Liu He Ba Fa

[arashikage1]

truthfully...any and all liuhebafa that has its line going back to Master Wu Yi Hui it is liuhebafa. If it traces its roots to Master Chan Yik Yan that is great also and if you can trace your liuhebafa all the way to Chen Xi Yi (Chen Tuan) then that is truly amazing. In the all the various styles of liuhebafa are part of one family despite differences within the various systems.

 

[mograph]

The five-character songs are applicable to any martial art, in my opinion.

 

[Xue Sheng]

In the all the various styles of liuhebafa are part of one family despite differences within the various systems.

True but the same can pretty much be said for Xingyiquan, Baguazhang, Taijiquan and multiple other CMA styles

 

[mograph]

... and this is good.

 

[VASI]

There is also early wu yi hui teachings versus some of the older stuff. seems the earlier stuff is much better and changed later. a bud of mine is seriously into it and trained around in different countries

 

[CrushingFist]

Love going back and reading this

 

[TaiChiTJ]

Xue Sheng, I do not know if you have seen this Liu He Ba Fa site. A whole lot of text information about the subject. I have spent a little time with it.


WaterSpirit-6x8

 

[greytowhite]

Having practiced the three main internals I'm quite interested in LHBF. There are some great resources out there now for more legitimate lines. One of the more interesting developments is Dr. Kenneth Fish's discovery of a DuLiu Tongbei

Liu He Ba Fa

the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum • View topic - rocking the boat on LHBF

Here is one of Choi Wai Lun's long term students practicing.

Here are two videos of Chan Yik Yan's student Mok Kei Fai. Paul Roberts has done a lot of work on documenting the art on the site below.

International Liuhebafa Internal Arts Association

 

[Bagualo8]

As an internal styles (Taiji, Xing Yi, Bagua & LHBF) practitioner for many years, I want to advice anyone who are interested in LHBF that if any teacher or Sifu tells you that LHBF is a mixture of Taiji, Xing Yi & Bagua, that teacher does not know what LHBF is. LHBF is a unquie system completely different to the other three internal styles.

 

[KabutoKouji]

Is that the 'Water Boxing' one? - I think that's what Ling Xiayou in Tekken is supposed to be from - you can definitely see Bagua in her movements too

 

[Xue Sheng]

Is that the 'Water Boxing' one? - I think that's what Ling Xiayou in Tekken is supposed to be from - you can definitely see Bagua in her movements too

Tekken is a fighting video game franchise and Ling Xiayou is a cartoon character. I do not think I would look at that as good source of information about the reality of LHBF

 

[KabutoKouji]

Tekken is a fighting video game franchise and Ling Xiayou is a cartoon character. I do not think I would look at that as good source of information about the reality of LHBF

well yeah it is but they are usually mo capped from pracitioners, Hwoarang for example is a pretty accurate rendition of an ITF practitioner, even down to the tul he does during 'attract' mode. He also does 'twisting kicks'. Obviously there are the OTT moves like 'The Hunting Hawk' but the stuff he does while standing is pretty accurate IMO. Jin Kazama's second movesets are also mo capped from Kyokushin practitioners, it is only really the total 'fantasy'/monster type characters that dont have many elements from whatever style they are supposed to come from. In Street Fighter the link is pretty tenuos, but in Tekken it is definitely there.

 

[Xue Sheng]

it is a high tech interactive cartoon....

 

[KabutoKouji]

intellectual snobbery based on the medium is still intellectual snobbery - when movies first appeared people were the same, as I said before it is motion capped from humans doing the movements - how does that make those parts of their movements different than a video recording of them in terms of how much of the movements of the style come into what you are looking at? In the game Ling Xiayou very clearly 'walks the circle'. When you watch Hwoarang perform Hwa-Rang pattern in Tekken 3, yes it is polygons you are watching but it is very clearly the recorded movements of a human. Anyway if you don't care for polygons or drawings moving that's fine there is no point in still talking about it, I will not mention the characters in Tekken again.

[youtube]

 

[greytowhite]

KabutoKouji, your attachment to the video game shows your lack of experience fighting IRL, especially against well trained and tested internal guys. Walking a circle in an actual fight is not advised, it is a training exercise that is meant to develop footwork and connecting the feet to the hands through abnormal torso articulation. Just because someone motion captured a martial artist doing moves from their style doesn't mean they know how those things are used and synthesized. As much as I love to use Elliott in DOA 5 much of what he does is stuff we would never use in real combat.

 

[Xue Sheng]

intellectual snobbery based on the medium is still intellectual snobbery - when movies first appeared people were the same, as I said before it is motion capped from humans doing the movements - how does that make those parts of their movements different than a video recording of them in terms of how much of the movements of the style come into what you are looking at? In the game Ling Xiayou very clearly 'walks the circle'. When you watch Hwoarang perform Hwa-Rang pattern in Tekken 3, yes it is polygons you are watching but it is very clearly the recorded movements of a human. Anyway if you don't care for polygons or drawings moving that's fine there is no point in still talking about it, I will not mention the characters in Tekken again.

[youtube]

It is not intellectual snobbery, nice accusation though.

The meaning is you cannot judge an art, like LHBF (or any MA for that matter), that you do not know, based on a fantasy game. LHBF is not Bagua nor does it come from it, the fact you see some bagua similarity in the LHBF done by a fictional character in a cartoon does not really tell you anything about LHBF. It tells you that the person that they used for their motion capture did something that resembled Bagua to you. I have no idea what you saw, I have no idea if it was actually bagua, and I have done bagua before. I also have no idea what the person they appear to have used for motion capture actually knew either, did they know LHBF, did they know LHBF and bagua and combined them for the game, did they actually know any CMA style at all. Therefore it cannot be used as a reputable source of information as it applies to LHBF in the real world.

Basically your citing Tekkon as a source of some sort of understanding of LHBF is simply not a good source, sorry, call it what you will, but I call it reality

 

[Flying Crane]

In Tibetan white crane we also have a "circle walking" kind of thing. It ain't Bagua, it ain't Liu He Ba Fa either.

Recognizing a video game for what it is, is not snobbery. It is just living within the confines of reality. The makers of video games tend to take creative liberties.

It ain't personal.

 

[KabutoKouji]

I did not say it gave me any understanding I asked is it what the character was based on/motion captured from in the hope someone might know, and also mentioned it because it is pretty rare to see it mentioned in media in general. I was asking did anyone else know anything more about this. Anyway having said that, my memory was incorrect anyway as she is supposed to be based on Bagua and Piguaguan. I have done one 3 hour seminar of Bagua before but I do not in any way means I have any knowledge of it, though as the circle walk is pretty well known when I saw it in the game and then when I heard people say that some people were saying that LHBF is a 'composition' of all 3 of the internal CMAs, I thought this added evidence to my theory. I was wrong, obviously.

For better or for worse the original reason I chose ITF TKD was because of Tekken 3 back in the late 90s. So even if it is a medium you do not like, it can influence people and bring people to MAs, which is a good thing. Just like as a Lancia person, I don't mind the fact that a lot of the reason people in general still know what an integrale is is because of car racing games. I never implied it was some kind of actual proper reference guide to any MA, but to say it is total thrash and has no relation to the arts it does have in some of it's characters is not correct either. In both Tekken and Soul Calibur there are motion captured 'demos' which play in between games of characters performing kata/forms/tul, people seeing this in between their games is a good thing IMO. I watched a Mas Oyama docu last week, and as he was doing his drills instantly it was apparent to me that Jin's moveset in Tekken are exact copies of movements he did himself. Anyway I apologise for steering the thread way off course.

 

[KabutoKouji]

In Tibetan white crane we also have a "circle walking" kind of thing. It ain't Bagua, it ain't Liu He Ba Fa either.

Recognizing a video game for what it is, is not snobbery. It is just living within the confines of reality. The makers of video games tend to take creative liberties.

It ain't personal.

That is true, but seeing how accurate the movements of characters are in the game when they are based on a 'named' art (when they're not based on something 'real' they quite clearly have made up names for their arts), I'd be prepared to believe it quite probable Ling Xiayou is motion captured from someone practicing Bagua itself. Though not LHBF as I have said I was completely wrong about.

You're right they do take creative liberties a lot.

 

[Bagualo8]

I know this thread should talk about LHBF. But I can't help to say something about Bagua. There are so many people mistaken Bagua Zhang is all about walking circle. The truth is walking circle is only a way of developing power or energy. The real techniques are in the linear form or some call it individual movement (San Sau). Only a fool will circling around an opponent during a fight. The real circle is one's center point or Dan Tin. The circle is invisible expanding from the center of oneself.