Kung fu in MMA Wins

[jayoliver00]

what if what you see as waste of energy is actually cardio and muscle endurance exercises not meant as fighting techniques but are used to help build fighting endurance. If that's the case would you still call it fluff? I'm not saying that's what it is, but in Jow Ga we integrate muscle training and muscle endurance in our forms. I know this because my legs will start burning, a get slower as my body fatigues and I breath really heavy from the cardio. I have some Jow Ga videos of a forms performance you can hear people in the background say. "Come on, push through, finish strong." They are saying that because they can see the person starting to fatigue.

This was always a thing of amusement of how a form could just zap the strength out you. And it never gets easier. Each form burns you out more than the previous form.

I'd rather work on my strikes for speed, power, precision, etc. Our gym is Brazilian owned so there was a Capoeira class of over 50 students by a Brazilian lady who's pretty well known. Man, they can't fight at all, unless they were crossover dudes from MT/MMA looking to pickup Capoeira girls (that were smokin') and some really good looking gay dudes too. It's just rare that they can use that in a fight.

I'm sure these techs aren't bad, but I'd rather spend my time & energy on something else. I'll do some Yoga once in a while, but not as a staple of my training. But Capoeira looks fun though, so maybe; although I can't train for free any longer since it's no longer at our gym, so I ain't paying for it.

 

[jayoliver00]

I would like to know too. From what I can tell, This is what's needed:
1. Control
2. Lighter staff or rules of no head shots or attacking the joints
3. Full body equipment from head to toe. The stuff you probably need and is reliable is probably super expensive unless you are rich. I'm not lol.

If you don't get lighter staffs that flex then there's no way you can do full contact with a staff safely. There's a couple of videos of people sparring with full body protection and their staff's still have a lot of flex.

Kung Fu weapons sparring

I don't care for the foam sparring weapons, they tend to cause people to do things that they wouldn't do if it were a live blade. I would definitely do #1 and #2 No strikes to the head or controlled strikes.

Maybe this if you go full contact foam bo staff and some protective equipment.

For the armor I would wear equipment designed for blunt impact. Unfortunately there's no dedicated company for this type of equipment. people tend to mix match martial arts or fencing protective equipment. Or lacrosse equipment.

Thanks again.

So something like those Kendo helmets can't take the full force of a full, non flexing staff?

Looks like it's more involved and expensive than I thought.

There are Medieval groups (SCA) that wear full metal armor and hit with full power. I heard that it doesn't hurt with that $2-5k armor on.

Don't discount foam swords though; just treat it like the real thing and not want to get hit at all.

 

[Oily Dragon]

It's about time, but not really.

You said it.

 

[Hanzou]

The truth of those quotes is about the mindset one should have when being violently attacked on the streets. So if I attack you in the streets, this is the mindset that you should have towards my well-being in the context of defending yourself. It doesn't take into consideration your ability. Even if you don't know how to fight. This is the mindset or the seriousness in which you should defend yourself against me. It doesn't mean you are going to make me drown in my blood, but you will attack me with that level of violence.

One's ability to do so is another issue. This is why these quotes are associated with the mindset that a person should have when dealing with a violent attacker.

Yes, and you're training constantly in an effort to increase your ability to deal violence onto someone else.

Back to the original point that started all of this; The Muay Thai fighter is more efficient at dealing violence than your typical Kung Fu stylist, because the latter simply has more fluff surrounding their training. However, both exponents are training towards the same goal; to be better fighters.

 

[Hanzou]

Thanks. Yeah, that's it, now I remember that he said something like that.

This guy's legit though. I sparred with him at a sparring meet of any style; it was just light sparring and he's good. This was right after I beat one of his top guys both standup and on the ground. They have some interesting angles & movements.

Not BS in terms of skill, but BS in terms of what their original teacher actually taught. It would appear that their grandmaster never actually learned the art he said he did, but he was good at martial arts in general. Some of his other disciples dropped the Tien Shien whatever and just said that they had learned Tai Chi or general Kung Fu.

Unfortunately that's fairly common in traditional Chinese and Japanese martial arts. Fortunately these guys at least seem to have some skill attached.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I'm sure these techs aren't bad, but I'd rather spend my time & energy on something else.

Probably why most of use are doing something else. lol.

 

[JowGaWolf]

You said it.

How's it going Oily?

 

[JowGaWolf]

So something like those Kendo helmets can't take the full force of a full, non flexing staff?

Nope. Kendo helmets are used for lighter weapons.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Indeed. However, my point is that when you’re taking up Tai Chi, very rarely is it advertised as a fighting art. It’s almost always advertised as an exercise to improve health.

On the other hand, Aikido for example is still pushed as a method of self defense. I’ve even seen some schools state that Aikido can help you overcome multiple attackers.

That's why I specifically mentioned Shin Shin Toitsu Aikido. There probably are some who teach it as a fighting style, but I haven't seen that wording in the stuff I've read. I'd have a hard time not classifying it as a martial art, but it seems to be almost entirely not about physical conflict at this point.

 

[JowGaWolf]

This guy's legit though. I sparred with him at a sparring meet of any style; it was just light sparring and he's good.

He moved like he knew what he was doing. He also tried some things that I rarely see kung fu people try unless they had some applicable advanced skills. Foot hooks are rarely shown outside of a demo and a non-resisting demo partner.

 

[Hanzou]

That's why I specifically mentioned Shin Shin Toitsu Aikido. There probably are some who teach it as a fighting style, but I haven't seen that wording in the stuff I've read. I'd have a hard time not classifying it as a martial art, but it seems to be almost entirely not about physical conflict at this point.

There appears to be a lot of stuff like this;

 

[Alan0354]

There appears to be a lot of stuff like this;

View attachment 27249

I really have not been following this thread, I said what I want to say already.

BUT THIS!!! This is what really really turn me off about kung fu. I've seen so many of those so called "master" love to demo this kind of stuff, telling people to try him as if this is of any use in real fight.

Some stupid guy did that to Bruce Lee and tell Lee to push, Bruce Lee went over......and punched him, he went flying. You are talking about a fight!!! You kick and you punch. You don't set in the right way and people push the way you want them to.

even over here, after I learned TKD, me and a friend went to watch a kung fu class, that teacher told me to do exactly the same thing. Me and my friend started smiling!!!!

They talk too much, and BS too much. Funny, my friend that was very good in Wing Chun and TKD back when I was in HK, he stuck out the left hand in the signature Wing Chun fighting stand and told us to push his hand and it won't move. But then you see in UFC 2, the Wing Chun guy used the same stand, did he got taken down in the first few seconds and got ground and pounded. Watch Xu Zaiodong beating the Wing Chun guy also, same thing.

 

[Flying Crane]

Some stupid guy did that to Bruce Lee and tell Lee to push, Bruce Lee went over......and punched him, he went flying. You are talking about a fight!!! You kick and you punch. You don't set in the right way and people push the way you want them to.

Well no. There was a group of kung fu guys talking about stance and rooting. They were showing and testing stance and root, and pushing on each other to show how the root engages and how it works and is used in technique. It was a more academic discussion.

In the middle of this, and without warning, Bruce punched one of them In the face, apparently to “prove a point,” which point is lost on me. I guess he said something like “when I fight I punch, I don’t push,” which of course was not the point of the discussion.

so what Bruce did was be a Dick.

 

[Alan0354]

Well no. There was a group of kung fu guys talking about stance and rooting. They were showing and testing stance and root, and pushing on each other to show how the root engages and how it works and is used in technique. It was a more academic discussion.

In the middle of this, and without warning, Bruce punched one of them In the face, apparently to “prove a point,” which point is lost on me. I guess he said something like “when I fight I punch, I don’t push,” which of course was not the point of the discussion.

so what Bruce did was be a Rick.

Yes, that's the whole point, you punch, you don't stand there and push. What is the stupid point of standing there so other people cannot push you? You face against a MMA or a boxer that dance around, stick and move, you get kill just standing there.

Why are the kung fu people so stupid and out of touch? Try learn something that can win a fight and they won't be a laughing stalk now.

AGAIN, learn how to win a fight in UFC, then you can talk until the cows come home. If not, shut up and learn.

AND PLEASE, do NOT give me the excuse those people in UFC are talented, that's why they are good fighter. You mean to tell me those kung fu is so bad they cannot attract any talented people at all?


AND DO NOT tell me people don't go fight in UFC because they don't get pay until they win enough. This is the SAME for everyone else, nobody get paid until they get up there in ranks. They ALL have to pay their own way to fight. STOP MAKING EXCUSES and go fight and win.

 

[Flying Crane]

Yes, that's the whole point, you punch, you don't stand there and push. What is the stupid point of standing there so other people cannot push you? You face against a MMA or a boxer that dance around, stick and move, you get kill just standing there.

it was an academic discussion about theory, not meant to be direct application at that moment.

It is as if you and I are discussing technique, and in the middle of the discussion, without warning, in the middle of your sentence, I punch you in the face and tell you, “when I fight I punch, I don’t talk.”

doing that would make me a Dick. That is what Bruce did.

 

[Steve]

it was an academic discussion about theory, not meant to be direct application at that moment.

It is as if you and I are discussing technique, and in the middle of the discussion, without warning, in the middle of your sentence, I punch you in the face and tell you, “when I fight I punch, I don’t talk.”

doing that would make me a Dick. That is what Bruce did.

You can be a dick, and also be right. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

 

[Alan0354]

it was an academic discussion about theory, not meant to be direct application at that moment.

It is as if you and I are discussing technique, and in the middle of the discussion, without warning, in the middle of your sentence, I punch you in the face and tell you, “when I fight I punch, I don’t talk.”

doing that would make me a Dick. That is what Bruce did.

To show how STUPID those kung fu people were?

I am surprise after 50 years, they still refuse to learn. Bruce Lee is just the first step to go to Mixed Martial Arts. Now MMA absolutely kick their butts, they resort to making excuses.

 

[Flying Crane]

To show how STUPID those kung fu people were?

I am surprise after 50 years, they still refuse to learn. Bruce Lee is just the first step to go to Mixed Martial Arts. Now MMA absolutely kick their butts, they resort to making excuses.

How does it show how stupid we are? Do you ever break down technique and discuss the components and the theory? Are you stupid too?

 

[Alan0354]

You can be a dick, and also be right. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

Bruce Lee was like the forefront of MMA, he combined Tae Kwon Do(best kicking) and Boxing(best hands) with some Wing Chun( his origin). The MMA now added Muy Thai, BJJ and Wrestling to what Bruce Lee started.

 

[Alan0354]

How does it show how stupid we are? Do you ever break down technique and discuss the components and the theory? Are you stupid too?

Stupid to stand there and let people push to show he cannot be moved. This is NOT one incident, I personally saw quite a few times. Why are they wasting time to even practice not being moved? Do they have a brain?

What is kung fu for? To kick butt, that's it. Don't make it anything else. Like I said many times, you want grace and artistic, go do ballet. MA is art of kicking butt. Two people walk in, one person walk out. Stop talking, train someone that is talent enough to use the kung fu style to win some fights in the octagon. AND stop making excuses.