Kosho Shorei Ryu Kempo

[The Kai]

What tag team are you talking about? If you have more info why hold it back?


As far as the herb thing random thought would not be better for a spy to be unnoticed?
So Where's the temple?
Where are the pic's of a dissimiliar Mitose?
Gary< Why would I lie about being to the Gathering? And why the hell are you calling me a liar? maybe I too, am complex?
Todd

 

[GAB]

Todd,
I am not calling you anything of the kind, Random thoughts, yes, I have those also, then I type them in and I get into trouble.:idunno:

I am not trying to cause problems, just give some thoughts and information.
Yes, we are all fairly complex. Kell calls it an agenda.:asian:

Here is a random thought, you and I just turned blue belt on MartialTalk board, talking on the same thread, kind of like classmates?:uhyeah:
Pass the cerveza & cuervo gold, lime and salt.artyon:

Regards, Gary

 

[The Kai]

.:asian:

Here is a random thought, you and I just turned blue belt on MartialTalk board, talking on the same thread, kind of like classmates?:uhyeah:
Pass the cerveza & cuervo gold, lime and salt.artyon:

Regards, Gary

Ironic but true, we'll argue and fuss our way up to black belt yet, I'm in wisconsin, so I go with Beer and Brats
Todd

 

[M.C. Busman]

Greg wrote: "Yes, I think Mitose was a very complex individual, based on his teachings, then his criminal side that has been brought forth, also his claiming to be a minister (I think there is information that will show he was in fact one), he was probabley a double agent (spy) then turned traitor (japan)."

O.K., Mitose testified during his trial that he ordered his divinity certificate through the mail for a fee. He also had to submit a thesis. He admitted that he did not write this thesis himself because his English was so bad (I don't have the exact page now guys). So, unless you accept that Mitose was a minister 'cause he said he were one, there is nothing else to go on.

On the spy thing. Al Tracy first came out with this wild theory a few years ago and posted it on the Tracy website. It was unsupported then, and it is unsupported now. Look at the period of time. Mitose was occupied doing other things. I don't think he would have had a heck of a lot to report on...

Best 2 Ya,

M.C. Busman

 

[M.C. Busman]

Some new documentation on Mitose and his alleged time in Japan. I haven't seen the physical records, but they are a source--I don't think it's somethin' someone would just make up, but for now....

http://www.sanjosekenpo.com./articles.htm

...first article @ the top.


Take Care,

M.C. Busman

 

[Doc]

Some new documentation on Mitose and his alleged time in Japan. I haven't seen the physical records, but they are a source--I don't think it's somethin' someone would just make up, but for now....

http://www.sanjosekenpo.com./articles.htm

...first article @ the top.


Take Care,

M.C. Busman

Same site as the "Parker Exposé" and same crap to promote their own unique perspective of history. Anyone who would go to the lengths that the Tracy's did to remove themselves from the Parker Lineage to place themselves directly in the Mitose Lineage says it all.

For the record Jimmy Woo and Parker simply had a disagreement over an oversight and parted company. Like thats never happend before. No skulldulgary, theft, or back stabbing just a misunderstanding that Parker admitted to.

 

[John Bishop]

For the record Jimmy Woo and Parker simply had a disagreement over an oversight and parted company. Like thats never happend before. No skulldulgary, theft, or back stabbing just a misunderstanding that Parker admitted to.

Funny, on James Wing Woo's own website, he dosen't mention anything about bad feelings, or bad business deals. He merely says that he and Mr. Parker collaberated on a book together. And when they found a publisher, he refused to pay any up front fees or royalities. So he (Woo) decided he didn't want to be involved in the deal, so Mr. Parker was left to sell the book.

 

[Doc]

Funny, on James Wing Woo's own website, he dosen't mention anything about bad feelings, or bad business deals. He merely says that he and Mr. Parker collaberated on a book together. And when they found a publisher, he refused to pay any up front fees or royalities. So he (Woo) decided he didn't want to be involved in the deal, so Mr. Parker was left to sell the book.

As usual "O' Wise one with much patience," you are correct. Parker and Woo separated on good terms. Later on when the book came out, Woo made a simple inquiry about a lack of a reference for the source of a great deal of the information. Although Parker stated that there was in fact a reference to Jimmy Woo in the book as a "source," the publishers edited much of the content of what for them was a risky book venture, and Parker apologized for the "oversight" even though Woo himself pulled out of the transaction. At that time Woo was already gone and, as you stated, there were no "bad feelings." Many tried to make a big deal out of two of Parker's black belts leaving and choosing to continue with Jimmy Woo. Parker's reply was simply, "He knows more than me about the Chinese Arts, so why not?" Ed Parker had students come and go all the time like most teachers.

 

[M.C. Busman]

Yeah, it is funny. In an November 1990 interview with Lilia I. Howe entitled "James Wing Woo: Kung Fu's Unknown Pioneer" published in Inside Kung Fu, Woo is quoted:

[....]"We moved back to China in 1928, which was where I trained. I had returned to the United States years later, and hadn't planned on exploiting my martial arts knowledge. What happened was I met a guy in Northern California who induced me to move south to the Hollywood area. He wanted to write a book with me. The guy ended up taking my work and running with it--I never got any credit--but the students all wanted to study with me." (34)

It's good to see that 14 years after this aricle was published Mr. Woo has his own website. see: http://www.tecnoscan.com/sifu/

What is really funny is that he never mentions the "Kenpo Instructor" by name. Why would two men who made a clean break and had nothing against each other not mention one another by name? Hmmm.

Doc wrote in part: "At that time Woo was already gone and, as you stated, there were no "bad feelings." Many tried to make a big deal out of two of Parker's black belts leaving and choosing to continue with Jimmy Woo. Parker's reply was simply, "He knows more than me about the Chinese Arts, so why not?" Ed Parker had students come and go all the time like most teachers."

Maybe more choose to ignore the facts and stick with a version of history that has unfortunately been "sanitized for your protection".

James Wing Woo was never mentioned as a source in "Secrets of Chinese Karate" by Ed Parker. At least not my 1963 and 1966 hardback editions published by Prentice-Hall, Inc. of Englewood Cliffs, NJ. We read an excerpt from the Acknowledgements of the author:

"The author wishes to expres his gratitude and appreciation to Dr. William C.C. Hu for his generous advice and contributions on much of the technical data in this book. His excellent knowledge of Chinese history was a tremendous aid in authenticating and documenting it.
"The author is also grateful to James Y. Lee whose ideas and translations have also made this book possible. His words of encouragement and his assistance in allowing the author to quote a few paragraphs from his book are greatly appreciated.
"Thanks also go to James McQuade for his patience and talent in illustrating this book; to the author's brother David P. Parker for his drawings of the popular stories of Chinese martial art history; to those who have endorsed this book--Joe Hyams, Nick Adams, Blake Edwards, and Terry Hunt; and all others who have helped in its preparation." (5-6)

Narry a mention for the man who claims to have "writ[ten] the book together" with Parker. Odd, huh? Maybe I missed the name "Woo" somewhere. Or maybe Parker did all the work and Woo is just trying to take half the credit, now that Parker has passed on (personally, I don't think so--but it is an alternate theory for Parker true believers to consider). Or maybe there was some other kenpo instructor (not Parker) who induced Woo to move to So Cal, teach gratis at his schools, and write a book with him. And maybe he and this other kenpo instructor guy parted ways in 1961, too. The 2-kenpo instructor guy theory doesn't appeal to me though. Call me a skeptic, I think there was just 1 kenpo guy.

Neither man will/would name the other. Those don't sound like very good terms to me. Maybe tactful avoidance.


Keep up the Good Work!

M.C. Busman

p.s. for interested parties: I am not now nor have I ever been a member of the Tracy Kenpo line, or a student under someone who is or was (as far as I know!).

p.s.s., anyone care to point out how the Tracy's have removed themselves from the Parker lineage? http://www.tracyskarate.com/Tracytree/treemstpage.htm

p.s.s.t., is anything posted on or linked-to from a Tracy's Kenpo site now considered unreliable/verboten by association? They're far from correct about everything (the Yoshida stuff, f'rinstance )..but c'mon.

 

[Doc]

Yeah, it is funny. In an November 1990 interview with Lilia I. Howe entitled "James Wing Woo: Kung Fu's Unknown Pioneer" published in Inside Kung Fu, Woo is quoted:

[....]"We moved back to China in 1928, which was where I trained. I had returned to the United States years later, and hadn't planned on exploiting my martial arts knowledge. What happened was I met a guy in Northern California who induced me to move south to the Hollywood area. He wanted to write a book with me. The guy ended up taking my work and running with it--I never got any credit--but the students all wanted to study with me." (34)

It's good to see that 14 years after this aricle was published Mr. Woo has his own website. see: http://www.tecnoscan.com/sifu/

What is really funny is that he never mentions the "Kenpo Instructor" by name. Why would two men who made a clean break and had nothing against each other not mention one another by name? Hmmm.

Doc wrote in part: "At that time Woo was already gone and, as you stated, there were no "bad feelings." Many tried to make a big deal out of two of Parker's black belts leaving and choosing to continue with Jimmy Woo. Parker's reply was simply, "He knows more than me about the Chinese Arts, so why not?" Ed Parker had students come and go all the time like most teachers."

Maybe more choose to ignore the facts and stick with a version of history that has unfortunately been "sanitized for your protection".

James Wing Woo was never mentioned as a source in "Secrets of Chinese Karate" by Ed Parker. At least not my 1963 and 1966 hardback editions published by Prentice-Hall, Inc. of Englewood Cliffs, NJ. We read an excerpt from the Acknowledgements of the author:

"The author wishes to expres his gratitude and appreciation to Dr. William C.C. Hu for his generous advice and contributions on much of the technical data in this book. His excellent knowledge of Chinese history was a tremendous aid in authenticating and documenting it.
"The author is also grateful to James Y. Lee whose ideas and translations have also made this book possible. His words of encouragement and his assistance in allowing the author to quote a few paragraphs from his book are greatly appreciated.
"Thanks also go to James McQuade for his patience and talent in illustrating this book; to the author's brother David P. Parker for his drawings of the popular stories of Chinese martial art history; to those who have endorsed this book--Joe Hyams, Nick Adams, Blake Edwards, and Terry Hunt; and all others who have helped in its preparation." (5-6)

Narry a mention for the man who claims to have "writ[ten] the book together" with Parker. Odd, huh? Maybe I missed the name "Woo" somewhere. Or maybe Parker did all the work and Woo is just trying to take half the credit, now that Parker has passed on (personally, I don't think so--but it is an alternate theory for Parker true believers to consider). Or maybe there was some other kenpo instructor (not Parker) who induced Woo to move to So Cal, teach gratis at his schools, and write a book with him. And maybe he and this other kenpo instructor guy parted ways in 1961, too. The 2-kenpo instructor guy theory doesn't appeal to me though. Call me a skeptic, I think there was just 1 kenpo guy.

Neither man will/would name the other. Those don't sound like very good terms to me. Maybe tactful avoidance.


Keep up the Good Work!

M.C. Busman

p.s. for interested parties: I am not now nor have I ever been a member of the Tracy Kenpo line, or a student under someone who is or was (as far as I know!).

p.s.s., anyone care to point out how the Tracy's have removed themselves from the Parker lineage? http://www.tracyskarate.com/Tracytree/treemstpage.htm

p.s.s.t., is anything posted on or linked-to from a Tracy's Kenpo site now considered unreliable/verboten by association? They're far from correct about everything (the Yoshida stuff, f'rinstance )..but c'mon.

Great. A friggin' mind reader who knows the "truth" even though he wasn't there. SMDYSAESCSGT.

 

[M.C. Busman]

I cited my sources. Research and mind reading have nothing to do w/ one another. One achieves results.


You were there? When? Why don't you tell us what you remember. Your specific recollection of Parker & Woo splitting is as good or better than a secondary account.


Take Care,

M.C. Busman

 

[Dr. Kenpo]

I cited my sources. Research and mind reading have nothing to do w/ one another. One achieves results.


You were there? When? Why don't you tell us what you remember. Your specific recollection of Parker & Woo splitting is as good or better than a secondary account.


Take Care,

M.C. Busman[/QUOTE

Not to worry, he won't. He just likes to start fires and watch em burn. He even shows up to party's w/o bringing anything to the table. Plus that, he comes uninvited.

 

[BlackCatBonz]

another relic from the past....are you sure its a picture of Mitose? you dont seem to be sure if he is 13 or 14.

also....true or false- 100% of the truth is revealed in a court of law 100% of the time.

LEO's feel free to answer this question

shawn

i find it funny that no one has addressed this question.....because so much seems to be riding on the info from the court proceedings.

 

[M.C. Busman]

We can't really comment until we see the picture for ourselves. The info concerning Mitose's Immigration records posted by Ted Sumner isn't the end all be-all, but it can't be denied. At the very least, Mitose returned to the U.S. at the date shown, and presented the documents noted. I don't think Mr. Sumner is making it up, but it would be nifty to see scans & the notary's seal.

This doesn't yet rule out the possibility that Mitose may have made several trips back & forth between Japan & Hawai'i. Personally, I'd have to see the photos myself to believe. If people wait too much longer, somebody's going to get scooped and lose their opportunity...


Stay Safe,

M.C. Busman

 

[M.C. Busman]

Or... Maybe you were talking about the 100% of the truth question.

I think the answer is so obvious most of us ignored it.

From the court's perspective truth is what is revealed in court.

From the scientists standpoint, truth = facts

From the sociologists standpoint, truth is based on perception.

People lie in court. Sometimes it is intentional, sometimes they are remiss in their recollection of events. People may be misidentified. People might forget names, dates, amounts. Nothing is ever 100%. The court's job is to ascertain the truth from the facts to the best of his/her/their ability. An imperfect job, but better than the alternative.

Dr. Kenpo wrote: "Not to worry, he won't. He just likes to start fires and watch em burn. He even shows up to party's w/o bringing anything to the table. Plus that, he comes uninvited."

Oh! How dreadful!


~~M.C. Busman

 

[BlackCatBonz]

so your answer is false?

shawn

 

[M.C. Busman]

Absolutely. Outside of certain scientific and physical principles as we know them, (as I said in my last post), if your question is "also....true or false- 100% of the truth is revealed in a court of law 100% of the time., my opinion is that nothing is ever 100%, if assuming by "truth" you mean facts.

Even when things are recorded on videotape, there can be two very different interpretaions about what took place (the Rodney King event tape is a good if dated example of this). Especially in court, the job is to ascertain the facts through the available resources. Of course, things may be left out, misinterpreted, misremembered, made up...Both the prosector and defense have the job of presenting the facts ("truth") of their position. It is the job of the jury and/or judge to decide what s/he or they believe based upon the rule of law, jury instructions, and reasoned deliberation upon those facts.


Have a Happy Monday,

M.C. Busman

 

[M.C. Busman]

New Mitose documents have been posted.

Ted Sumner has been publically posting a mass of information on Mitose and other kenpo related martial artists recently. Historic documents for people who are interested in history. I've posted this link before, but not in the context of this new material. See:

http://www.sanjosekenpo.com./articles.htm

This is an individual Tracy's Kenpo school site, so if your instructor forbids you to look at anything having to do with Tracy's lineage kenpo (which came through Ed Parker, actually...), you should not look here! Or look and don't tell him. Your conscience and choice! The facts speak for themselves...


Have a Super Day,

M.C. Busman

 

[GAB]

Hi, I would like to say if your instructor, forbids you to read what you want to, run don't walk just as fast as you can and find another instructor.

I. You are paying for this information, never forget that.

2. This is a business and without you and others the instructor will not last long.

3. Information is for the giving and the taking, if the person wants to confuse you with some sort of taking away your freedom's, don't go there.

4. All the above.

Regards, Gary

 

[M.C. Busman]

Amen to that.


~~M.C. Busman