lack of serious martial artists

[Kung Fu Wang]

In a wrestling match he definitely has a chance man,

One needs wrestling skill to take his opponent down. Mike Tyson has no wrestling skill.

Old MA masters always said, "In my area, I can ...". Nobody would say, "In all areas, I can ...".

 

[Diagen]

I'm here to make progress possible plain and simple. One must think critically about what goes into becoming a great fighter and no one wants to have that conversation. They want someone to TELL THEM how to become better but don't want to FIGURE IT THE F OUT. Where is the dialogue on the topic? On how to improve? Where is the discourse that creates knowledge and insight?

One needs wrestling skill to take his opponent down. Mike Tyson has no wrestling skill.

Well plenty people get by with physicality. Everyone has a baseline level of inate skill and that is higher in those with greater physicality and Mike Tyson has decent instincts. If you have two strong and aggressive men with similar enough weight, and one has more skill, sure. But what are we talking about here? 160 lbs with low strength and a lot of technique? No way. 160 lbs extremely strong and great technique? Okay he has a good chance of winning, I don't know what you call extremely strong and great technique though so who knows.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Well plenty people get by with physicality.

In the striking world, you may be right. In the wrestling world, it's different.

There is always a lucky knock down. There is no lucky take down.

In the wrestling world, technique is 50% and ability is another 50%. You can develop your body to have maximum strength, but if your technique level is 0, you highest score is still only 50.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

ADDRESS THE TOPIC
TELL ME HOW this discussion isn't about Mike Tyson, physicality and the Role of Anger. Stop side stepping the actual topic. JFC. MIKE TYSON. PHYSICALITY. ANGER. Please.

I'm honestly just poking fun more than anything. But for an actual answer to your first question: There are fighters that don't have anger issues. And then to answer your question here: how is this discussion not about Tyson/physicality/anger? Because the discussion was about trying to figure out why the OP was having difficulty either finding or motivating his students to take training more seriously. If you really want a discussion about that, the best option would be to start a new thread on the topic.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

the Role of Anger.

I was taught to act like a tiger and eat my opponent alive. I have never seen a tiger attacks a deer with anger.

 

[Diagen]

In the striking world, you may be right. In the wrestling world, it's different.

There is always a lucky punch. There is no lucky take down.

In wrestling too, free wrestlers tend to do well enough in MMA on the ground vs BJJ even. Not always but the sheer physicality is huge. Mike Tyson has decent strength in wrestling related areas of the body and decent instinct. Sometimes you in fact get a lucky leg to yank on and twist so you're wrong there mate. A lucky arm, lucky weight shift, that sort of thing. Luck isn't so much what it's about but physicality and ability to capitalize on opportunity though. I agree that the disadvantage from lack of skill can be vast in grappling though, and there's a lot of physicality required you can't get from other training. The strength from grappling is insanely well balanced.
Grappling is peak. Elite. Amazing.

I'm honestly just poking fun more than anything. But for an actual answer to your first question: There are fighters that don't have anger issues. And then to answer your question here: how is this discussion not about Tyson/physicality/anger? Because the discussion was about trying to figure out why the OP was having difficulty either finding or motivating his students to take training more seriously. If you really want a discussion about that, the best option would be to start a new thread on the topic.

I think anger is motivation without purpose. If all of it has been generated and purposed then the remaining anger is like an electron ocean in the body and like a fire, crackling and arcing. Such evolved anger is ELECTRIC. This is the way! For THIS is the proper physical manifestation of it for a martial artist and fighter! If you train people and don't engage them emotionally they don't know how they should act and then people don't put anything into it (or else complicate their life without direction) or they quit after a while. EMOTIONAL CONTENT! That is what is necessary for seriousness, for motivation, for direction! You must have the right EMOTIONAL CONTENT and understand its evolution!

 

[Diagen]

I was taught to act like a tiger and eat my opponent alive. I have never seen a tiger attacks a deer with anger.

lol you've never seen a tiger attack a deer man. You should see their faces sometimes though they're electric and full of anger. Very ferocious man they can look pretty terrifying haha. Read my post above as it relates!

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Sometimes you in fact get a lucky leg to yank on and twist so you're wrong there mate. A lucky arm, lucky weight shift, that sort of thing.

If you can get to my leg and I can't get my arm around your neck, your wrestling skill is better than mine. That's not luck. That's skill.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I think anger is motivation without purpose. If all of it has been generated and purposed then the remaining anger is like an electron ocean in the body and like a fire, crackling and arcing. Such evolved anger is ELECTRIC. This is the way! For THIS is the proper physical manifestation of it for a martial artist and fighter! If you train people and don't engage them emotionally they don't know how they should act and then people don't put anything into it (or else complicate their life without direction) or they quit after a while. EMOTIONAL CONTENT! That is what is necessary for seriousness, for motivation, for direction! You must have the right EMOTIONAL CONTENT and understand its evolution!

To be clear, this is all your opinion. You have no evidence that this is what should be done. Nor do you have experience doing it or evidence that martial artists do it, so it's a baseless opinion.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

lol you've never seen a tiger attack a deer man. You should see their faces sometimes though they're electric and full of anger. Very ferocious man they can look pretty terrifying haha. Read my post above as it relates!

Here's the first video I found of it.

The tiger just makes sure that the deer isn't escaping and literally waits for it to bleed out. Doesn't seem like there's any anger there to me.

Here's a video with a lot of the lead-up. I agree with part-the tiger's terrifying. But not angry. It's calmly, rationally, stalking it's prey waiting for a good position. That's not something you can do when angry.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

full of anger.

Sun Tzu said, "怒不兴兵 - you should not attack when you are angry."

The reason is simple. When you are angry, your emotion dominate your mind. You don't let the environment fact to help you to make the correct decision.

MA is all about planning. When you are angry, you can't plan well.

When you are

- not angry, you use groin kick to set up face punch.
- angry, you just punch to the face. Your chance of success will be low.

 

[Diagen]

If you can get to my leg and I can't get my arm around your neck, your wrestling skill is better than mine. That's not luck. That's skill.

Right. But physicality develops instincts, reflexes, and one trains the mind while using the body. So one can't say there is anyone without any skill. Sometimes a weakness is perceived but this can only be capitalized on with decent enough instinct and physicality, with decent enough mental presence. So yes, if you have a very good wrestler with decent enough physicality (strong 160 lbs) and even if Mike Tyson is mentally present, looked at some wrestling, and is afraid or hypervigilant rather, someone can take him down.

 

[Diagen]

Sun Tzu said, "怒不兴兵 - you should not attack when you are angry."

The reason is simple. When you are angry, your emotion dominate your mind. You don't let the environment fact to help you to make the correct decision.

MA is all about planning. When you are angary, you can't plan well.

But anger is not just the kind that clouds the mind but builds a scowl on your face while the mind is clear.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Ya'll angry you can't hide behind laughter.

I'm not in the least surprised that you can hear the laughter.

 

[Diagen]

Here's the first video I found of it.

The tiger just makes sure that the deer isn't escaping and literally waits for it to bleed out. Doesn't seem like there's any anger there to me.

Here's a video with a lot of the lead-up. I agree with part-the tiger's terrifying. But not angry. It's calmly, rationally, stalking it's prey waiting for a good position. That's not something you can do when angry.

It's weak prey though. No competition. Just an easy kill. Misses the point a bit. Ferocity can't be said to "not be anger" IN ESSENCE; only in practical discourse can we say such, to differentiate the two as it is a bit different.

Don't see the restraint and miss the essence. Don't see the transformation and miss what precedes it. Fighters are angry!

I'm not in the least surprised that you can hear the laughter.

After 30 laughter emojis I think my words stand on their own.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

It's weak prey though. No competition. Just an easy kill. Misses the point a bit. Ferocity can't be said to "not be anger" IN ESSENCE; only in practical discourse can we say such, to differentiate the two as it is a bit different.

Don't see the restraint and miss the essence. Don't see the transformation and miss what precedes it. Fighters are angry!


After 30 laughter emojis I think my words stand on their own.

I'm just responding to your point about how tigers hunt deer, and saying they do it with anger. This is how they hunt deer-they wait for the best opportunity, strike, and take it down as safely as they can. Not angrily.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

But anger is not just the kind that clouds the mind but builds a scowl on your face while the mind is clear.

So you use your anger face to scare your opponent.

Which one is more scary?

A stab a knife into B's chest with

- angry facial expression.
- no facial expression.
- a big smile on his face.

 

[Diagen]

EMOTIONAL CONTENT:

• Anger
• Fear
• Misery
• Hate
• Worry

If you can understand the role each has in a fighter and human in general you can individually conquer each IN ORDER TO EVOLVE.
ANGER: This is for work, explosiveness, motivation, speed, power, quickness of mind, quickness of eye (information and literally).
If you disagree you're wrong! Everyone who has gained in these metrics has used and experienced anger. You see, you first experience frustration. If you push it, you use and experience anger! Simple as that. Or you give up and try another time haha! Sometimes the emotions are hidden but they are there folks. It's like arguing over elemental forces.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

If you disagree you're wrong!

Glad you finally admit your philosophy. Good luck debating.

 

[Diagen]

I'm just responding to your point about how tigers hunt deer, and saying they do it with anger. This is how they hunt deer-they wait for the best opportunity, strike, and take it down as safely as they can. Not angrily.

Nah I said sometimes they are absolutely ferocious and have a very angry face. They didn't even show the tiger's face through the process so not sure how your statement works.

So you use your anger face to scare your opponent.

Which one is more scary?

A stab a knife into B's chest with

- angry facial expression.
- no facial expression.
- a big smile on his face.

It shapes the person, that's the point. Remember that. Smiley is angry. Maybe he's afraid too. Who knows. People experience multiple emotions at the same time, they're elemental forces.
Anger does not cloud the mind in the way that exercise does not cloud the body: OF COURSE IT DOES. Both cloud. But that's not the point. There is also clearing and the enlivening of the body, and there is the enlivening of structures. This too is anger, because it is force.
Every emotion can be 'purposed' to a physical task. A heavy deadlift may employ anger and one could have fumbled into this reality without much cognizance, right? But it is true. The anger is let off right before or when the deadlift is over and dissipates but it was there. Maybe this is therapeutic. If you have anger and you workout what happens? Relief. Many emotions can be worked through from physical exertions yet to complete the task requires anger. Sometimes something tragic happens and people are angry. Why? Because anger is forceful. Plain and simple!