mar·riage

[Bob Hubbard]

Interesting post....just a small note:

Christians have not been around since the beginning of time....Even going off the timeline I learned in my bible study classes, there have been humans running around this here ball-o-mud for longer than the 2030 recorded years since Christs birth. (I get my date from biblical schollars, not the wall calendar, case anyone was wondering.)

Jews are another story...its what? Year 5764?

My own religion pre-dates both by a bit as well....

As to sex.... I believe humans and dolphins are 2 species that can do it for pleasure, not just 'reproduction'.

 

[ShaolinWolf]

So, we shouldn't descriminate the Nazi's?...lol...alrighty then. I just see it as the Human rights and freedom is kind of been tampered and has so many holes. When will the demoraliztion stop? When the world comes to an end. And I think that lesbian, gay, and bi is just wrong. So, fine call it descrimination, but I don't seriously think that even Animals of the same sex should hump each other, so why should we. I mean if even Animals, the one's without souls, got it right and run on instinct of instillation rather than the immoral instinct called sin, why shouldn't we run on real instinct and not Calvinism...Oh he was born Gay, or she was born Straight or she was born to go to hell...well then what's the point of living if you know the outcome. Why are Christians here if the map is made and him him, her, him, her go to hell and her, him, him, her got to heaven?...I think that Christianity and spreading the Gospel have no reason with Calvanism. Which is a fake belief made up by so many fallible men. The only True Religion(which I have to use the word religion) is the one made by THE GOD, fallible is man, infallible is God! Calvanism is a feeble attempt to rectify fallible man, which, when man tries to fix something, it usually gets out of the frying pan and into the fire, as we've seen with the world today.

 

[ShaolinWolf]

I don't mean Christianity as been around since the dawn of time...it's just that The Israelites were "Christians" before Christ, only with rules too strict. And then they split into two Group...The original Branch became Jews and the other Branch became Christians, which the Jews wanted exterminated. I don't mean that Christianity has been around in the B.C. era...Sorry about that.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

The concept of mariage as "man & wife" is recent. In the past, it was to control lines of heritage, domination and government succession.

Not love. Not God.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Doing some digging...found interesting stuff...

Famous GLB People in History
You're in Good Company!

"Within the typical secondary school curriculum, homosexuals do not exist. They are 'nonpersons' in the finest Stalinist sense. They have fought no battles, held no offices, explored nowhere, written no literature, built nothing, invented nothing and solved no equations. The lesson to the heterosexual student is abundantly clear: homosexuals do nothing of consequence. To the homosexual student, the message has even greater power: no one who has ever felt as you do has done anything worth mentioning."
-Gerald Unks, editor, The Gay Teen, p. 5.

More information and sources

Alexander the Great
*Macedonian Ruler, 300 B.C.
Socrates
*Greek Philosopher, 400 B.C.
Sappho
*Greek Woman Poet, 600 B.C.
Hadrian
*Roman Emperor, 1st-2nd c.
Richard the Lionhearted
*English King, 12th c.
Saladin
*Sultan of Egypt and Syria
Desiderius Erasmus
*Dutch Monk, Philosopher
Francis Bacon
*English statesman, author
Frederick the Great
*King of Prussia
Lord Byron
*English poet, 18th c.
Walt Whitman
*U.S. poet, author, 19th c.
Oscar Wilde
*Irish author, 19th c.
Marcel Proust
*French author, 20th c.
Colette
*French author, 20th c.
Gertrude Stein
*U.S. poet, author, 20th c.
Alice B. Toklas
*U.S. author, 20th c.
Federico Garcia Lorca
*Spanish author, 20th c.
Cole Porter
*U.S. composer, 20th c.
Virginia Woolf
*English author, 20th c.
Leonard Bernstein
*U.S. composer, 20th c.
Pope Julius III
*1550-1555
T.E. Lawrence
*English soldier, author, 20th c.
Jean Cocteau
*French writer, director, 20th c.
Charles Laughton
*English actor, 20th c.
Marguerite Yourcenar
*Belgian author, 20th c.
Tennessee Williams
*U.S. Playwright, 20th c.
James Baldwin
*U.S. author, 20th c.
Andy Warhol
*U.S. artist, 20th c.
Michelangelo
*Italian artist, 15th c.
Leonardo Da Vinci
*Ital. Artist, scientist, 15th c.
Christopher Marlowe
*Eng. Playwright, 16th c.
Herman Melville
*U.S. author, 19th c.
Horatio Alger, Jr.
*U.S. author, 19th c.
Tchaikovsky
*Russian composer, 19th c.
Willa Cather
*U.S. author, 19th c.
Amy Lowell
*U.S. author, 19th & 20th c.
E.M. Forster
*English author, 20th c.
John M. Keynes
*English economist, 20th c.
Ludwig Wittgenstein
*Australian mathematician, 20th c.
Bessie Smith
*U.S. singer, 20th c.
Noel Coward
*English playwright, 20th c.
Christopher Isherwood
*English author, 20th c.
Pier Paolo Pasolini
*Italian film director, 20th c.
Yukio Mishima
*Japanese author, 20th c.
Eleanor Roosevelt
*U.S. stateswoman, 20th c.
Julius Caesar
*Roman Emperor, 100-44 B.C.
Augustus Caesar
*Roman Emperor
Harvey Milk
*U.S. politician, 20th c.
Bayard Rustin
*U.S. Civil Rights activist, 20th c.
James I
*English King, 16th-17th c.
Queen Anne
*English Queen, 18th c.
Marie Antoinette
*French Empress, 18th c.
Melissa Etheridge
*U.S. Rock Star, 20th c.
Pope Benedict IX
*1032-1044
Mary Sarton
*U.S. author, 20th c.
Edna Ferber
*U.S. author, 20th c.
Elton John
*English Rock Star, 20th c.
Margaret Fuller
*U.S. writer, educator, 20th c.
Montezuma II
*Aztec ruler, 16th c.
Peter the Great
*Russian Czar, 17th-18th c.
Langston Hughes
*U.S. author, 20th c.
Pope John XII
*955-964
Madame de Stael
*French writer, 17th-18th c.
Martina Navratilova
*U.S. tennis star, 20th c.
Greg Louganis
*U.S. Olympic swimmer, 20th c.
Billie Jean King
*U.S. tennis star, 20th c.
Roberta Achtenburg
*U.S. politician, 20th c.
Barney Frank
*U.S. Congressman, 20th c.
Gerry Studds
*U.S. Congressman, 20th c.
Hans Christian Andersen
*Danish author, 19th c.
Tom Dooley
*U.S. M.D. missionary, 20th c.
J. Edgar Hoover
*U.S. director of the FBI., 20th c.
Frida Kahlo
*Mexican artist, 20th c.
Suleiman the Magnificent
*Ottoman ruler, 15th c.
Rock Hudson
*U.S. actor, 20th c.
Sor Juana Ines de la Cruz
*Mexican author, 16th c.
Ralph Waldo Emerson
*U.S. author, 19th c.
Candace Gingrich
*Gay Rights activist, 20th c.
Margarethe Cammermeyer
*U.S. Army Colonel, 20th c.
Zoe Dunning
*U.S. Military Reservist, 20th c.
Tom Waddel
*U.S. M.D., Olympic star, 20th c.
Kate Millet
*U.S. author, 20th c.
Janis Joplin
*U.S. singer, 20th c.
Rudolf Nuryev
*Russian dancer, 20th c.
Waslaw Nijinsky
*Russian dancer, 20th c.
Ernst Röhm
*German Nazi leader, 20th c.
Dag Hammerskjold
*Swedish UN Secretary, 209th c.
Aristotle
*Greek philosopher, 384-322 B.C.
Paula Gunn Allen
*Native American author, 20th c.
Angela Davis
*U.S. political activist, 20th c.
June Jordan
*U.S. author, activist, 20th c.
Rainer Maria Rilke
*German poet, 20th c.
James Dean
*U.S. actor, 20th c.
Montgomery Clift
*U.S. actor, 20th c.
Baron VonSteuben
*German General, Valley Forge
Edward II
*English King, 14th c.

http://www.lambda.org/famous.htm


The Bible contains six admonishments to homosexuals and 362 admonishments to heterosexuals. That doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals. It's just that they need more supervision. ~ Lynn Lavner

 

[Rich Parsons]

Well, first off, I'd like to ask a Question, which I will leave open, yet give my opinion...you say that Church and State should be separate, but why? I mean if America were not founded by such great, Christian Men and Women, then where would we be? Without the morals laid down by our founding fathers, we'd be somewhere between England and the Phillipines. Last time I checked, the phillipines was not the nicest place to be. Nearly everybody carries at least one knife there, and it's pretty much guerilla and such, aside from the assasinations of people who tick others off and this goes on every day over there. But America: Well, I can't say its too much different other than if you get caught, you get busted big time. And we aren't allowed legally to carry Butterfly knives(balisong) around in alot of states, heck plenty of states have rules to the size and such.

The Pilgrims were puritans and religious fundamentalists. (1620)

Those in Jamestown Virginia were business men. (1609)

The PI is not a walking talking gun fight. In the Southern Islands were there is a strong Islamic presence, there is support for anti-american actions including kidnapping and terroist acts.

And what does, the PI have to do with laws and rights in the U.S.A.?

Another issue that bothers me that a few of you brought up is this: Christianity and Catholicism is not the same thing! They believe that you can't talk to God if you have done sins and you have to go to confessional to ask for forgiveness, then, as I've seen with plenty of people I know from Catholic churches, they go out and party, be promiscuous and such, then go back and ask for forgiveness. What the heck is the dividing line between the world and a large majority of Catholics? But then again, Christians basically can do the same thing, but the difference is, a true Faithful Christian will try to turn away from the sin and drive on a straighter path. And for those of you who call Christians bigots and fundamentalists...I don't think you have a right to call us that. First off, do you seriously look into it or just say, "well, they look like religious whackos like my grandma used to be"? I mean, Christianity seriously isn't just chanting and junk and isn't just reading God's Word and just sitting around acting austere and all. Not at all. Heck, Catholic monks do that, aside from constantly reading the Bible.

Catholics are Christians. Christians is the larger group. Catholics is a sub-sect. Such as Baptist.

Another issue: you say they were just catholics and fundamentalists that came over from the European continent? Hmmm, then where do I fit in? I mean, some people seriously just think Catholics and Christians are the same thing. First off, I do not go to Mass and read from some manuscript over and over and over. Then, I don't believe that the Fear of God is the thing that should greatly govern my life. It's the Love of God. Not Fear. Sure there is the Fear of God, but God Love's us like a father. 'Nuff Said.

Your religious beliefs are yours. You are not only allowed to ahve them they are protected. You can believe in them all you want and not be discriminated against.

Anyways, getting onto the subject topic: You think that bigots just made this Bible and put in junk that would make it unfair for people to live out their sexual fantasies, which, in my mind, is sick to be, umm, yeah, a guy. Since I'm a guy, I'd rather not be doing that with a guy. It's just totally sick and wrong. Why do you think everything "fits", aside from your "butt" stuff. Yuck. And along with that, why would you have that kind of sex. I mean Abstinance is the way, so is that what you just want to get away with? Have second rate and not get preg or anything? STDs are still transmitted that way. Even people who have never had sex get diseases that way due to the fact that fecal matter has disease and rots. Why risk such a thing as that aside from the other ways? I mean the safest way, well, is abstenance. Why risk it, get married and still go through the fact that you could get STDs?

Abstenance is the best and safest way.
Did you know that in countries where sex education and the human body is not a taboo, the rate of people being virgins at 16 his higher then the U.S.A. Did you know it is also the higher for those getting married as adults. It is not forbidden fruit.

The practice has been around for eons. The birth place of Christianity was ripe with it. It was natural back then. Rules / laws were created to help better society.

Let me ask you do wear clothes of blended materials?
Do you beat your wife?

And back to the church and state issue. Evolution. Not getting into how wrong it is and I don't want this topic swayed to that, but that's a belief in itself. Why do Christian kids in Public School have to learn it? I mean why can't we learn Creationism? The junk that is in those books are balony, yet it's a belief that is pressed on everyone, whether they believe it or not. It's like taking some sort of create-your-own-religion-that's-not-real-system. And that's Separation of Church and State. uh-huh. Sure it is. And you people want to believe that we came from some stupid little amoeba? Bah. What are the chances that all thos amoebas could possibly evolve into a being every time? 1 in in a googleplex(a 1 with 100 zeroes after it). Even more than that. Heck 1 in an infinity. And banning Prayer from school? What is everyone so afraid of? Oh are Christians going to blow up the schools planning in prayer?

Prayer in school. You say a prayer, yet the Catholics require a Father present for it to mean anythign, and is an insult to them. It is an insult to the Buddist and the Muslims and to ..., . Do we allow a prayer for each religion and its different sects? You would need the whole school week just to get through the first prayer to cover the complete list.

As to creationism, well that has been discussed elsewhere search for it.

So, what you people want is not a structured government, but a I want it my way government and I wish that they would cater to the people, but only if it fits my needs, or makes everybody happy. The government isn't some system that gives people their every want and desire. Sex is a gift from God, but humankind has made it a joke. On TV, Magazines, movies, etc.

God? Which one? Dagda? You believe it is a gift. Good for you. Others do not, and have the right to believe different then you do.

As to the government for only me. I do not think so. What is best for society. That is the roll of Government. Society as a whole decides what is ethical. We as individuals pull from our values to decide what is ethical. Those values may be influenced by religious morals. Yet, to have it be that I must pay homage to your god, then I have a problem. Your god is not my god. End of the story. The government needs to do its best to meet the needs of the people. This is done through representation, and by elections to gain teh voice of the people.

As to creationism in school, you have the right to put your child into a private school that teachs the beliefs you wish. And is I remember this properly, it is a couple of weeks in the 6th ot 7th grade and again in the 10th grade for a couple of weeks. As opposesd to being forced every day to listen to someone pray and insult me and my religion by their actions.

The biggest issue here is that everyone is born into the world with the view that there are 4 sexes basically. Heterosexual male, heterosexual female, homsexual male, and lesbian. Well, back 50 years ago people never publicized gays. Heck, the words gay and queer meant cool words. Gay meant happy. Queer meant strange and unusual. I liked the word queer when I first heard it, and then my mom told me what it meant and I was like, man that sucks. And it's funny that gays remind me of a sect or cult. They act like they have been persecuted and such and then they go an bash the Christians for saying things against them. And then they go and get more help when nobody will go along with them and bash the Christians. Man, that's pathetic.

And it is pathetic that Christians throw the first stone and or beat or discriminate against those that are different from them. Like burning witches for the simple fact that they had a cat and knew what hebs would help heal common ailments. Yet, the Christians of this country went on witch hunts.

The Christians of this country burned crosses into the free black mans yards to intimidate them to leave. The christians of this country bought and sold slaves and kept indentured servents.


Gay still means happy.

Queer still means strange or a little different. They have slang terms as well.
Did you know in Quebec, LaCross is slang for sex. The new Buick LaCross was almost renamed just for that fact.

Homosexuals were discriminated against in this country by the religious fundamentalists.

Christians have been around since the beginning of time, and we are here to stay. God is on our side, and we don't have to worry about the flame leaving this earth. But homosexual lifestyle. It will only lead to more acts of demoralization. This world gets worse and worse. I love being a Christian and wouldn't change knowing Christ as my personal LORD AND SAVIOUR! I can't see through the fog of evil in this world without the LIGHT. I can't say too much more, because it looks like rambling. People will always think of others who think differently as bigots. But I like to think of those who are thought of as bigots and not Christians as lost and wide open to the Love of God.

Beginning of time was before the time of Christ. Unless of course you mean in spirit? yet, then there were no followers to be called Christians.

God is on your side? I thought he was on my side. Want to know why I know he is on my side. I hit harder then most people. That menas I can prove that God is on my side. Because I can intimidate you into saying that My God is the God.

Acts of Demoralization, such as mass massacres in the crusades? Such as today by byuing radio time to flood the air waves of the Mid East telling all the Jews and Muslims that they are heathens and going to hell. That the only way is their Christian Way. Yet, there are mutliple radio stations with different messages. No wonder why they hate us for threatening their culture. We cannot even keep it here in our country, peopel give money from this country for these acts. Talk about demoralization.


I am glad that you have found your Light and your God. Now just let me and others live our own lives with out you telling us why we are wrong.

I have found my own Light. I have also found my own inner peace.

Just so you know, I was raised 7th Day Adventists. My grandmother told me I was not allowed to go to church anymore. I also could not beleive in God. Why? Because I knew too much about Atoms and Quarks and Chemistry and Science. There is no way for anyone to know God and to know science both. Yet teh beauty of faith based religons you make your belief, with out proof. Hence Faith. Yet, when people are so closed minded, not to open allow growth or change, I have a problem.

Oh Yeah I am a Hetro Sexual Male, who appreciates the beauty of the Female body. I just not insist that my way is the only way. I understand that I may not know they mind of God. I may nto know the creators plans. Therefore I will not judge those for being different from me. I applaud it for a chance to learn and to grow.

:asian:

 

[ShaolinWolf]

Oh, but you have solely missed the point. I don't mean it as that its to be pressured on you. It's your Choice...Heaven or Hell...I made my choice. And just to say one thing. Not all the Pilgrims were fundamentalists...and seriously what is your version of a fundamentalist? I've heard many that don't make alot of sense...


Also, did I say that my God is on my side under another category...and don't go putting words into my mouth that I didn't say. I said I'm a Christian. Wow, then I must worship Buddha*sarcastic* or Dagda. Now that was a profound statement. No, Christians(Me) worship Christ, hence the name Christians...and the True Catholic Church calls itself Christian, but how far? Do they accept Christ as their PERSONAL Lord and Saviour? or do they just say stuff...yeah, I thought so... And the truth about Christianity is the fact that Jesus Christ is the common denominator and that those who accept him as personal Lord and Saviour and believe that they have sinned and ask for forgiveness and acknowledge that Christ Died for them is the main part.

Yeah, it's my personal Beliefs, but why not just accept that I stated everything...how can I push my beliefs on you if this is on the internet and I state that I believe in this or that. Yo can just ignore it. And, hmmm...I think your pushing your personal beliefs on me now, huh?...nah...your just berating me by pushing your personal beliefs on...whoops that's the same thing, huh?...yeah, I thought so...

Fallible is man, yet infallible is the Lord Almighty, maker of Heaven and Earth.
I don't care what your "religion" is as long as you have the common denominator and acknowledge this God. Otherwise, our "religions" will conflict and it will be an ongoing debate and arguement that will last til the end of time...and to go with the comment a few posts back...will I be ready for the holocaust? Hmmm...I'm ready, I'm set, I die, I go home sooner...What about you?

 

[ShaolinWolf]

And also, I know some of the Creator's plans...I mean duh, what's the Bible for? He said this and that...I just stated it...I mean, I'm not descriminating...just saying the truth and if you get convicted and take up your sword and rally, go ahead...But you say you don't know the Creator's plans. Well, the Word clearly states what's right and wrong, you just gotta read it. And don't skip parts, otherwise you'll only get it wrong. It clearly states that Homosexual is wrong and Heterosexual is Right....And right now I'm thinking this topic is going to stay heated...no wonder they locked it before...LOL




Also side note: you said homage is to my God is not your god...well I never said pay homage or anything of the sort, did I? Again, don't put words in my mouth that I didn't type...and don't misinterpret while reading in between the lines...

Also...you said gay and queer mean the same thing now as they did then along side the slang...ummm no...they don't...you say those words in a room full of people and I guarantee they will react with the thoughts of homosexual...I GUARANTEE IT...and the LaCrosse thing...ummm, it's an accepted and official sport...so it doesn't matter what it means, people are playing it at this very moment...doesn't matter what it means in Canada...that's Canada, not America...Language barrier...

 

[rmcrobertson]

I want to thank, "Shaolin Wolf," for stating his (funny how it's mostly guys who get all hot and bothered about gay people, isn't it?) "case," in a way that perfectly demonstrates precisely why the Government has no business whatsoever deciding who may and may not get married. But hey, to heck with that wacky Constitution and those silly guarantees of religious freedom.

Loved the all-too-typical bit about how Catholics aren't real Christians, too.

Congratulations on a complete violation of the best traditions of American religious tolerance as handed down from Roger Williams, Anne Hutchinson, the Quakers, Jefferson (who happened to be a Deist...look it up) and the rest, Emerson and all those guys, Dorothy Day, and so many others....congrats.

Give me Mark Twain's religious vision and moral code any day...and three slaps with a wet copy of, "Extract From Captain Stormfield's Visit to Heaven."

 

[OULobo]

I think that Mr. Wolf needs to update and re-examine his facts and possibly then his opinions on the Roman, or any for that matter, Catholic Church. Some statements he has made have been off-base, naive, or assumptive. If Catholics are fundamentalists, then how can you blame us for going out and having a good time.

 

[michaeledward]

Does anyone else find it totally scary that the United States of America seems to be on the path of becoming a 'Fundamentalist' society? After the president's announcement yesterday, and reading ShoalinWolf's comments ... I see my beloved country becoming a place where 'Christian Fundamentalist Terrorists' can take root and force their beliefs on to society.

It calls to mind a famous phrase:

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

Or maybe it's just me - Mike

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Last I checked, there were somewhere in the neighborhood of 500+ gods/godesses listed. How do we know which is the right one?

As to references against homosexuality in the Christian Bible, considering the discrepencies between printings, versions and translations, can someone provide references? I also have to ask if these references are in the "Official" editions (4 gospel versions), or also found in the other gospels recently discovered? (ala gospel of mary.)


The constitution is a document that except for 1 repealed instance grants rights and privilages. The concept of "Marrage" as has been argued is a religious one, and therefore doesnot belong defined in the constitution. The fact that many of the founders were christian is valid....as is the fact that many were not. -They- in their wisdom wrote in the seperation of Church/State so that abuses such as this demand by GWB would not stand.

Sometimes, I think they were more enlightened back then....I'd move, but theres the joint problems of the space/time continuum...oh year, and that being burned as a witch thing.....

 

[ShaolinWolf]

I didn't mean that I don't know that some catholics are Christians...and Being a Christian means accepting Christ as PErsonal Lord and Saviour...geez...you people keep issing stuff...and also,I know that THe God, the Creator, Maker of Heaven and Earth is the true God. He answers prayers and is Faithful.
but...catholics have it wrong sometimes too...

And I want to thank "rmcrobertson" and "OULobo" for being assumptive also. Again people love putting words in the mouths of others so they look good. Also, What is your definition of a good time, Lobo? You just said good time, so that can mean alot of things. And what do you want, freedom to do whatever you want int this country. I think you both have demostrated wha it takes to ovethrow the government and make it communist...lol...

 

[Rich Parsons]

Oh, but you have solely missed the point. I don't mean it as that its to be pressured on you. It's your Choice...Heaven or Hell...I made my choice. And just to say one thing. Not all the Pilgrims were fundamentalists...and seriously what is your version of a fundamentalist? I've heard many that don't make alot of sense...


Also, did I say that my God is on my side under another category...and don't go putting words into my mouth that I didn't say. I said I'm a Christian. Wow, then I must worship Buddha*sarcastic* or Dagda. Now that was a profound statement. No, Christians(Me) worship Christ, hence the name Christians...and the True Catholic Church calls itself Christian, but how far? Do they accept Christ as their PERSONAL Lord and Saviour? or do they just say stuff...yeah, I thought so... And the truth about Christianity is the fact that Jesus Christ is the common denominator and that those who accept him as personal Lord and Saviour and believe that they have sinned and ask for forgiveness and acknowledge that Christ Died for them is the main part.

Yeah, it's my personal Beliefs, but why not just accept that I stated everything...how can I push my beliefs on you if this is on the internet and I state that I believe in this or that. Yo can just ignore it. And, hmmm...I think your pushing your personal beliefs on me now, huh?...nah...your just berating me by pushing your personal beliefs on...whoops that's the same thing, huh?...yeah, I thought so...

Fallible is man, yet infallible is the Lord Almighty, maker of Heaven and Earth.
I don't care what your "religion" is as long as you have the common denominator and acknowledge this God. Otherwise, our "religions" will conflict and it will be an ongoing debate and arguement that will last til the end of time...and to go with the comment a few posts back...will I be ready for the holocaust? Hmmm...I'm ready, I'm set, I die, I go home sooner...What about you?

Wolf,

I am glad you have found God.

I am glad you can present your opinions here.

You present them in the manner that only you are correct. Comments like
"God is on my side" and " It's your Choice...Heaven or Hell...I made my choice." and "or do they just say stuff...yeah, I thought so".

You have passed judgement on me without know me. Not very Christian in my book.

You see, God is on My side also. And since be both believe maybe we should go to war and kill each other and our families. Now that would be a real way to honor you beliefs.


"I think your pushing your personal beliefs on me now, huh?...nah...your just berating me by pushing your personal beliefs on...whoops that's the same thing, huh?...yeah, I thought so..."

So, it is ok for you to pushs your beliefs on me and to pass judegment on me and to tell me i am going to Hell. And the God is not on my side but yours? And I am the one forcing my beliefs on you?

No, I asked you not to insist that your beliefs be mine. To not present your beliefs, this way, if you do not wish to get replies. There are much more humble and Christian ways to present you belief without insulting me and everyone else who does not attend your church.

That is all I was saying. Think before you pass judgement on me and others?

As to living my life. I try not to pass judgement. I live my life, and give money to friends and family when they are in need. I do not expect repayment. I could have much more material items, if I was more greedy and did not give it away. Yet, I going to hell because I do not bow down on the same knee as you, and I do not say the same phrase as you. I live my life the best I can. I do not practice religion, for I find it to be very hypocritical, in my opinion.

Like I said, I am glad you are happy. I am glad you have been able to find your guiding light. Live your life. Enjoy it with out condemning me for being a hetrosexual male who abstains and not passing judegement on others? I let the creator or God or Jesus do that. I am too busy just trying to be me.


As to being in a state of Grace. I will let the power to be determine of that is the case. I will not be arrogant and make the statment that I am in a state o grace based upon some ceremony or based upon the word of some other human. I live my life the way I do. And in the end I will see if it was good enough to ascend.


With Respect

 

[Rich Parsons]

And also, I know some of the Creator's plans...I mean duh, what's the Bible for? He said this and that...I just stated it...I mean, I'm not descriminating...just saying the truth and if you get convicted and take up your sword and rally, go ahead...But you say you don't know the Creator's plans. Well, the Word clearly states what's right and wrong, you just gotta read it. And don't skip parts, otherwise you'll only get it wrong. It clearly states that Homosexual is wrong and Heterosexual is Right....And right now I'm thinking this topic is going to stay heated...no wonder they locked it before...LOL

Which version of the Bible? The actual hand written scrolls? The King James version that was prayed upon in the 16th century and became the new bases
for the English Language?

Do you eat meat on Friday? This is a sin. Do you fast compeltely on the Sabbath? That being from Friday at Sunset to Saturday on Sunset? This is a
sin not to fast. It is alos a sin to work. This is in the bible as well. Do you practice the whole bible or only the parts you want?

"I mean, I'm not descriminating...just saying the truth and if you get convicted and take up your sword and rally, go ahead."

You have passed judement on me again. You do not know the path I have walked nor the path I am walking. You do not know the numbers of Ministers I count as friends? You know nothing, ok very little, about me and yet you can stand back and state you are right and I am wrong. Please, do not pass judgement on me. Do not preach to me about you knowing and I do not.

Please quote me the Chapter and Verse where Homosexuality is incorrect?
Also read the rest of the page. I want to know wat you are quoting so we can review it and discuss it. Thank You

Also side note: you said homage is to my God is not your god...well I never said pay homage or anything of the sort, did I? Again, don't put words in my mouth that I didn't type...and don't misinterpret while reading in between the lines...

Also...you said gay and queer mean the same thing now as they did then along side the slang...ummm no...they don't...you say those words in a room full of people and I guarantee they will react with the thoughts of homosexual...I GUARANTEE IT...and the LaCrosse thing...ummm, it's an accepted and official sport...so it doesn't matter what it means, people are playing it at this very moment...doesn't matter what it means in Canada...that's Canada, not America...Language barrier...

Ok so Canada is different then that proves you have not point wiht the PI and England?

America is America. You are making judegements, and by making those judegements you are stating that the only way is to do it your way, or to pay homage to your God. Logic My Friend. No matter if you said it or not. This is what follows from your points.

Also words change over time. They always have. Nimrod today is a negative, yet, he was a great hunter who provided for his family.

 

[MisterMike]

What gets me is that people come crawling out of the woodwork calling Christians Bible Thumpers, Pimitives, Fundamentalists, and hypocrites.

Just shows the level of ignorance, hatred towards Christians which is rarely publicized, and overall downward trend in society, even on this board which is representative of the "good 'ol" martial arts practitioners/teachers.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Does anyone else find it totally scary that the United States of America seems to be on the path of becoming a 'Fundamentalist' society? After the president's announcement yesterday, and reading ShoalinWolf's comments ... I see my beloved country becoming a place where 'Christian Fundamentalist Terrorists' can take root and force their beliefs on to society.

It calls to mind a famous phrase:

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

Or maybe it's just me - Mike

Mike,

Well the problem is that we have a revolution coming this fall. It may be bloodless and unlike other countries, Yet it still is a revolution. I wish everyone would get out and vote. I know I have skills and can go to other countries if needed. If this country that my family as has been in for 383 years not including the American Indian heritage, I would be willing to leave. Maybe Canada, or NZ or Austrialia? Oh Well, I try not to make politcal issues religious issues. Yet, when the poloticians make it their campaign you have no choice.

Thank You

 

[MisterMike]

OK..and now for a little Evangelism.

I'd like anyone instersted to get the book "The Purpose Driven Life." It made the NYT's best seller list - yes, imagine that, a secular book list.

It is very well written and an easy read, with lots of Scripture passages to go with the explanations in the book. Do a little reading before coming up here and tearing into Christianity before you know anything about it.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Interesting points Mike....which I have some agreement with.

I've known several "Born Again" Christians.
1 hated heavy metal.
1 loved it
1 prefered country

1 couldn't stand porn
1 had the best lesbian collection I ever saw
1 recently decided he didn't need it, gave it all to me. (Ebay time?)

1 preached against violence...then joined the air force
1 preached against war...plays alot of war games.

We all have our contradictions, etc. We're all human, with the flaws that our creator (be it mom n dad, god, or some germs that said "today, lets be blond") installed in us.

Not all Xians are frothing at the mouth, thumpies. Not all Homosexuals are hair dressers in purple pants.

I know alot of both, am glad to call them my friends, and wish to see them all happy.

If any 2 people are that commited to one another, that they want to ensure they are taken care of and protected, then who am I to prevent that? Because a book that has been mis-translated repeatedly over the centuries says so? Not good enough.

Allowing gays to marry only strengthens the idea of marrage, as it allows them to make that commitment, and truely "Love Honor and Cherish Til Death do Us Part".

What is wrong with loving someone, wanting to spend your life with them, and ensure that when you die, they are looked out for?

I thought the Christian Faith was about Love.... not all this hate.
Was I wrong?

 

[MisterMike]

Mike,

Well the problem is that we have a revolution coming this fall. It may be bloodless and unlike other countries, Yet it still is a revolution. I wish everyone would get out and vote. I know I have skills and can go to other countries if needed. If this country that my family as has been in for 383 years not including the American Indian heritage, I would be willing to leave. Maybe Canada, or NZ or Austrialia? Oh Well, I try not to make politcal issues religious issues. Yet, when the poloticians make it their campaign you have no choice.

Thank You

Well if we decided to leave the country for every president we didn't like, there'd be no-one left

Every 4 to 8 years we are going to have someone different. They could have their morals grounded in the different religions, but they are never going to please everyone.

The thing is, it is not just Christians and religious people against these gay marriage decisions. It violates our American family traditions and all practical thought and definitions of the family unit.

I think our elected President is concerned for the preservation of family because the chances of bringing up children properly depends on it. A whole home with a Mommy and a Daddy have a lot more in their favor when it comes time to raise children. I'm not saying there are no cases to the contrary but the divorce rate is up and the grades are going down.

Oh, marriages based out of Christianity have a higher success rate. Just wanted to plug that