lack of serious martial artists

[Diagen]

Glad you finally admit your philosophy. Good luck debating.

lol if I say such and you stop arguing it's not my fault mate.

 

[Dirty Dog]

After 30 laughter emojis I think my words stand on their own.

Actually, your voice seems rather muffled... I wonder what would cause that?

 

[Diagen]

Actually, your voice seems rather muffled... I wonder what would cause that?

The anger manifests itself finally. Perhaps you will do kneesovertoesguy exercises after a few more days of arguing.

 

[J. Pickard]

 

[Tez3]

The anger manifests itself finally. Perhaps you will do kneesovertoesguy exercises after a few more days of arguing.

No anger there, I think our forbearance with your attitude towards others is merely at an end.

 

[dunc]

@Diagen I can categorically state that some of the best fighters in the world do not get angry in a fight - I say this from personal experience
Generally speaking the more complex the situation (and life and death kind of situations are more complex and varied than say a boxing match), the more important problem solving becomes as a deciding factor
The more angry you get the more narrow your perspective (eg tunnel vision) and once that happens in a fight then you're toast
Joko Willink has some great material on this kind of thing if you're interested in exploring it further

 

[Cynik75]

Face of an anger:

 

[Steve]

So only people who agree with you, a non-fighter, can be a good fighter, while all those who don't, must automatically not have any clue about fighting? Impressive.

ADDRESS THE TOPIC
TELL ME HOW this discussion isn't about Mike Tyson, physicality and the Role of Anger. Stop side stepping the actual topic. JFC. MIKE TYSON. PHYSICALITY. ANGER. Please.

JFC: I like the extra crispy. Oh, sorry. That's KFC.
Mike Tyson: Is it true that Mike Tyson did very little strength training? I will admit it's been a LONG time since I've really thought about Mike Tyson. But I seem to recall he did a lot of cardio, some body weight exercises, and that's about it.
Physicality: Traits are what we're born with. Skills are what we learn. As my grandpa used to say, "You can teach a pig to climb a tree, but sometimes it's better to just get a squirrel."
Anger: Speaking just for me. I don't think it's all that helpful. In my experience, anger is often the outward expression of something else: inadequacy, frustration, sadness, depression, embarrassment, etc. When folks get angry, they are doing so because something else is actually going on. You fix that other thing and you'll be much happier.

 

[Dirty Dog]

The anger manifests itself finally. Perhaps you will do kneesovertoesguy exercises after a few more days of arguing.

So in your mind, a person who finds your silliness to be, well, SILLY, is angry?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Maybe more on-point: One can notice a loss of functioning or at least a difference of functioning so what you said didn't make sense. If one uses a part of their brain enough for some rigid study like mathematics, becoming a national competitor, what do you think happens to the cross-chatter and myelin sheething? I recall when studying this kind of stuff years ago that cross-chatter decreases with mastery, and you mention the same about skill acquisition in regards to myelin.

What you're talking about is literally the process that leads to increased myelin production on a given pathway. I'm not sure why you seem to think this is somehow contrary to anything I've said.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I'm not a teenager but they can. There are completely dysfunctional adults, for one. What metric can a teenager not outdo an adult? Please inform me.

If you mean it's possible to find a teen who is better than an adult at something, sure. But the likelihood of it is low, since on average, adults have advantages in nearly every area. Young adults have more advanced muscle development than teens and usually better coordination. Adults' brains have completed development and have more defined pathways for the things they do regularly, so are typically better at processing.

There are areas where the juvenile brain has advantages, like neuroplasticity. So teens have an advantage over middle-aged adults in basic learning, though it's unclear how much advantage they have over young adults (who retain more neurplasticity). Specifically, they have an advantage in language learning - it seems the brain loses some ability to develop auditory distinction (the ability to distinguish new language sounds) by early adutlhood.

And teens certainly have an edge (probably even over young adults) in physical healing.

But teens, in general, cannot outdo adults, in general. Group to group, not looking at exceptional cases (because then we'd have to look at exceptional cases in both groups).

 

[Gerry Seymour]

How do you read that from my words? Is it that if there were no brain basis for their behavior that responsibility for their behavior would fall solely onto their will and person? That's a societal or social matter and amounts to politics and culture. Wouldn't this suggest you want there to be some explanation for their behavior in physiology in order to legitimize a culture and politics of tolerance? Why would you need physiology for that?

Are you learning the psychology of the 1950's??

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Alright how about this:
Anger can create relevant and beneficial physiological phenomena such as hormones, nervous system 'arousal' (alertness, power, not lust unless that's the situation), et cetera, and seems to help orient and propel one towards a goal. If the 'goal' is unclear, perhaps anger is in the way.
Now do you understand me?

Actually, anger tends to override the part of the brain that focuses on long-term outcomes. So the "goal" anger tends to focus you on is likely not at all the goal you'd choose consciously.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

The people that don't like anger tend to not like achieving much either. You want to talk about martial arts with them and they tend to want to talk about you, themselves, and the world and everything else as well. In other words they don't really have the drive and worry more about social things at the cost of the goal. Their attention is diffuse and wandering.
Am I incorrect?

Yes, you are.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

for all I know phrenology has some basis in reality

This highlights an issue. It's pretty easy to find out that (and why) phrenology was dismissed long ago. Its predictions don't correlate well with outcomes, and newer models are much better predictively, and align with what we know from following injury case studies.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

You aren't even open to COGNIZING how anger relates to performance how the hell can you know anything about how anger relates to function or force? If emotion has no function or force to you then you're dead wrong. What do you think is behind ruthlessness for that matter? Do you think being cutthroat has no anger driving it? Ridiculous assumptions about achievers, drive, people and anger mate it doesn't even make sense. You talk about anger is if everyone with anger cannot use their brain. What about hate? Can someone with hate use their brain? Your assumptions about the interior of people and what can be accomplished while emotions are involved is really really ignorant.
Incredibly ignorant. What do you know about what people feel? Many intellectuals and goal-oriented people are incredibly angry or hateful, often without expressing it. Many ruthless and cutthroat people are incredibly angry and hateful, without expressing it. What is this false contradiction you have laid out?
Can I not experience multiple emotions? Am I a raging berserker? Are you a peaceful saint? Who the hell can't experience multiple many different emotions at the same time? Who can't be angry and clear-headed? What is this profound insight you claim to have?

How about this: Where is the clarity for Mike Tyson? You know his mind huh? You don't think he's angry and aggressive and brings that into every workout? Can you tell me how Mike Tyson is doing it wrong? Keeping the conversation GROUNDED here.

The chemical process triggered by anger literally suppresses part of the brain's function.
And hate causes uncontrolled bias that distorts thinking.

Neither of those are good things. We all experience each of them from time to time, but it's difficult to come up with situations where either actually helps.

 

[Oily Dragon]

But anger is not just the kind that clouds the mind but builds a scowl on your face while the mind is clear.

That's not anger, that's RBF.

Easily mistaken for anger though, and usually because the beholder is the angry one.

 

[Flying Crane]

@J. Pickard, shame on you sir, for opening this thread. See what nonsense you have started??

 

[Diagen]

@Diagen I can categorically state that some of the best fighters in the world do not get angry in a fight - I say this from personal experience
Generally speaking the more complex the situation (and life and death kind of situations are more complex and varied than say a boxing match), the more important problem solving becomes as a deciding factor
The more angry you get the more narrow your perspective (eg tunnel vision) and once that happens in a fight then you're toast
Joko Willink has some great material on this kind of thing if you're interested in exploring it further

Just to be clear I know who Joko Willink is and have seen some of his stuff.
I would say that emotion evolves and transforms, and that anger is behind hard work, speed, and power, and especially martial arts. It's like channeling your emotions to the point you don't have them. I hope you understand and relate. At the very very end where you try and get the most out of anger or have it most channeled you get a lot of very useful things you may not recognize as anger due to how "derivative" it is but the source of the river is still there.
Problem solving generally involes the narrowing of perspective on each individual thing, and to focus and do anything requires that sort of anger. Malice can be anger, hate, whatever, but its nature is clear. Now, talking about the proper USE of anger and its transformation is quite interesting! But I think one has to address the paradigm I'm suggesting to have that conversation.
Do emotions turn into a cerebral force? A physical one? A mental one? A social one? A rational one? Do some lend themselves to fighting more? Do some lend themselves to grappling? Do some lend themselves to problem solving? Well for the latter I know that fear or the conquering of it tends to be involved, so how about that? You conquer fears and you get clarity and wiser decision making. It doesn't mean that fear has no role it's just conquered just as a heavy weight may be conquered. A heavy weight is still heavy but you may feel good at how strong you are by its relative lightness. But anger is explosive and higher internal pressure and this can mean quick decisions, so perhaps one should see how the conquering of anger and conquering of fear work together in a fighter?

 

[Diagen]

Face of an anger:
View attachment 27051

Looks more like hate. Think about it. Derision.