics are Christians...I can't convince you of that, because Catholics have been calling themselves Christian since the beginning of Catholicism and killed off the True Christians...and Reading from the Bible is hearing God's Word...Mass reading come from some short book that could be read in no time...Reading from the Bible is of God...GOD DID NOT WRITE THE MASS BOOKS!!!!...And yeah, your going to be insulted by alot of this...

Also, Kaith, Did I just say that all were sinners and were going to hell and passing judgement...NO!, I meant it in the fact that those who are unsaved...also, I don't believe in Tolerating other "religions"...so, your going to have to deal with that...I only believe in one God, He who made Heaven and Earth...and is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit...Jesus Christ...And I do not believe in 500+...and yes this is my opinion, and what I believe to be true...

And like I said before...This topic ought to be locked...It got locked before and this kind of topic always gets locked eventually...

I just want to say...Christians are only Christians who accept Christ as their personal Lord and Saviour...I'm not getting into the whole subject, because then it's just going to be another theological debate that always happens over this subject...and yes, alot of my stuff has been hilter kilter...I'm sorry, but I typed too fast and I was tired, so I left stuff out...it was late...

Wolf,

Roman Catholics are the current religion based out of Rome with the Pope. This was based as Kaith put it on one of the Disciples of Jesus. There was a later split that became the Eastern Orthadox or Eastern Catholics with their own Popes as well. At one time there were three Popes, one in Constantinople, the other in Rome and another in Avinogne (Sp) France.

The followed from the teachings of Jesus Christ, they are Christians. There are other Churches that also sprung up from the other Disciples, in other areas around the Med Sea.

No matter how much I dislike the Catholics approach, I will still admit they are Christians. They may have been bad ones in the history of man, yet, they are.

Martin Luther the Father of Luthernism. That Sprng from Catholicism

John Wesley the Father of Methodism that fromteh Church of England that Split from Catholicism.

The Protestants of France or the Huergonauts (Sp) also split from the main body of church Catholicism.

Make a clear and detailed point on another thread if need be on why Catholics are not Christains. As I do not like the Catholic approach I would love to have some details. Yet, I do tolerate them. Even if I disagree.


Once again I ask which version of the Bible are you reading? PSST! God did not write the Bible either. There is a story that the Bible was chosen from a bunch of stories that were pilled up on an alter. Thsoe that fell off were not deemd worthy of being in the book. After a certain point the scrolls would start to fall off. So being the first person to put your favorite on the alter would kind of wait the out come. God may have inspired people to make those writings. He did not write the Bible.

Wolf, you directed a point to Kaith that I think should be at me. I believe that you are saying that I am going to hell. I believe that you are saying that I am wrong. By your words. You do not believe in tolerating other religions. This is fine, jsut remember the other Fundamentalists of other religions when they are shooting you or car bombing you for their beliefs as well. Maybe you are the one who sould get the grip and deal with it?


The Topic is not locked becuase people have not gotten to a point of repeating circular arguements or calling people names. Just because you do not like what is written here does not mean you get to lock it. Go read your book and tell people who you know I am going to Hell because I do not believe like you.

My Arguement on why everyone who has ever lived or will live is going to hell.

Ok, let us say there are only two groups out there.

Group A states "Our way is the only way, and if you do not follow us you are going to hell"

Group B makes a similar Statement.

So if you are not a part of group A or B you are going to hell.

If you are a part of Group B then Group A is condemning you to hell.
If you are a part of Group A then Group B is condemning you to hell.

So everyone goes to hell. No one wins.

 

[ShaolinWolf]

Ok, well, I'm sorry to have been so misunderstandable...I'm better with talking about it than writing about it...I will stop being in this thread because it's gotten out of hand and I'm just rambling on toward you people..

I'm not going to say anymore about Catholics...read the other stupid forum that just got started...LOL...It's just an issue that won't be resolved...I did not say that all Catholics are not Christian...I have heard from plenty of Catholics and such that believe a different doctrine than the one's you obviously know...AGAIN, I KNOW CATHOLIC CHRISTIANS!!!!...and I'm not getting into the Christian/Catholic debate...and what do you call Martin Luther of 1517? I'm not even asking...I'm not getting into this debate because I've gotten into so many theological debates pertaining to this and so many other things, that I'm frankly tired and that's not the reason I got on MartialTalk.com...so, no hard feelings and I hope you all don't have any against me...Sorry about what I said...But it's as I've learned from History...I've done alot of Religion Historical classes and I'm sorry that the lot of you think I'm nuts...anyways...I'll not get into anymore of this on Martial Talk unless its interesting and pertains differently...and another thing...you all can talk about gay/homosexual lifestyle...oh well...have fun...lol

 

[Rich Parsons]

Interesting mess that one.


Ok, heres a thought/tangent.

What is so important about getting married?

It declares your commitment to each other.
I can do that without a judge/priests ok/papers.

It allows for inheritance.
So will a well writen will.

It allows for sick-time / death benifits / grievence time.
So will a good savings plan, combined with a well thought out insurance policy.

It allows for children.
So will a well thought out will.

All of the benefits of "mariage" can be passed on by the use of a well writen will, living will, savings plan and insurance policies.

So, whats the big deal over the 'term'?

Bob, you can go spend hundreds if nto in the thousands for a living will, to get the same benefits that a $30 Marriage Certificate from the County gives you. As the widow and widower you automatically inherit all of your spouses assets. I know your point was why not allow it since you can get the equivalent today. I am just pointing out who today is a form of discrimination.

:asian:

 

[Cruentus]

Shaolin Wolf.

I am just going to say a few things, then I am done with the conversation.

First of all, I am Catholic. I am Christian also (not that there is a distinction, but I am clearing this up).

As a fellow Christian I will say that I don't like it when other Christians are judgemental, exclusive rather then inclusive, or willing to generalize hastily without proper tact or thought. You come across this way. Also your view on history comes accrossed as very narrow, as is your view on "the big picture" of religion in general.

The result with is you turn good people away from wanting to explore Christianity, and you fulfill the stereotypes that have kept people away from your faith. This is hardly Christian.

At some point you have to look in the mirror and decide if bantering in a way that only means to elevate yourself above others because of your faith is really worth turning people off and away from your faith. If I were you, I'd decide what's really important before typing. Perhaps with some thought, you'll realize that there is a different way to go about things, history isn't black and white, and perhaps there are a lot of answers and truths out there other then yours (that aren't condeming).

I think you have quite a lot of research to do yet.

If you want to talk further on the subject, you can PM me you ph# and we can talk.

Otherwise, I am done addressing you on the subject.

PAUL

 

[ShaolinWolf]

ALSO, YES GOD WROTE THE BIBLE!!!!...believe what you want, but contrary to popular belief, He wrote the Bible...He just had Human hands write it on paper...But if you want to believe what you want to believe so be it, it's my personal belief is that God wrote the Bible and so sayeth the Bible...So, I guess it's all my opinion...And another thing...how can you say I'm pushing my beliefs on you when I'm just stating my opinion...Also, how can you say your not?...hmmm?...your stating you opinion...but oh well, quote me all you want and tear up all my words...I don't care...besides I'm through with this thread because I'm getting off the subject of MA...I haven't really been talking to alot of people on here due to the fact that I've spent my time on this thread...so, let's get back to the issue of Homosexuality and just debate whether it's right or wrong...ok?...I mean we are totally off subject...

 

[Bob Hubbard]

ALSO, YES GOD WROTE THE BIBLE!!!!...believe what you want, but contrary to popular belief, He wrote the Bible...He just had Human hands write it on paper...But if you want to believe what you want to believe so be it, it's my personal belief is that God wrote the Bible and so sayeth the Bible...So, I guess it's all my opinion...And another thing...how can you say I'm pushing my beliefs on you when I'm just stating my opinion...Also, how can you say your not?...hmmm?...your stating you opinion...but oh well, quote me all you want and tear up all my words...I don't care...besides I'm through with this thread because I'm getting off the subject of MA...I haven't really been talking to alot of people on here due to the fact that I've spent my time on this thread...so, let's get back to the issue of Homosexuality and just debate whether it's right or wrong...ok?...I mean we are totally off subject...

2 quick notes, then I gotta get some work done (for a change) today.

1- Everyone has an opinion. Everyone is entitled to it.

2- Lets drop the religious debate here for now, and get back to the "gay mariage" one.

Thanks.

 

[Rich Parsons]

ALSO, YES GOD WROTE THE BIBLE!!!!...believe what you want, but contrary to popular belief, He wrote the Bible...He just had Human hands write it on paper...But if you want to believe what you want to believe so be it, it's my personal belief is that God wrote the Bible and so sayeth the Bible...So, I guess it's all my opinion...And another thing...how can you say I'm pushing my beliefs on you when I'm just stating my opinion...Also, how can you say your not?...hmmm?...your stating you opinion...but oh well, quote me all you want and tear up all my words...I don't care...besides I'm through with this thread because I'm getting off the subject of MA...I haven't really been talking to alot of people on here due to the fact that I've spent my time on this thread...so, let's get back to the issue of Homosexuality and just debate whether it's right or wrong...ok?...I mean we are totally off subject...

Wolf,

I know you said you were done.

If you state that I believe that God wrote the Bible. I let thsi stand as your belief. If you YELL!!!! GOD WROTE THE BIBLE!!!! you come across as being a religious fanatic. Just my opinion.

Now as to your opinion and my Opinion. You opinion allows for you to be right and for be to go to hell.

My Opinion allows for you to express your opinion, and in the end the Creator and greater power will decide if one or both or neither of us is correct. You see, I do not condemn you. You have only your way or the highway. You insist that it is correct, as opposed to stating this is what I believe to be true. I allow for the fact that I might be wrong.

That sir is the difference between your presentation here and mine. I present my opinion, and it upsets you because it is not yours. You yell at me and others. If you were to yell at me in person I would ask you to calm down. If you continued I would wait until you were done and then ask you not do it again. If you continued still, I might start yelling back. I can be loud also. I can be childish and make a scene, and not care. Take a word of advice from PAUL and study how you make your presentations. If they are the same in person, you might get a worse of a response. Including laughter, and or violence.

Peace and I hope you can continue to grow from the light you have found.
:asian: