Kosho Shorei Ryu Kempo

[GAB]

M. C. Busman,

Ah, now that I have your attention, (I think you missed it, because of your post to Seig) Did you see my post regarding the sad story of a man who claimed to have created the crest of ED Parker and received no credit and then hung himself, by accident or not.

I wonder If I should contact JWW and try and follow this up? For those who would ask why? Because, it is out there. Needs to be discussed and put to rest.

How about the information on the Dick Tercell Story, can you comment on
the article Will wrote or????

Regards, Gary

 

[GAB]

Hi Shawn,

I don't know why your request didn't get my attention before this last couple of posts.

You addressed LEO's so I should have at least responded, I hope better late and all that.

Not to be quite so blunt as M.C. But...

The idea that what you read in the newspaper is all true, is about how I would relate the information that is contained in transcripts. There is truth and the story is there but it is generally not all of the story, especially when you are relating it to something like the life of a man as complex as J. Mitose.

I do not think even the lamest DA or PA would be so bad as to let alot of the information that has been claimed to be in the transcripts as has been claimed. It just is not per court rules and I am sure the Judge was not biased in the first place to allow heresay and other non facts into the case.

I believe the system needs some changes but the courts are a funny location to start the change, it needs to start at the very base of the legal system and that is in Law Enforcement. Training, learning the proper procedures to win a case, not just to arrest the person, and then let the courts sort it out.

It should start with a better acadamy, like I say training. Lots of smaller forces don't have proper training, don't have proper people, who want to be in the front lines.

In the bigger Departments, they have a lot more training because they have much more crime and every type of problem known to man is occuring on a daily bases.

So anyway, to answer your question, 100% is not even close, neither is 75%. IMO Statistics would back me up, if you would want to go there, but I will pass on that one.

Regards, Gary

 

[Karazenpo]

Hi Shawn,

I don't know why your request didn't get my attention before this last couple of posts.

You addressed LEO's so I should have at least responded, I hope better late and all that.

Not to be quite so blunt as M.C. But...

The idea that what you read in the newspaper is all true, is about how I would relate the information that is contained in transcripts. There is truth and the story is there but it is generally not all of the story, especially when you are relating it to something like the life of a man as complex as J. Mitose.

I do not think even the lamest DA or PA would be so bad as to let alot of the information that has been claimed to be in the transcripts as has been claimed. It just is not per court rules and I am sure the Judge was not biased in the first place to allow heresay and other non facts into the case.

I believe the system needs some changes but the courts are a funny location to start the change, it needs to start at the very base of the legal system and that is in Law Enforcement. Training, learning the proper procedures to win a case, not just to arrest the person, and then let the courts sort it out.

It should start with a better acadamy, like I say training. Lots of smaller forces don't have proper training, don't have proper people, who want to be in the front lines.

In the bigger Departments, they have a lot more training because they have much more crime and every type of problem known to man is occuring on a daily bases.

So anyway, to answer your question, 100% is not even close, neither is 75%. IMO Statistics would back me up, if you would want to go there, but I will pass on that one.

Regards, Gary

Gary, Mitose was not complex. All LEO's have run acroos men like him in their carreers. Very easy to figure out, although some are not violent, some are and some are more violent then others, but a con man is a con man, it's like watching reruns on T.V. or listening to the same song over and over again. Nothing surprising. Nothing complex about it. Court records? Transcripts? Probation officer reports? People that knew him? Put it all together and that is Mitose the man. We're just trying to figure out his martial arts background and lineage. Have doubts about court transcripts? Check out Ted Bundy's, Charles Manson's, tells a lot about the man I think. Okay, they were found guilty. Let's look at those found innocent but who the vast majority believe were guilty. How about O.J.? Jury found him innocent but if one was to read the court transcripts they would get a very good and accurate representation of the 'man'. No what I mean?

 

[BlackCatBonz]

prof joe
in cases were certain criminals were put away and then exonerated due to DNA or other evidence......the lawyers paint a pretty convincing picture of criminal and ugly behaviour to have a jury of their peers put them away in the first place.
also when i was watching a special on some news show.....a forensic scientist said that you could pretty much implicate anyone that lived in 10 block radius of a murder using certain investigating methods.
im not making this stuff up.
so please give me a break

shawn

 

[John Bishop]

prof joe
in cases were certain criminals were put away and then exonerated due to DNA or other evidence
shawn

You probably don't want DNA evidence in the Mitose case. Frank Namimatsu had hairs stuck to the blood on his hands. The hair comparison techniques of the time (1974) showed the hairs to have come from a Asian, but not either of the Namimatsu's. Since Terry Lee was black, whose hairs might those be? They were consistant with James Mitose's hairs, but not a 100% match like modern DNA would have provided.

 

[BlackCatBonz]

how can you possibly be sure without DNA testing........wouldnt you think that a japanese man would fraternize with many other japanese? consistent with mitose? how many people do you think spent the remainder of their lives in prison due to consistencies?
like i said before, and i will bring up a case from canada.......a man named guy paul morin was accused of murdering his 8 year old female neighbour by the name of chritsine jessop.......he spent 10 years in prison trying to convince them he didnt do it.....DNA evidence saved him.....what was the investigating teams only evidence? hair and clothing fibres.....like i said, i need something a little more concrete than simply asian hairs that belonged to neither victim or accused. anyone can paint an evil picture of someone else......look how easy it is to paint one of the god loving catholic church lately.

shawn

 

[GAB]

Hi Shawn,

You are right, many things to consider when you are a juror and have, only opinions or information in front of you that someone else feels is relevent to settle the case.

We seem to forget that Lawyers and Jurisprudence is a large business.

The asian hairs, I have heard of it before on this board. Am not sure if I related the thought that Mitose's sister was friendly with Terry Lee?

That is something to consider. Why Mitose had so little in his defense, regarding his own statements, the confusing remarks and his inability to understand the english language in a court of law.
He felt that he was responsible, even if he was not the killer he would still bear the burden, just because of the custom of his generation.

I am not saying that he is not guilty, just throwing out some thoughts.
In the eyes of the court, and the world he is guilty.
Until some other evidence is brought forward or someone, comes up and confesses, he is the guilty party.:whip:

Hanshi Bruce trained with Terry Lee, to get a couple of the Kata's that Mitose taught Terry Lee. Who knows what was said, except those two and neither is talking.
I am not sure if he trained with Mitose's sister or not, but who knows what was said between those two, one is dead and the other is not talking.:idunno:

We will just have to wait until the Gathering and see what happens then.

Again like I have said before, Johnny Cochran was the DA at the time for Terry Lee, and we know all about Johnny. Good DA, that is for sure.:asian:

Regards, Gary

 

[Gojuguy]

Regarding the Gathering. My understanding that there is much unrest in the Kai. Some of it concerning Mitose and some of it concerning high ranking members on both the East and West Coast turning their Shihan ranks back in to Hanshi Juchnik. Any truth to the rumours?

 

[kelly keltner]

I am unaware of anything like that.

kelly

 

[BlackCatBonz]

i will say this about the kai from my point of view, hanshi bruce is a great organizer and an even greater teacher.....but, he does not put up with any funny business. i am in no way speaking for hanshi juchnik, i have the greatest respect for him, as he has shown me nothing but the greatest respect a teacher can have for a student on the few occasions that i have had the opportunity to train with him.
you will see dissension in the ranks of any organization.
i personally think that the members of our organization should concern themselves with kosho-2004 and what is happening right now. learn from the past.....but let it go.
this is something westerners have a tough time doing. i have let politics affect me in the past, but in the end, im in it for me, and the students that i might teach along the way. no one person should follow another blindly as in the old traditions, but one should still afford the head of a system the respect their position deserves.
we have somewhat of a different viewpoint up here in canada though, and yes....there are a few of us that have agreed to disagree.....but i think thats what happens with individuals, and no one is forcing them to stay or go.
the principles in kosho as it is taught right now are all that matters, and probably to the chagrin of others that are out there that think mitose was an evil man, i teach the same principles that he talked about in his book "what is self defense?"
they are lessons for all to live by. we should not look at ones bad part, but rather the good that is in him.

shawn

 

[Karazenpo]

prof joe
in cases were certain criminals were put away and then exonerated due to DNA or other evidence......the lawyers paint a pretty convincing picture of criminal and ugly behaviour to have a jury of their peers put them away in the first place.
also when i was watching a special on some news show.....a forensic scientist said that you could pretty much implicate anyone that lived in 10 block radius of a murder using certain investigating methods.
im not making this stuff up.
so please give me a break

shawn

Shawn, now you have to give me a break and John Bishop too. We're all on the same playing field in the martial arts and I take your input on the martial art side of Mitose with much thought and credence, however, when you get into the criminal justice system, respectfully, you're out of your league. John can speak for himself but I have nearly three decades in the system and the trouble today with a lot of arm chair quarterbacking is television. For ratings and dramatic effect all these television shows are coming on giving those with no experience in the field a doctorate's degree in criminal justice and criminology without ever leaving their living rooms. Yes, the system can be somewhat flawed at times, like in everything else in life nothing is 100 per cent and nothing is perfect and innocent people have got screwed just as guilty people have been exonerated but having said this, the system works very well. If you know of a better one, please let us know. Now, when it comes to the debate on Mitose's background, I think it's very interesting and I'm open minded and I always listen to what others have to say BUT you people lose crediability and open themselves up for criticism when they start on the Mitose was framed, Mitose was innocent, Mitose didn't speak good english and couldn't express himself at trial, Mitose was railroaded because of the Charles Manson case and the jury thought he was another cult leader, blah, blah, blah. Just accept the fact that he was guilty as sin and let's just discuss his martial arts background. If you feel he's been railroaded then get together with all of those that do and petition the state of California to re-open the case, it's not impossible, it's been done before. If there's anything there, it can be done. If there are those that really and truly believe he was innocent and are equally committed as they make off they are, get a slush fund going and do it, better yet, there are most likely some lawyers in Kosho who will offer their services for nothing. Go for it, other than that please let's stick to Mitose: 'The Martial Artist' where the jury is still out.

 

[Kosho-Monk]

Regarding the Gathering. My understanding that there is much unrest in the Kai. Some of it concerning Mitose and some of it concerning high ranking members on both the East and West Coast turning their Shihan ranks back in to Hanshi Juchnik. Any truth to the rumours?

GojuGuy,

I just spoke with Hanshi Juchnik on the phone and mentioned your comment to him. He told me that all of the shihans are turning in their belts as this is not going to be used any longer in our kai. A "shihan" in our organization is a job title. It has nothing to do with rank. Different job titles are going to be used. Hanshi has already spoken to all of his shihans about this.

He also said that there is no unrest in the kai. There has been a steady growth of new members and only one person has left. I will speak for myself and say that I am very happy belonging to his organization and being a student of one of the most talented martial artists in the world.

He is extremely busy with the Gathering only a week away and we couldn't talk as long as I would have liked to. But I can assure you (and everyone else reading this) that Hanshi Juchnik's organization is going just fine. Some changes are being made and will become clearer to all kai members during and after the Gathering.

If someone is a member of the Sei Kosho Shorei Kai Intl. then you will find out soon, if you don't already know. If you are not a member then you shouldn't care anyway.


Take care,
John Evans (this is my real name.... what's yours?)

 

[BlackCatBonz]

prof joe
the legal system used today is an archaic throwback to ancient rome......flash forward a few years , you still have the witch hunts and executions.

is what i said in my other post wrong?
did i say mitose was innocent?

people only seem to read the half of my post that gets their knickers in bind

shawn

 

[Karazenpo]

prof joe
the legal system used today is an archaic throwback to ancient rome......flash forward a few years , you still have the witch hunts and executions.

is what i said in my other post wrong?
did i say mitose was innocent?

people only seem to read the half of my post that gets their knickers in bind

shawn

Hi Shawn, I still say, although flawed, we still have the best system in the world. When I think of archaic systems, I think of the middleeastern countries-now that's archaic. As far as throwbacks to archaic civilizations, everything has roots just like in the arts. Everything we have or do comes from somewhere many centuries ago. Isn't our country based on Judeo/Christian values of over 2000 years ago, so what's wrong with that? You say our system is archaic and is a throwback from ancient Rome, okay, Kosho Ryu is archaic and is a thowback from the 1940's and is uselss today...I don't really mean that at all but my point is just like Kosho has evolved to fit the practicality of the 21st century so hasn't our legal system and it can't be compared to what was done in ancient Rome! On the other issue, if I misunderstood your post I apologize but I went back to read it and it still appears to me you're grabbing at straws in an effort to defend Mitose's and either prove or raise questions of his innocense. If that was your intent then I feel my response addressed it. Good discussion, Shawn!, You're round, lol.

 

[BlackCatBonz]

prof joe

i mean no disrespect...honest!
you're kind of on track in regards to my post......but my line of thought was not merely to raise questions or prove innocence. it was simply an example of the way that things can (and do) go wrong. this not only applies to mitose, but in everything we do. hence my comments about learning from the past, and letting the past go.
what i am trying to say is this- in our personal investigations of the arts and the things that pertain to them, let's not make the same mistakes that were made before. its like teaching something wrong on purpose, and then showing the right way, so you can see the difference....sometimes its minor.....sometimes its a whole world of difference. the problem lies in the fact that we can miss something even when its right in front of you....by getting caught up in the miniscule details.

shawn

ps. i have the utmost respect for people that work in law enforcement, but, just because someone doesnt work in a particular field, it doesnt mean that they are completely uneducated on the subject, and just because someone works in that field does not make them all knowledgable either.

 

[Karazenpo]

prof joe

i mean no disrespect...honest!
you're kind of on track in regards to my post......but my line of thought was not merely to raise questions or prove innocence. it was simply an example of the way that things can (and do) go wrong. this not only applies to mitose, but in everything we do. hence my comments about learning from the past, and letting the past go.
what i am trying to say is this- in our personal investigations of the arts and the things that pertain to them, let's not make the same mistakes that were made before. its like teaching something wrong on purpose, and then showing the right way, so you can see the difference....sometimes its minor.....sometimes its a whole world of difference. the problem lies in the fact that we can miss something even when its right in front of you....by getting caught up in the miniscule details.

shawn

ps. i have the utmost respect for people that work in law enforcement, but, just because someone doesnt work in a particular field, it doesnt mean that they are completely uneducated on the subject, and just because someone works in that field does not make them all knowledgable either.

Shawn saids. i have the utmost respect for people that work in law enforcement, but, just because someone doesnt work in a particular field, it doesnt mean that they are completely uneducated on the subject, and just because someone works in that field does not make them all knowledgable either.

I say: No Shawn, I do respect your opinion on this topic even though it's not your field. Sometimes, I need someone outside my field to get me thinking again, if you know what I mean. We can get locked into our own beliefs and that's not a good thing. That's why I try to stay open minded the best I can. However, by the same token, I hope people understand or at least take into consideration that we, in law enforcement, have 'been there and done that' and should be taken a little more into consideration than the average joe. I don't mean that arrogantly but just because it's our field of expertise.

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

This thread still going? Wow. When you guys hit the truth, e-mail me.

Dave

 

[Karazenpo]

This thread still going? Wow. When you guys hit the truth, e-mail me.

Dave

Dave, it will never happen. Why? For some there is too much hanging in the difference. Some have built a financial empire on the Mitose myths and there is no way their going to let it go. Others got committed over their heads and/or are just following blindly as did Terry Lee over three decades ago. Some will post responses slamming me for saying this but like you stated:This thread still going? Wow. When you guys hit the truth, e-mail me. Dave, I thiok I'm taking your advice.

 

[GAB]

Hi Dave and Joe,

We can't let this go until the news is out, and it is very close to becoming
"I told you so", but which one of us is going to say it?

Then which one is going to start a different thread to refute that?

Regards, Gary

 

[GAB]

To All,

We have quite a bit of information about a lot of the stuff that has been covered and it will be forth coming at the Gathering.

I have said this several times, no one is listening, so this will be the last time I say it. Less then 10 days away till it will be pretty well covered. Or covered over?

Actually less then that when it will be revealed, then it will take a few days to gather it all for the internet, then the news will be old news and we/you/them can say that it is not true either. Or so I have been told.

Regards, Gary