Liu He Ba Fa
- Thread starter Xue Sheng
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JadeDragon3
Black Belt
Here are a few words my Sifu (John Dufresne) gave on the topic.....
Well even the styles you mentioned can have Six Harmonies to initiate the movements- in-fact there are such six harmony methods already. It would be like asking how do I know where the wind begins? You dont- you just feel the breeze- So to answer your question-"By the results".
Dont get me wrong- there are so many Six Harmony styles unfortunatly it isnt the style that signifies the intent- its the intent that signifies the style. So this is why I am so dissapointed when I hear about specific Six Harmony methods and being explained by movements- externally speaking, If the intent is pure and in Harmony so will the movements-
Now something that I sent to Jade but obviously he did not get it yet- Please understand that when we start speaking to deeply about Six Harmony, it is impossible to do so without bringing the devine natureinto it. I dont normally even talk about this stuff especially on a forum- Just relize the Tao is simply the way of the world. It can be dangerous to stay within the Tao when we practise, as martial artists; because our intent is to deceive or manipulate- "Make your opponent think you are far when yo are near"
It is completely impossible to acheive complete harmony in this way and actually very dangerous spiritually speaking. Just understand that the Tao is a physical way to acheive a devine understanding- and for that we learn when we are ready to accept it- not by training just by yeilding.
Just one more thing (our Will is not a good thing to have)- This is what keeps us within the Tao and enevitably staying in circles for a lifetime. Up down, hot cold, black white, male female- we are taught from the beginning of our lives to always resist the action- through martial training we learn to acept,(Most people would be satisfied with the results) However if the intent is to manupulate or deceive or to get your Will, this is the danger I speak of. Remeber when I mentioned Xing-I and the separation of Heart and Mind- at the moment our Minds become separated from the heart- "the ego is created" Our ego's will be our Will- If we continue to study in this manner for a life time- can you imagine how bent we become? and how we would ultimatly become what we hate. So to simplify, and as the Tao states; Yin will become Yang and Yang will become Yin- or good will become bad and bad will become good. How do I not become subject to a study that I put my faith in (MA)?
By finding the Devine Nature- it is ultimatly the Will not ours. Its a small path very few find it but those who do, can experience a complete change- a real change and one not subject to action reaction of the world.
Well even the styles you mentioned can have Six Harmonies to initiate the movements- in-fact there are such six harmony methods already. It would be like asking how do I know where the wind begins? You dont- you just feel the breeze- So to answer your question-"By the results".
Dont get me wrong- there are so many Six Harmony styles unfortunatly it isnt the style that signifies the intent- its the intent that signifies the style. So this is why I am so dissapointed when I hear about specific Six Harmony methods and being explained by movements- externally speaking, If the intent is pure and in Harmony so will the movements-
Now something that I sent to Jade but obviously he did not get it yet- Please understand that when we start speaking to deeply about Six Harmony, it is impossible to do so without bringing the devine natureinto it. I dont normally even talk about this stuff especially on a forum- Just relize the Tao is simply the way of the world. It can be dangerous to stay within the Tao when we practise, as martial artists; because our intent is to deceive or manipulate- "Make your opponent think you are far when yo are near"
It is completely impossible to acheive complete harmony in this way and actually very dangerous spiritually speaking. Just understand that the Tao is a physical way to acheive a devine understanding- and for that we learn when we are ready to accept it- not by training just by yeilding.
Just one more thing (our Will is not a good thing to have)- This is what keeps us within the Tao and enevitably staying in circles for a lifetime. Up down, hot cold, black white, male female- we are taught from the beginning of our lives to always resist the action- through martial training we learn to acept,(Most people would be satisfied with the results) However if the intent is to manupulate or deceive or to get your Will, this is the danger I speak of. Remeber when I mentioned Xing-I and the separation of Heart and Mind- at the moment our Minds become separated from the heart- "the ego is created" Our ego's will be our Will- If we continue to study in this manner for a life time- can you imagine how bent we become? and how we would ultimatly become what we hate. So to simplify, and as the Tao states; Yin will become Yang and Yang will become Yin- or good will become bad and bad will become good. How do I not become subject to a study that I put my faith in (MA)?
By finding the Devine Nature- it is ultimatly the Will not ours. Its a small path very few find it but those who do, can experience a complete change- a real change and one not subject to action reaction of the world.
Formosa Neijia
Green Belt
I think oxy raises some good points but perhaps his manner is a bit rough.
When I lived in Florida, I considered Huang one of the top IMA players in the state. His skills are very good, but I would agree that his taiji training colors most of what I've seen him do.
This version of liuhebafa seems no different. If I'm not mistaken he isn't actually doing the liuhebafa form but a mixture of moves that perhaps show some of his liuhebafa flavor. The postures certainly do seem to be more taiji influenced than most other liuhebafa that I've seen.
However, having an influence from another art doesn't seem out of place for liuhebafa. The branch here in Taiwan is heavily influenced by Cheng Man-ching taiji since Tao Ping-siang was also a disciple of his.
When I lived in Florida, I considered Huang one of the top IMA players in the state. His skills are very good, but I would agree that his taiji training colors most of what I've seen him do.
This version of liuhebafa seems no different. If I'm not mistaken he isn't actually doing the liuhebafa form but a mixture of moves that perhaps show some of his liuhebafa flavor. The postures certainly do seem to be more taiji influenced than most other liuhebafa that I've seen.
However, having an influence from another art doesn't seem out of place for liuhebafa. The branch here in Taiwan is heavily influenced by Cheng Man-ching taiji since Tao Ping-siang was also a disciple of his.
Formosa Neijia
Green Belt
Woops. I forgot to actually address some of oxy's points.
Developing up/down jins is a specialty of xingyi and bagua. Any good xingyi/bagua guy will tell you it's a major advantage over most taiji players. For some bizarre reason that I've never understood, most taiji player think you should never move up and down in your form -- ensuring that most taiji players are only capable in a narrow range of motion. Take them out of that narrow range and taiji becomes difficult to use. The only taiji style that I know of that actually incorporates up/down motion is the Chen Pan-ling form that I do.
Judging from oxy's comments he's also saying that the liuhebafa uses a mobile root. Again, that's something that I've only really heard talked about in bagua. Taiji rooting is more stable. So there are real differences in the arts.
However, the hands don't have to move with the body as oxy says, at least as far as I know. Once the san neihe (three internal connections) are accomplished, the arms are connected internally. They don't need to be powered by body mechanics (the san waihe -- external connections) to make the moves work. At least not to the same degree.
Actually I would argue that the three external connections simple take on a new, deeper meaning at that stage beyond the body mechanics that most people think of.
Developing up/down jins is a specialty of xingyi and bagua. Any good xingyi/bagua guy will tell you it's a major advantage over most taiji players. For some bizarre reason that I've never understood, most taiji player think you should never move up and down in your form -- ensuring that most taiji players are only capable in a narrow range of motion. Take them out of that narrow range and taiji becomes difficult to use. The only taiji style that I know of that actually incorporates up/down motion is the Chen Pan-ling form that I do.
Judging from oxy's comments he's also saying that the liuhebafa uses a mobile root. Again, that's something that I've only really heard talked about in bagua. Taiji rooting is more stable. So there are real differences in the arts.
However, the hands don't have to move with the body as oxy says, at least as far as I know. Once the san neihe (three internal connections) are accomplished, the arms are connected internally. They don't need to be powered by body mechanics (the san waihe -- external connections) to make the moves work. At least not to the same degree.
Actually I would argue that the three external connections simple take on a new, deeper meaning at that stage beyond the body mechanics that most people think of.
ggg214
Blue Belt
http://www.answers.com/liu he ba fa
there is some info about liu he ba fa.
before reading this, i think the six harmonies is basic requirement of every CMA, which is three internal harmornies and three external harmonies: hand and foot combine, elbow and knee combine etc.
but liu he ba fa is different, and all the harmonise are kinda of spiritual. what is the explaination of these six and these ba fa? how does it differ from taiji or other internal MA?
i am looking forward to the answer. thanks
there is some info about liu he ba fa.
before reading this, i think the six harmonies is basic requirement of every CMA, which is three internal harmornies and three external harmonies: hand and foot combine, elbow and knee combine etc.
but liu he ba fa is different, and all the harmonise are kinda of spiritual. what is the explaination of these six and these ba fa? how does it differ from taiji or other internal MA?
i am looking forward to the answer. thanks
And that's just the polite way of saying it! :rofl:
LHBF encourages absorbing from other arts (moreso than any other, in my experience). I think the Hong Kong branch has a bit of CMC influence as well. But the majority of LHBF on the internet doesn't preserve the LHBF specific or even the Xingyi/Bagua specific stuff you mentioned in your later past.
It might be contagious! :rofl:
Thanks for confirming the up/down jins in LHBF. The up and downness of LHBF is expressed through circular motion in the vertical plane (and the resulting vertical orientation of arms) throughout a good part of the forms. The general feeling I get is to use vertical jins to counter horizontal jins and vice versa.
I had a video on the internet but the up/down jins in my form are done poorly, so that probably coloured the views of some.
The up/down jins of LHBF shouldn't be as visible as in my video, but you should still get the feeling it's there by watching it. My teacher had the opportunity to see Chan Yik Yan once and he was demonstrating a few moves. My teacher and not many others saw the up/down jins in his movements. Combined with the fact that Chan Yik Yan would not show any moves to a student more than three times, it's understandable how it would be missing from many other LHBF.
The up/down jins of LHBF should be viewed more as explosion/implosion.
The bagua influence on LHBF isn't as visible in the main form as the other internal arts. It's all in the root.
What you say is right.
However, as is my understanding, it's very difficult to get the internal connections if a student doesn't learn to do it externally first. In my teacher's school, we use Praying Mantis as a stepping stone to LHBF. We try to hammer in the external connections in such a way that they are externally connected but without the muscle tension. The fourth Praying Mantis form that we teach (Plum Flower Fist) is a very soft form and often looked down upon by Praying Mantises but a student normally begins to understand the internal connections.
The internal connections, as I understand it, are not driven by body mechanics (as you say): they are driven by intention, hence the Xin Yi in the LHBF name. The guy on the video doesn't seem to have the intent of connection. His arms are waving about through body mechanics. In my teacher's school, we try to knock it out of the student through the fourth Praying Mantis form we teach.
Once the internal connections are forming, the arms don't necessarily follow the body (as you say). But they still should express the explode/implode quality of LHBF in time with the up/down jins.
I think there may be a confusion (in some LHBF circles) as to what the six harmonies are. The three internal/external system is compatible with LHBF, but they are actually present in the Eight Methods part of the name.
The six LHBF harmonies:
Body unites with the Mind.
Mind unites with the Intent.
Intent unites with the Chi (internal energy).
Chi unites with the Spirit.
Spirit unites with Movement.
Movement unites with Emptiness.
I wouldn't call this spiritual. You have to understand that this was necessarily written in the language of the era.
Let's focus on the middle two harmonies.
One of the sayings in LHBF is "where there's Yi, there's Chi". The Yi (intent) is similar to the Yi in Xingyi. The shape of the form is the intent (but not necessarily how it would like in application). By trying to maintain your shape during application, you can generate "Chi" easier. I'm not a "Chi" type of person, so my understanding is that martial "Chi" IS Yi.
When you have the right intention, your form becomes quite lively without actively appearing so. This is the Spirit. In the Five Word Poem of LHBF, one line says: eyes should be like lightning. If you have intent, it is shown through your eyes and shows spirit.
One interesting thing I noticed right now is the alternation between the tangible and the abstract.
Like I said, the Eight Methods part embodies the other six harmonies:
Chi. Cultivate the Chi using the Spirit.
Bones (structure). Internal power from the structure comes from constant practice.
Form. Transform your movement through the practice of the [LiuHeBaFa] form.
Follow. Connect like a circle and respond.
Lift. Hold your posture upright.
Return. [Like a wave,] constantly move forward, back, and reverse.
Restrain. Maintain stillness [of the mind].
Conceal. Develop the ability to conceal [your technique, power, and intent] before you manifest [your attack].
The Six LHBF Harmonies are intimately connected to the Eight Methods.
Formosa Neijia
Green Belt
Oxy,
Wow. Very informative posts.
"LHBF encourages absorbing from other arts (moreso than any other, in my experience). I think the Hong Kong branch has a bit of CMC influence as well. But the majority of LHBF on the internet doesn't preserve the LHBF specific or even the Xingyi/Bagua specific stuff you mentioned in your later past."
Really? How did that happen? I thought the CMC influence would only extend over the Taiwan branch. How do you feel about that influence? Is it a good thing?
"The general feeling I get is to use vertical jins to counter horizontal jins and vice versa...The up/down jins of LHBF should be viewed more as explosion/implosion."
Yes, I agree. You're actually giving some strong hints there about the nature of the vertical jins. Good stuff.
Your points about the liuhe in LHBF are also well taken. I had forgotten that there's a difference in the more common liuhe from xingyi and the way that LHBF decribes them. Your description of the liuhe in LHBF shows a lot more sublety and is more advanced when compared to the liuhe from xingyi. The subleties in the san neihe are especially pronounced.
So do you feel that LHBF has picked up inlfuences from the other three IMAs or do you think it has it's own shenfa? I'm still a little confused by that.
BTW, if you're ever in Taiwan, look me up.
Wow. Very informative posts.
"LHBF encourages absorbing from other arts (moreso than any other, in my experience). I think the Hong Kong branch has a bit of CMC influence as well. But the majority of LHBF on the internet doesn't preserve the LHBF specific or even the Xingyi/Bagua specific stuff you mentioned in your later past."
Really? How did that happen? I thought the CMC influence would only extend over the Taiwan branch. How do you feel about that influence? Is it a good thing?
"The general feeling I get is to use vertical jins to counter horizontal jins and vice versa...The up/down jins of LHBF should be viewed more as explosion/implosion."
Yes, I agree. You're actually giving some strong hints there about the nature of the vertical jins. Good stuff.
Your points about the liuhe in LHBF are also well taken. I had forgotten that there's a difference in the more common liuhe from xingyi and the way that LHBF decribes them. Your description of the liuhe in LHBF shows a lot more sublety and is more advanced when compared to the liuhe from xingyi. The subleties in the san neihe are especially pronounced.
So do you feel that LHBF has picked up inlfuences from the other three IMAs or do you think it has it's own shenfa? I'm still a little confused by that.
BTW, if you're ever in Taiwan, look me up.
I don't think the CMC influence was deliberate. CMC Taiji did have a good reputation in Hong Kong while my teacher lived there. Chan Yik Yan did teach in Singapore (I think) for a while, but I don't know about CMC Taiji in Singapore.
From what I've seen of CMC videos, LHBF has a similar "front on" body positioning. I tend to see it as a good influence.
Some people hold the view that LHBF is nothing more than just the three mainstream internal arts put together. If that's the case, LHBF would have picked up a lot of influences. I think LHBF's own shenfa is its heavy emphasis on intent. In my practice of LHBF, even though my eyes are looking forward, I feel that my actual self is in the front lobe of my brain which pulls the rest of my body into movement. I think that's the beginning of what makes LHBF's Yi come from the Xin. Xin is often translated as "heart" but it seems more like its talking about the "core".
So how LHBF incorporates other martial arts techniques is by trying to convert them into an intent. So, for example, you have the circular movements of Taiji and Bagua, but because your movements come from your intent, those circles are smaller and as a result, your action looks like a straight line movement.
One thing in LHBF, which I don't know about the other arts, is its wavelike movement. The purpose of that is to destabilise and destructurise(?) the component by using wave energy. So if you want to pull them down, first you push them up and vice versa. This is done in vertical ellipses much like what happens in gravity waves. You are basically trying to induce a standing wave in your opponent (eg Tacoma Narrows bridge incident). This is where I think the mobile root comes in handy. The up and down jins are incorporated with foot work so that you can generate a standing wave but you can also counter any attempts to induce a standing wave in you (eg break step marching).
I wouldn't call them more advanced. I just see them as talking about different things. The Xingyi six harmonies seem to be embodied in the Eight Methods instead so it's not like it's less important to LHBF.
JadeDragon3
Black Belt
http://www.plumpub.com/info/knotebook/boxliuhe.htm
If you click on the link above you will find some info on Six Harmonies. You will also see if you look at my previous post that it was an e-mail from my teacher who is mentioned at the bottom of that link and I just copied what he said about 6 harmonies onto the post. But a lot of people claim to know the "true" six Harmonies but really don't. It gets really deep and complicated. Its more than just keeping your hand in harmony (in line) with your feet. It's more than keeping your elbows in harmony (in line)with your knees, and its more than keeping your shoulders in line (or harmony) hips. Re-read the post that posted earlier. That is a e-mail from my teacher John Dufresne who is one of the few in this country that know and understand the TRUE six harmonies. He was actually a little upset that the person that put together the website for the link above used his name because six harmonies is much more than what they say. It doesn't give a acurate discription of Six Harmonies.
If you click on the link above you will find some info on Six Harmonies. You will also see if you look at my previous post that it was an e-mail from my teacher who is mentioned at the bottom of that link and I just copied what he said about 6 harmonies onto the post. But a lot of people claim to know the "true" six Harmonies but really don't. It gets really deep and complicated. Its more than just keeping your hand in harmony (in line) with your feet. It's more than keeping your elbows in harmony (in line)with your knees, and its more than keeping your shoulders in line (or harmony) hips. Re-read the post that posted earlier. That is a e-mail from my teacher John Dufresne who is one of the few in this country that know and understand the TRUE six harmonies. He was actually a little upset that the person that put together the website for the link above used his name because six harmonies is much more than what they say. It doesn't give a acurate discription of Six Harmonies.
You know, you could re-read my post as well. The LHBF Six Harmonies are different from the Six Harmonies you mention.
I take it you're referring to Answers.com .
It's all opinion in the end. It's unfortunate people keep getting the wrong idea about collaborative encyclopaediae on the internet. It's not supposed to tell anything about the "ultimate truth" or what have you, otherwise we'd be looking to it for the meaning of life. No, it's about documenting the common understanding of subject matter.
Other people can also say your teacher doesn't know the true Six Harmonies, for example. And these other people can also have teachers who may be just as good or better than your teachers. See the problem this poses for collaborative resources?
JadeDragon3
Black Belt
The can say that but I know that he knows the true Six Harmonies and not some watyered down version. He learned it from Grandmaster John Wing Loc Ng himself. As for them having teachers better than mine that might be so, but I doubt it. My teacher has been in Chinese martial arts for 35+ years, lived in China for 7 years, and learned from an excellent teacher (Grandmaster Ng) who I also learned from for a brief period (2 1/2 years). I've been with my current teacher (John Dufresne) for 20 years. My teacher has given numerous seminars on the topic as well as on Hsing I, Ba Qua, and Yang style Tai Chi. He was on the USKFWF commitee back in the early 90's with Anthony Goh. You ask anyone in martial arts about my teacher and they will tell you that he know his Sh**.
By the way, what makes you an authority on Six Harmonies? What are your credentials?
And no I'm not trying to start an arguement. I was just stating that there is more to Six Harmonies and that there is a kind of spiritual side to it as well.
Again, it's a matter of opinion in the end.
How do you know this hypothetical student doesn't know that his hypothetical teacher ALSO know the true Six Harmonies?
It's all opinion.
Great. Have you actually noticed that this thread is about LHBF? Therefore, the Six Harmonies you mention are not completely relevant as the LHBF Six Harmonies. I've mentioned this many times now. It's even in the bit you quoted from me.
If you want to have an ego match:
My teacher is Chinese. He can read and WRITE Classical Chinese. He's read many Classical Chinese texts on philosophy and martial arts. Hell, even in this day and age, people who can read Traditional Chinese is quite rare, let alone Classical Chinese.
How many seminars has your teacher given on the Classical Chinese texts of Six Harmony theory (LHBF or otherwise) or other martial arts?
You ask any person knowledgeable in Classical Chinese and they'll tell you my teacher knows his ****. You ask any person knowledgeable in Chinese philosophy and they'll tell you my teacher knows his ****.
Does your teacher know any **** in regards to the Chinese language and philosophy and how to interpret things like the Six Harmonies (LHBF or otherwise)?
To borrow a phrase from evolutionary biologists: there are no authorities - just experts.
Since this thread is talking about LHBF, and the fact that I am a student of LHBF, I have at least learned what the LHBF Six Harmonies are. If you feel so strongly about your teacher, great. But unless he does LHBF, your comments are irrelevant.
I don't pretend to know too much. Everything I've said on this website about LHBF, if I'm not familiar with, I defer to my teacher and Chan Yik Yan's words.
If you argue that there is a spiritual side to the Six Harmonies, then I suggest you and your teacher know nothing about it. I would suggest that you and your teacher lack the cultural/historical understanding of Chinese philosophy to interpret it correctly. Instead, you reason with inadequate english translations and add New Age interpretations to it.
OP
OP
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
I all fairness it could depend on how someone defines spirituality which gets into an area I do not wish to go since it can vary greatly from person to person and becomes a very personal thing.
However with that said I do not consider the 6 harmonies as being spiritual, but that is my take on them. Others may see the balance they talk about as spiritual, I simply do not. I Also think you would be hard pressed to find a traditional Chinese Martial Arts Sifu from China, Taiwan, Singapore, etc. that would talk about the spirituality of the 6 harmonies. But I have not talked with them all so it is possible that some do, just not in my experience.
the SIX HARMONIES
JadeDragon3
Black Belt
Oxy...Why such hostility? I'm not trying to argue with you. I'm just stating that there is more to it than the hands,feet, elbows, knees, shoulders, and hands being "in harmony" with each other. That link that I posted makes it sound like thats all there is to it and its not.
By the way who is your teacher? There are few people that teach this in the U.S.. It's kinda rare to find a teacher that teaches this.
Also, you ask how do I know that my teacher and his teacher learned the real six harmonies? A person can say that about anything then by your rational. How do we know that Dr. Masaki Hatsumi (34th generation Grandmaster of Nijutsu) learned real ninjutsu. How do we know that any one learned real kung fu? How do we know that man really walked on the moon, that could have been filmed in Hollywood. Get the picture?
Again I'm not trying to start some fued with you. Just trying to say there is more to it than what a lot of people think. If you already know this then great. Some people don't know this.
By the way who is your teacher? There are few people that teach this in the U.S.. It's kinda rare to find a teacher that teaches this.
Also, you ask how do I know that my teacher and his teacher learned the real six harmonies? A person can say that about anything then by your rational. How do we know that Dr. Masaki Hatsumi (34th generation Grandmaster of Nijutsu) learned real ninjutsu. How do we know that any one learned real kung fu? How do we know that man really walked on the moon, that could have been filmed in Hollywood. Get the picture?
Again I'm not trying to start some fued with you. Just trying to say there is more to it than what a lot of people think. If you already know this then great. Some people don't know this.
This is the first sentence of your thread:
"Does anybody practice Six Harmonies style kung fu?"
The video that Xue Sheng posted is of Liu He Ba Fa. The Six Harmonies you are talking about is completely different art to Liu He Ba Fa.
I don't know if I call it hostility, but let's treat it as such anyway.
I am hostile but not because I think you want to start an argument. I am hostile because, after repeatedly saying so, you still don't understand that the Six Harmonies you are talking about is NOT Liu He Ba Fa.
The point you are making is precisely MY point.
In your opinion, your teacher knows every single thing. But that's your subjective opinion. You try to declare your Sifu as the only reliable authority, but there is no reason we should believe you or him.
Get the picture?
And I keep telling you Liu He Ba Fa is not the Six Harmonies you are talking about.
I live in Australia, for one thing.
Second, I don't know how rare your art is. Liu He Ba Fa, which I repeat is a completely different to the Six Harmonies you are talking about, has quite a few teachers around.
So, for the last time, Liu He Ba Fa (which translates to Six Harmonies + Eight Methods) is different from your Six Harmonies (which, strangely enough, translates to Six Harmonies; but without the Eight Methods).
Formosa Neijia
Green Belt
I would have to strongly disagree with that.
In Western terms, much of what either versions of the liuhe discuss could only be understood through what is known as spirituality. The concepts of wuji, taiji, sancai, sixiang, wuxing, liuhe, etc. are a type of Chinese science to be sure, but it's holistic nature makes it very different from Western science. From that perspective, it would most assuredly require a spiritual bent.
We often forget that traditional Chinese thinking is very, very different from contemporary Western thinking.
As to the link to Ms. Zorya, I would simply suggest a better source.
Oxy has pointed out many times now that there are two versions of the liuhe being discussed in the thread. Liuhebafa simply has it's own way of describing those concepts -- a way IMO that goes a bit beyond the more commonly thought of liuhe that lie at the basis of some more familiar arts like xingyiquan.
OP
OP
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
The six harmonies I posted are related to Xingyiquan and do not necessarily have anything to do with Liu He Ba Fa.
Not knowing Liu He Ba Fa I wold not know if there was anything similar to the XIngyiquan 6 harmonies.
But for the record I do know that Liu He Ba Fa (6 harmonies 8 methods) is not saying the samething as Xingyiquan 6 Harmonies
Formosa Neijia
Green Belt
Interesting. I wasn't aware that CMC's influenced had extended into Hong Kong LHBF circles.
As to the heavy emphasis on intent, the other three internal arts show different ways of using it that may shed some light on what you're describing as LHBF use of intent.
When I did xingyi a lot I also had a very forward feeling of intent and I felt at the time could roll over most anything that stood in my way. But my taiji teacher showed me that always having the yi (intent) pull you forward makes you pretty vulnerable to arts like taiji that value yielding. By yielding the xingyi intent could be swallowed whole and used against him if the xingyi guy isn't careful.
It seems to me (correct me if I'm wrong) that LHBF may blend the forward energy and intent of xingyi with the knowledge (possibly from taiji?) that only using such intent can be used against you. Therefore LHBF opens up a wider range of options.
I was always under the impression that this is why it was considered an amalgam of the three arts and yet slightly superior to those individually. It seems to be an attempt to make up for the deficiencies that each of those three arts have individually while saying something possibly unique in it's own way.
In any event, thanks for the info on this. LHBF is fascinating.
