Liu He Ba Fa

[oxy]

If you get a chance, post some of the video of your movement. I have been looking at the ones on youtube and they vary greatly in apparent quality. However, liu he ba fa's movement seems particularly interesting to me and I like the way it seems to combine multiple methods of power generation. It would be more apparent if I saw higher quality practitioners in action.

You're very correct in saying that the LHBF on youtube varies greatly. None of them actually match the photos of Chan Yik Yan (you can find them at www.waterboxing.com )

The thing is, we try to perform the pattern as though it's "nothing special". So it's very likely Choi was actually doing that in the video. Looking pedestrian while keeping everything internal is something we try to achieve.

I might be able to find some time to film myself after exams, but it probably wouldn't be quality practitioning.

 

[Rook]

You're very correct in saying that the LHBF on youtube varies greatly. None of them actually match the photos of Chan Yik Yan (you can find them at www.waterboxing.com )

I already bookmarked the page. It was interesting stuff but no video.

The thing is, we try to perform the pattern as though it's "nothing special". So it's very likely Choi was actually doing that in the video. Looking pedestrian while keeping everything internal is something we try to achieve.

I might be able to find some time to film myself after exams, but it probably wouldn't be quality practitioning.

Thanks. I'll look forward to it.

 

[East Winds]

Rook,

Yes, I did some Liu Ho Pa Fa some years ago but am no expert. The You Tube clips are vastly variable from a "Chen" style performer who is in my opinion appalling, to a lady whos body structure is way out of kilter!! In between you have some reasonable (and different) forms.

Oxy,

When I commented on the footwork being sloppy, I was refering to the fact that after the foot is planted, there is a lot of re-ajustment happening. There is a lot of lifting of toes and heels at the point the applications would be applied (i.e. no root). I do however agree that the form should be "formless", however that does not mean slackness. Feet should be planted and remain planted until the next transition otherwise the form and the applications are worthless.

Liu Ho Pa Fa is a very underated martial art.

Very best wishes

 

[oxy]

When I commented on the footwork being sloppy, I was refering to the fact that after the foot is planted, there is a lot of re-ajustment happening. There is a lot of lifting of toes and heels at the point the applications would be applied (i.e. no root). I do however agree that the form should be "formless", however that does not mean slackness. Feet should be planted and remain planted until the next transition otherwise the form and the applications are worthless.

This is what I was referring to when I said LHBF has different philosophies.

I can tell you that the foot movements are not "re-adjustments". They are actually an integral part of power generation in LHBF.

For example, when you transition from a 4/6 stance to a bow and arrow stance, we twist the back foot on the toes. The heel is still touching the floor but lifted just enough to allow movement. It allows the torso to turn much more quickly than if your feet are completely planted during the movement. The same goes for when you transition from bow to 4/6.

Now, Choi in that video does seem to be a bit rough, but I would say that would be a combination of his shoes and the floor surface he was on. I myself have performed with such a combination and it makes it hard to concentrate the foot turns on the toe.

The benefits of rooting do not make much difference in Liu He Ba Fa as we do not rely on low stances and it decreases manoeuvrability, but that's a different issue. The foot movements are actually very important for power generation and stability in LHBF.

 

[East Winds]

Oxy,

Thanks for your input. Clearly we are going to disagree on many points of Liu Ho Ba Fa techniques. Turning on the toe will widen your stance and make you more unstable. (Perhaps thats why you guys need to keep adjusting stances!!). The torso turning without rooting will only produce muscular power, not internal strength. I also cannot agree that foot adjustments are an integral part of Liu Ho Pa Fa. Have a look at most of the practitioners on You Tube and Choi is the only one adjusting his feet. (Although I have to say most of the You Tube stuff is fairly poor). I also can't agree that you need a low stance to root properly. Low stances have little to do with rooting. But for the release of Jins you certainly need rooting. If your Liu Ho Ba Fa does not require rooting, then I'm afraid as a MA it will be of little use. My teachers mantra was "The important feature of a good stance is the capacity for correct action".

Anyway it is good that a little known art is being aired. It has made me dig out all my old notes and begin to practise the art again.

Very best wishes

 

[oxy]

Turning on the toe will widen your stance and make you more unstable.

That's why you see that in the video, Choi is basically standing up. His feet are really close together. The widening of stance does not even become as wide as what you would see in Bagua.

Also, the use of the martial art is much different from how we practice it.

The torso turning without rooting will only produce muscular power, not internal strength.

The only thing I can assure you is that 1) we do not solely rely on that and 2) that you have to be taught properly in the foot turning to be able to generate a lot of power. It's impossible to describe over the internet (but you can see it in Choi's 12 animal videos) and impossible to imagine for someone who has not been taught personally. So, in short, we'll just have to disagree.

Have a look at most of the practitioners on You Tube and Choi is the only one adjusting his feet.

Choi's the only one Chan Yik Yan officially passed the lineage to.

If your Liu Ho Ba Fa does not require rooting, then I'm afraid as a MA it will be of little use.

Again, you cannot imagine, let alone trial what I'm talking about, so we'll have to leave it at that.

We do have our own substitute for rooting. In short, we call it "sinking".

Anyway, you have to remember that LHBF has a different set of theory. Much of modern CMA theory are incompatible.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Again, you cannot imagine, let alone trial what I'm talking about, so we'll have to leave it at that.

We do have our own substitute for rooting. In short, we call it "sinking".

Anyway, you have to remember that LHBF has a different set of theory. Much of modern CMA theory are incompatible.

Interesting statement.

Tai Chi has sinking and rooting and although I do not think it is as old a LHBF I would not call it a modern CMA. And Shuaijiao is one of the oldest CMA styles and from what I understand its theory is very similar to modern CMA and TMA styles. However I will admit it could be very different from something such as LHBF. I know less about LHBF that I do about Shuaijiao and I do not know all that much about Shuaijiao.

I do not mean this as a flame or an argument in any way. I am just very interested in what is meant by LHBF has sinking.

 

[oxy]

Interesting statement.

Tai Chi has sinking and rooting and although I do not think it is as old a LHBF I would not call it a modern CMA. And Shuaijiao is one of the oldest CMA styles and from what I understand its theory is very similar to modern CMA and TMA styles.

What I meant by modern was not about when the style came into being. Rather the way it is taught and explained today. I also was not naming any styles in particular - just the modern theory (which, I might add, is very ill-defined, which can possibly be the largest cause of incompatibility).

I do not mean this as a flame or an argument in any way. I am just very interested in what is meant by LHBF has sinking.

I would actually like to know what "rooting" really is. Everything I've read skirts around the issue. They all say why it's important, but they don't describe it in ways that is reproduceable. Maybe it's why I declared earlier that rooting has little use in LHBF - I may be fuzzy as to the equivalent in LHBF.

Sinking is basically a temporary lowering of the stance, which is accompanied by the foot turns. The aim is to use the body's weight (transferred to the point of contact along the arms) as a shock force that produces an opening in the opponent's defence as well as maintaining balance and generating power (attack and blocking at the same time, basically). We also grab the ground with our toes at all times. When this is practiced slowly, it has a sinking feeling. And in keeping with the "water boxing" mentality, we continue to move, so we don't sink constantly. Imagine waves. They go up and down.

Anyway, this "rooting" business is a bit off the point. The thing was East Winds said Choi looked clumsy because the foot shifts. I explained that it's about generating power etc. So the counter-point was that the foot shifting (not re-adjustments) negates "rooting". And then it diverged to here when I forgot to ask if East Winds sees rooting in the video. So I would like to take this chance to ask if people for their opinions if you can see rooting or if there's anything there that provides an equivalent to rooting's benefits.

My evaluation is that Choi seems to be showing his age in that video and is not performing the pattern as "spirited" as we could like. But I can also see in that video what I saw in his Xing Yi video and his 12 animal VCDs.

----------------------

Xue Sheng, you do Xing Yi, right? They have that step where you take a step forward and bring the back foot slightly forward as well, right? This could be related to what I'm trying to explain about the foot turning business.

 

[East Winds]

Oxy,

I agree that this is not the forum to discuss rooting. However from your posts, you clearly undertand the concept, if not how to actually apply it. Quite simply rooting comes from the lower half of the body and its contact with the ground. Once this power base has been developed the internal energy developed can be transfered to the upper body. Energy is rooted in the feet, transferred through the waist and applied through the hands. There can be absolutely no instabillity in the root (i.e. the feet) or there will be a subsequent flaw in the energy delivered. I did not say that Choi was clumsy or that he was in some way inadequate as a teacher. I was merely commenting on a particular video clip that I thought showed lack of stability and rooting. I had a master who consistently refused to be filmed or videoed saying "people will judge my whole performance on one single moment in time". You should not take these comments personally, and remember that some of us have indeed studied LHBF under a master teacher (even it was some years ago). Learning the sequence of movements in the LHBF form is not learning LHBF. That is only the end of the beginning.

Very best wishes

 

[Xue Sheng]

Oxy,

I agree that this is not the forum to discuss rooting. However from your posts, you clearly undertand the concept, if not how to actually apply it. Quite simply rooting comes from the lower half of the body and its contact with the ground. Once this power base has been developed the internal energy developed can be transfered to the upper body. Energy is rooted in the feet, transferred through the waist and applied through the hands. There can be absolutely no instabillity in the root (i.e. the feet) or there will be a subsequent flaw in the energy delivered. I did not say that Choi was clumsy or that he was in some way inadequate as a teacher. I was merely commenting on a particular video clip that I thought showed lack of stability and rooting. I had a master who consistently refused to be filmed or videoed saying "people will judge my whole performance on one single moment in time". You should not take these comments personally, and remember that some of us have indeed studied LHBF under a master teacher (even it was some years ago). Learning the sequence of movements in the LHBF form is not learning LHBF. That is only the end of the beginning.

Very best wishes

Good description.

I was going to go the Chinese type metaphor route- think tree

 

[oxy]

There can be absolutely no instabillity in the root (i.e. the feet) or there will be a subsequent flaw in the energy delivered.

But that's the thing. There is no instability. The foot turns do not lead to instability. The whole foot is in constant contact and applying constant force to the waist. The body's weight is also in constant contact with the ground between the feet.

To expand on the concept, there are quite a few more reasons why we turn the foot. The other is for balance of forces. You have one force going forwards. We balance this by shifting our weight downwards and a balancing force backwards by turning the foot. This prevents over extension so that no energy is needed to waste on unnecessary attempts at balancing. In LHBF, we have the principle of the balance of forces. For example, if we have a force that punches out, there must be a balancing force that goes backwards. In some cases, that would mean the withdrawing of one hand to the waste while the other lashes out. But that would also be a waste of energy. So we add the foot turning (in this context) to provide the counter-balance.

Also, Xue Sheng didn't get back to me with this one, but I would draw a parallel from the foot shifting to the shuffle step you would see in Xing Yi videos. Surely, you wouldn't look at the back foot moving in Xing Yi and say that would make you unstable. Our foot turning is the same principle used in Xing Yi but we just carry it out differently. Unless you have the same objections to the Xing Yi shuffle step (or whatever it's called), I don't see how the foot turning would make one unstable and unable to root.

I did not say that Choi was clumsy or that he was in some way inadequate as a teacher.

I don't know if I come across that way, but I wasn't accusing you of saying that.

You should not take these comments personally

I get that quite a lot. Apparently, every time I try to explain the way I understand things, people automatically assume I took the comments personally. If someone presents an analysis of something that we do, surely, I'm allowed to reject the analysis on the basis of incorrectness, right? That's all I'm doing.

and remember that some of us have indeed studied LHBF under a master teacher (even it was some years ago). Learning the sequence of movements in the LHBF form is not learning LHBF.

Okay, that last bit is kind of irrelevant, don't you think? I don't think we were ever talking about sequence, where we? I thought we were talking about the foot turnings leading to instability.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Also, Xue Sheng didn't get back to me with this one, but I would draw a parallel from the foot shifting to the shuffle step you would see in Xing Yi videos. Surely, you wouldn't look at the back foot moving in Xing Yi and say that would make you unstable. Our foot turning is the same principle used in Xing Yi but we just carry it out differently. Unless you have the same objections to the Xing Yi shuffle step (or whatever it's called), I don't see how the foot turning would make one unstable and unable to root.

My apologies for not responding before.

I just watched the LHBF form of Choi and I also watched the form of Helen Liang. First I do not know LHBF so I would likely not be a good judge of anyone’s form. And form what I have seen in the various videos of LHBF that I have watched is that they all tend to look incredibly different.

As to Choi, I hate to judge anyone on one video. And any number of things could be affecting his otherwise impeccable form. I saw this happen to my first CMA Sifu on stage doing a Chen form that he was amazing at. However just prior in a Long fist form he had strained a leg muscle so his Chen did not look that good.

But if I were to just look at that video I would have to say that there are areas where Choi looks incredibly rooted and others where he looks like he is just not where he needs to be so he is adjusting his feet.

As to similarities to Xingyi stepping, I have to say I do not see it in Choi's form. I do see it in Helen Liang however.

Xingyi by nature moves forward and moves forward fast, think freight train. I am for all intensive purposes going off the front foot, not the back and when the back foot becomes the front foot it hits the ground, roots and that is what pulls you forward. The now back foot follows and hits the ground and stops. It does not readjust nor does it move until you go to the next step. When the back foot hits the ground it gives you additional power for striking. If I where to hit the ground with the back foot and then allow it to move as in the Choi video I loose 2 things power and forward momentum and this is not Xingyi.

 

[oxy]

When the back foot hits the ground it gives you additional power for striking. If I where to hit the ground with the back foot and then allow it to move as in the Choi video I loose 2 things power and forward momentum and this is not Xingyi.

I didn't want to get too into it before you had a chance to respond.

However, what I was not saying is that the back foot turns after it hits the ground. What I mean is that the back foot turn is a kind of substitute for the Xing Yi step.

If I understand correctly, the back foot should hit the ground at the same time as the strike, right? Conversely, with LHBF's foot turning, the turning should stop right at the moment of the strike. Also, in Xing Yi, when the back foot hits the ground, the torso "falls" slightly, right? When you do the foot turning, it gives the same effect. No one would even suggest you would shift your feet after you do the back foot step. It's more of a substitute.

Basically, our foot turning is like a stationary and understated (a core LHBF philosophy, by the way) form of the Xing Yi step. I would say it's a generalised form of the Xing Yi step. The Xing Yi step basically moves forward. In LHBF, you can move forward and do the Xing Yi step, or you can stay still and do the Xing Yi step on a dime. The latter would be used for close quarters combat since I would think it would be quite difficult to use the advancing form of the Xing Yi step.

As to similarities to Xingyi stepping, I have to say I do not see it in Choi's form. I do see it in Helen Liang however.

So basically, you don't see it in Choi's form is because we do our version of the step inconspicuously.

The Xing Yi step provides great power. And we encourage its use. But the main focus of LHBF is to use the least amount of energy for the greatest amount of power and we acheive this through the flow of the applications. If we did a Xing Yi step right out of the book it breaks the flow.

From a scientific standpoint, kinetic friction is always smaller than static friction. It takes less energy to keep a thing moving than it is to have to start anew each time. So we try to keep our bodies (which, by LHBF definition must include the feet) moving (but rooted) until the end.

Don't get me started on the Helen Liang video.

Anyway, I created a computer generated version of one of the LHBF patterns in the video thread. It's very robotic, but you can just about see the principles I'm talking about before.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I didn't want to get too into it before you had a chance to respond.

However, what I was not saying is that the back foot turns after it hits the ground. What I mean is that the back foot turn is a kind of substitute for the Xing Yi step.

If I understand correctly, the back foot should hit the ground at the same time as the strike, right? Conversely, with LHBF's foot turning, the turning should stop right at the moment of the strike. Also, in Xing Yi, when the back foot hits the ground, the torso "falls" slightly, right? When you do the foot turning, it gives the same effect. No one would even suggest you would shift your feet after you do the back foot step. It's more of a substitute.

Basically, our foot turning is like a stationary and understated (a core LHBF philosophy, by the way) form of the Xing Yi step. I would say it's a generalised form of the Xing Yi step. The Xing Yi step basically moves forward. In LHBF, you can move forward and do the Xing Yi step, or you can stay still and do the Xing Yi step on a dime. The latter would be used for close quarters combat since I would think it would be quite difficult to use the advancing form of the Xing Yi step.

As stated I know little about LHBF and how it works or it apps. And that would also be an admission that I do not know the subtleties of it either.

I do understand what you are saying and I suppose it is possible that is what Choi was doing. And the best I can offer is that to the eye untrained in LHBF it looks like he is looking for proper foot position.

As to Xingyi at close quarters, the step just gets shorter and there is more to Xingyi than the step. My last Sifu had some tremendous power at close range.

So basically, you don't see it in Choi's form is because we do our version of the step inconspicuously.

The Xing Yi step provides great power. And we encourage its use. But the main focus of LHBF is to use the least amount of energy for the greatest amount of power and we acheive this through the flow of the applications. If we did a Xing Yi step right out of the book it breaks the flow.

From a scientific standpoint, kinetic friction is always smaller than static friction. It takes less energy to keep a thing moving than it is to have to start anew each time. So we try to keep our bodies (which, by LHBF definition must include the feet) moving (but rooted) until the end.

Don't get me started on the Helen Liang video.

Anyway, I created a computer generated version of one of the LHBF patterns in the video thread. It's very robotic, but you can just about see the principles I'm talking about before.

And this too is very likely, I do not know LHBF and as I said I have seen a few videos of it, I even saw it done live once fairly recently and they all look different. Some look more like Tai Chi others look more Bagua another one looks more Xingyi and yet another looks like none of them.

And I do not know Helen Liang either, I am wondering if she is Liang Shou-Yu's daughter, but that is all.

 

[oxy]

I do understand what you are saying and I suppose it is possible that is what Choi was doing. And the best I can offer is that to the eye untrained in LHBF it looks like he is looking for proper foot position.

I would think that his propensity to look at the floor and his hands would definitely serve to give that impression. In my father's school, we generally don't let people learn the next moves until they show enough promise that they are breaking the habit of looking at their hands and feet or even slightly at the ground.

As to Xingyi at close quarters, the step just gets shorter

Well, of course. But try to imagine a Xing Yi step where there is no step forward and the back foot doesn't leave the ground. How would you go about doing the Xing Yi step without actually stepping? That's what the foot turning is all about. Also, think about how you would modify the Xing Yi step to allow for multiple quick fire strikes. This is what the foot turning step is training.

and there is more to Xingyi than the step. My last Sifu had some tremendous power at close range.

I didn't mean that Xing Yi lacks power at close range. Our second form is a lot like Xing Yi and it has tremendous power at close range, so I know what you are talking about. I know Xing Yi has more than the step, but I only draw a parallel to this since it is the only thing relevant to this discussion. I hope that clears things.

And this too is very likely, I do not know LHBF and as I said I have seen a few videos of it, I even saw it done live once fairly recently and they all look different. Some look more like Tai Chi others look more Bagua another one looks more Xingyi and yet another looks like none of them.

It might be because they were doing different parts (but I wasn't there so I wouldn't know).

And I do not know Helen Liang either, I am wondering if she is Liang Shou-Yu's daughter, but that is all.

I think she is. I saw another video of her and an older man demonstrating push hands and I think the credits had his name on it. On the youtube video, I can follow for the first few bits of the thing. But then it diverts so much from the proper form. I listed a website previously in this thread www.waterboxing.com . They posted photos from Chan Yik Yan's book that shows the correct order. Because they are still shots, they lack a bit of what is present in the moving form, but none of the videos (except Choi's) contain the whole form as per the photos. That website also has Wu Yi Hui photos which demonstrates how things should be done.

Anyway, as I've said to Rook, I will be trying to find some time after exams to film myself (more for archival purposes) and maybe pick a clip to post here. I can't guarantee that I would be able to demonstrate the principles I talk about though.

 

[oxy]

I rewatched the video more closely. I think I was right in my initial assessment in that his shoes and the ground are really mismatched.

The floor seems to be a polished and coated floor kind of like what you would find in basketball courts but with a little bit more of the "varnish stickiness". And his shoes are the ones that come with rubbery soles which grips the ground more than usual. Coincidentally enough, I've had a similar experience. When I practiced on that kind of surface for the first time it feels like when you try to slide across some linoleum only to find that it isn't as slippery as you thought and you end up doing a stuttered skip. The first few times I did that, I certainly did have to readjust my feet. But I've had enough practice in similar conditions (eg 2-3 cm moist grass) to be able to do the foot turning. So my guess is that Choi didn't have enough experience on similar surfaces or that floor was more stickier than what you would normally find. If it were me in that instance, I would have probably replaced all the foot turns with the Xing Yi steps instead.

Also, another thing that may have caused him to look like he was readjusting is that he generally did not time the foot turns in synch with everything else. Part of that I would also say was due to the floor. Basically, he would turn the foot just before he commits the next move to compensate for the stickiness of the floor. Again, I would have just substituted that with a step instead.

 

[East Winds]

Oxy,

Of the LHBF clips , the most technically correct (if the least aesthetically pleasing) is the clip of Paul Dillon. Solidly rooted, feet planted at the end of each posture.
I cannot agree that the hands deliver the energy at the same time as the foot plants. The foot MUST plant first in order to transfer the energy via the waist into the hands. It may look as if it is happening simultaneously, but believe me it should not. I cannot talk about Xing-I as my experience of this is very limited. However I have been practising Chinese internal arts for quite some time (Taiji, Bagua and LHBF) and I contend that the internal principals of one are the same as the internal principals of the others. As you know LHBF is a synthesis of the the three other internal arts. Taiji like a rubber ball, Xing-I like a steel ball, Bagua like a woven wire ball. LHBF taking elements from the other three.

And I really cannot let you get away with claiming in one post that foot repositioning is a fundamental element of LHBF and in another claiming that the foot repositioning is the result of shoes and floor. It is either one or the other.

Very best wishes

 

[Xue Sheng]

I cannot agree that the hands deliver the energy at the same time as the foot plants. The foot MUST plant first in order to transfer the energy via the waist into the hands. It may look as if it is happening simultaneously, but believe me it should not. I cannot talk about Xing-I as my experience of this is very limited.

Same for Xingyi.

 

[oxy]

I cannot agree that the hands deliver the energy at the same time as the foot plants. The foot MUST plant first in order to transfer the energy via the waist into the hands. It may look as if it is happening simultaneously, but believe me it should not.

Okay, a bit of my teaching method leaked into it. I know very well that the foot must be planted first. But the timing still has to be right. So we aim for simultaneous force, but it is only through aiming for such a goal that the right timing between the foot planting and the strike is achieved. Same for the foot turning. The foot turning ends just before the strike is executed, but there must be good timing.

We can never get perfect simultaneous foot planting and striking. But it is aiming for such that a perfect timing between the foot plant and the strike that gives power.

As an aside, LHBF philosophy is that maximum power is attained through the whole body moving together. Letting the feet plant too early from the strike breaks that flow and decreases the power. Optimising that lag to be as small as possible gives the benefit of both the whole body's force being focussed into the strike as well as the energy gained from being rooted to the ground. A strike's application time is short. So there's not point in dragging out the time you get the force from the ground. Short and sharp and ready for the next situation.

I cannot talk about Xing-I as my experience of this is very limited. However I have been practising Chinese internal arts for quite some time (Taiji, Bagua and LHBF) and I contend that the internal principals of one are the same as the internal principals of the others. As you know LHBF is a synthesis of the the three other internal arts. Taiji like a rubber ball, Xing-I like a steel ball, Bagua like a woven wire ball. LHBF taking elements from the other three.

That is not exactly a logical conclusion. Most of LHBF teachers out there right now were only introduced to LHBF after learning one or more of the other internal arts. The most likely explanation for the internal principles being carbon copies of each other is that their training in the other arts bled into LHBF. And given the fact that the Grandmasters Wu Yi Hui and Chan Yik Yan would only demonstrate a move three times at most, it's no wonder that their students have to fill in parts they missed with principles from the others.

Secondly, the history of LHBF is certainly not an attempt to almagamate the other three arts. The more likely explanation is that the Daoist martial arts all contain the principles of the earlier Daoist qigong called Tao Yin. All four developed from that art, which is why their principles are similar.

And I really cannot let you get away with claiming in one post that foot repositioning is a fundamental element of LHBF and in another claiming that the foot repositioning is the result of shoes and floor. It is either one or the other.

The foot turning is a fundamental part of LHBF footwork. The foot repositioning in Chois video is poor because of the shoes and the floor. So it's not "one or the other". It's always "foot turning". How perfectly you can carry it out is variable from practitioner to practitioner and terrain to terrain. I'll say it one last time:

Foot turning is a fundamental element of LHBF. Choi's POOR foot turning is a result of the floor and shoes. Foot turning and poor/good foot turning are not one and the same.

 

[oxy]

Same for Xingyi.

The thing about East Wind's post is that he did not distinguish between the front foot from the back. The front foot definitely lands much earlier before the strike, but the back foot is almost simultaneous with the strike.

Would you know of any Xing Yi videos that looks very representative of the step and could you post it if it exists? In some Xing Yi videos I've seen sometimes the back foot is even completely off the ground at the moment of striking.