Kosho Shorei Ryu Kempo

[kelly keltner]

good post mekugi.

kelly

 

[GAB]

Hi Mekugi,

Regarding internment, that explains why he was free to move around (mitose).

I know Gichin Funakoshi was part of the reason the characters were changed but I didn't think it was a one man band. :idunno:

I don't think I was being disrespectful to the Japanese, I know the story about their valor in the European theatre, also the Fillipino valor in the battle for their homeland was of much importance during the war.:mp5:

I was curious if these were things to discuss that might be of importance to Mitose, Hawaii and Japan.

:asian: The one thing that is interesting is it brings up a name, I have wondered about and will ask now. What does FunaKoshi mean in Japanese and if you were to change the last letter would it change the meaning? How about the Kanji?

Regards, Gary

 

[Mekugi]

I doubt he was free to move around in Hawaii, or anywhere else during those times. The islands didn't have enough man power to support themselves without those folks and there was a military presence there, so it's kinda like what John said. I don't believe that internment camps had much to do with a communication problem, it had more to do with a form of paranoid reactionism with racist undertones, IMHO. I doubt very much if something that drastic would be acceptable today.

Unless his name is spelled differently, 'Funakoshi' as a surname breaks down like this:

Funa (fune) 舟 = ship
Koshi(koeru) 越 or 超　=going over.

I am not suｒe what you mean by last letter and kanji? Explain to me what you mean in greater detail so I can attempt to answer on-track with what you are thinking.

-Russ

Hi Mekugi,

Regarding internment, that explains why he was free to move around (mitose).

:asian: The one thing that is interesting is it brings up a name, I have wondered about and will ask now. What does FunaKoshi mean in Japanese and if you were to change the last letter would it change the meaning? How about the Kanji?

Regards, Gary

 

[BlackCatBonz]

romaji is just a standard used for spelling the japanese language in english.....because they use ideograms the way we spell it has no impact on their japanese "spelling"....but, these characters havemore than one simple pronunciation.

example: the character for pine can be pronounced sho or matsu; or the character for finger can be pronounced yubi or shi

i think this is where a lot of misinformation comes from in the west, people simply dont understand the "complexities" of the language...like in english when you hear the word car you think of an automobile

shawn

anyone please correct me if i am wrong........this is what i learned in school

 

[GAB]

Hi Shawn and Russ thanks.
I will pm for more info on what you are referring to regarding the language translation.

Russ, As far as the internment, I was referring to Mitose being Japanese he might have been interned, not to the right or wrong of it, or the racial overtones.

My thought of intern was to say, was he put in a location other then his home etc. Might be paperwork on him...

But you say they did not do that in Hawaii (intern).
How about taking names and keeping track of the Japanese in Hawaii? Military guards? House arrest? Curfew?:idunno:

I find it strange that the USA, would not have tightened up on the Japanese, who lived on the island, due to the war.:mp5: Because they did it in other places.

Regards, Gary

 

[M.C. Busman]

Russ,

Any chance you can post the kanji for Mitose?


All Y'all,

Other questions to explore:

1. Fusae Oshita--was he Shodan from Mitose, or from an Okinawa karate sensei?

2. Mitose says he served in the Hawaiian Territorian Guard...any records?

3. Any public or private school (primary, etc.) regarding Mitose?

4. If "Mitose" was not James Mitose's family name...why did he take it? What was his original name, did he change it...and why would a man change his name?

Hmmm.




Happy Labor Day,

M.C. Busman

 

[John Bishop]

Russ,

Other questions to explore:

1. Fusae Oshita--was he Shodan from Mitose, or from an Okinawa karate sensei?

Happy Labor Day,

M.C. Busman

As I understand the story, "Fusae Oshita" is actually a "Clara Mitose", who some claim was James Mitose's sister. She is said to be the female in Mitose's book doing techniques. (But others say the woman is James's wife, Mildred). The story is that "Fusae" is her Japanese first name, and "Oshita" was her married name. The story going around was that she went to Japan with James and also trained at the monastery. Strange thing, James testified at his trial that it was his brother that was with him in Japan.
Some are also claiming that the other female in the group picture in the book was another female student of James Mitose. But they seem to be getting her name wrong all the time, and refer to her as "Lisa Chung". The whole truth is that the picture was not James Mitose's self defense club at all. It was actually William Chow's school at the Nuuana YMCA. Mitose was merely visiting there along with Arthur Keave. (Mitose was good at stealing pictures and information for his books, but that's another topic.)The woman in the picture with the scarf on her head is Elizabeth Chun aka: "Auntie Liz". She was originally a student of Adriano Emperado's and later trained with William Chow. She was William Chow's first female black belt, not Mitose's black belt. She died a few years ago in San Diego.

 

[M.C. Busman]

John wrote: "The story is that "Fusae" is her Japanese first name, and "Oshita" was her married name."

Oh yeah...Fusae and Shizue (?) Mitose. The next question becomes with whom did she really study. There is still too much lingering doubt about the whole "learned it in a temple" story that keeps changing. I'm wondering if telling such tales wasn't a family trait all around.

Robert Trias' "Karatedo: The Supreme Way" shows Thomas Barros-Mitose, 2 of his 3 kids Elizabeth & Mark (who apparently is next in line) and also Golub & Juchnik. Trias wrote:

"In the 40's, Master Trias would make an occasional visit, work out and assist Professor Mitose in his untiring efforts to build a closer correlation between the Shuri/Shorei/Hsing-i forms and the Japanese/Chinese Kenpo systems in the islands of Hawaii. [...](1989:34)

I have my own thoughts on Trias's lineage and how he came to use the Mitose Kosho crest. Trias had the crest turned the wrong way in the early days...just like shown in Mitose's book published in the late '40's. Trias also claimed a lineage from the only Okinawan Karate master who'd been named & pictured in Mitose's book...Choki Motobu, through a Chinese man no-one has ever heard of or been able to trace. But that's another thread.

No-one ever talks about his oldest son, Alan Mitose, though. Wouldn't Alan be the hereditary heir? I thought he was the oldest, but then again I haven't seen a complete tree of James Mitose's blood descendents.

To see a picture of grandson of the first (or 21st, depending upon what you believe), and son of the present "honorable great-great grandmaster" Mitose (Mark Mitose), see:

http://kosho-ryu.com/family_tree/mark_mitose.htm


Take Care,

M.C. Busman

 

[GAB]

Hi M C Busman,

I like your input thanks, we need some fresh insite.

Regards, Gary

 

[Mekugi]

Russ,

Any chance you can post the kanji for Mitose?

M.C. Busman

I am not sure the way the name (Mitose) was actually written by him because as this is a name, there can be other combinations- however not as popular. That is a possibility. I have two guesses, however, based on common names to draw from.

The first one is:

Mi(zu)水= Water
To 戸 = Door
Se 瀬= Riverbank

In the next version, we find the native Japanese count of 3 as in"Mitsu" as the first kanji:

Mi(tsu) 三=Three
To 戸 = Door
Se 瀬= Riverbank

 

[GAB]

Hi M C Busman,

The picture of Mark Mitose is a close look alike of a picture of the young James in Hawaii, circa 1940/45. All 5'-5"and about 120 lbs.

The more you see the more you wonder.

Regards, Gary

 

[kelly keltner]

Hi M C Busman,

The picture of Mark Mitose is a close look alike of a picture of the young James in Hawaii, circa 1940/45. All 5'-5"and about 120 lbs.

The more you see the more you wonder.

Regards, Gary

yeah I'd say when James was about 25-26 years old only without the mustache.

kelly

 

[The Kai]

The picture of Mark Mitose is a close look alike of a picture of the young James in Hawaii, circa 1940/45. All 5'-5"and about 120 lbs.

The more you see the more you wonder.

Yes, Father and Son look alike-they bear an almost family resemblence-ODD to say the least. Hmmm. Perhaps if we look close enough we could theortically find some resemblence between Mother and Daughter, or perhaps between Brothers
Todd

 

[GAB]

Hi Todd,

Yes, that is true, but, we are talking a Grandson. We all have a pair one from Mom and one from Dad. (genes)

I believe the reason for the picture is because of the very close look, to establish direct link.
Since there was talk at one time, that Thomas and his father James may not be linked, because of the ease, James seems to give up or sell, his children. (common trait)

Considering the number of children, and his lack of responsibility towards family.
Numerous reasons, why I continue to try to understand the complexity of the man.

Thanks MC.
Regards, Gary

 

[The Kai]

Hi Todd,

Yes, that is true, but, we are talking a Grandson. We all have a pair one from Mom and one from Dad. (genes)

Again not so odd for there to be a resemblence btween grand kids!! (No conspirancy)
[/QUOTE]Since there was talk at one time, that Thomas and his father James may not be linked, because of the ease, James seems to give up or sell, his children. (common trait)

Considering the number of children, and his lack of responsibility towards family.
Numerous reasons, why I continue to try to understand the complexity of the man.
[/QUOTE]You call selling your children "complex", what the hell
Thanks MC.
Regards, Gary[/QUOTE]

 

[KenpoDave]

Some are also claiming that the other female in the group picture in the book was another female student of James Mitose. But they seem to be getting her name wrong all the time, and refer to her as "Lisa Chung". The whole truth is that the picture was not James Mitose's self defense club at all. It was actually William Chow's school at the Nuuana YMCA. Mitose was merely visiting there along with Arthur Keave. (Mitose was good at stealing pictures and information for his books, but that's another topic.)The woman in the picture with the scarf on her head is Elizabeth Chun aka: "Auntie Liz". She was originally a student of Adriano Emperado's and later trained with William Chow. She was William Chow's first female black belt, not Mitose's black belt. She died a few years ago in San Diego.

Elizabeth Chun went by the name Lisa Chun at the time the picture was taken. When I met her, she was going by Elizabeth Chun Edwards. I never met her husband, who was an executive for Sears at the time.(I have always wondered if she was related to Bill Chun...)

She was dating William Chow and thru him met Mitose, who brought her in to be the training partner for his sister, Clare Mitose (Fusae Oshita). She became a student of Adriano Emperado as a result of Chow owing Emperado money. The way she told me was something to the effect that Chow "sold her" to Emperado. She claimed to have been awarded a 4th dan from Emperado.

Though not a direct student of Mitose in the traditional sense, Mitose taught her many things. She had lots of great stories about being in the dojo and remembered quite a bit of her training. Most of her practice in the years since Hawaii involved Energy Collection exercises which bear very close resemblance to the I Chin Ching exercises. She also told an interesting story about Mitose setting an orange on top of the makiwara post, and sticking his index finger thru the side of it. Then he would tell her to try, and she would knock it off the post. He would just laugh, pick up the orange, and walk away.

She was very clear that it was obvious that Mitose was the top man within the schools.

 

[GAB]

Hi Todd,

I was reading your post, it looks like you did not finish it or maybe some of it was deleated?

Yes, I think Mitose was a very complex individual, based on his teachings, then his criminal side that has been brought forth, also his claiming to be a minister (I think there is information that will show he was in fact one), he was probabley a double agent (spy) then turned traitor (japan).

May have had dual citizenship and then became a convert to American ways.
I think he was given some money from the US Govt. for helping during the war.

They did have an intern location in Hawaii, and I believe he was interned for awhile.
I think you will find that Shinto priests had a very important role in Hawaii, for collecting money for Japan's war effort.(within the Japanese community on Hawaii) They also were allowed to have more freedom (moving from place to place) similar to what we give our priest's during times like these.
So yes, I think he was complex, having children and selling them or just giving them away, (which I doubt, money was the reason) just one of the things that brings that term to mind.

Regards, Gary

 

[Mekugi]

Gary, where in the samhill are you getting this stuff?

Please read :

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8420/camps.html

http://www.uwec.edu/Geography/Ivogeler/w188/j2.htm

http://www.pacshiprev.com/PacificArchivesSubDirectory/page21.html

Furthermore, who said Mitose was a Shinto priest???

They did have an intern location in Hawaii, and I believe he was interned for awhile.
I think you will find that Shinto priests had a very important role in Hawaii, for collecting money for Japan's war effort.(within the Japanese community on Hawaii) They also were allowed to have more freedom (moving from place to place) similar to what we give our priest's during times like these.

Regards, Gary

 

[The Kai]

Hi Todd,

I was reading your post, it looks like you did not finish it or maybe some of it was deleated?

Yes, I think Mitose was a very complex individual, based on his teachings, then his criminal side that has been brought forth, also his claiming to be a minister (I think there is information that will show he was in fact one), he was probabley a double agent (spy) then turned traitor (japan).

May have had dual citizenship and then became a convert to American ways.
I think he was given some money from the US Govt. for helping during the war.

They did have an intern location in Hawaii, and I believe he was interned for awhile.
I think you will find that Shinto priests had a very important role in Hawaii, for collecting money for Japan's war effort.(within the Japanese community on Hawaii) They also were allowed to have more freedom (moving from place to place) similar to what we give our priest's during times like these.
So yes, I think he was complex, having children and selling them or just giving them away, (which I doubt, money was the reason) just one of the things that brings that term to mind.

Regards, Gary

1.) Do you know what was taught by Mitose?
2.) All evidence points to the minister thing being a fraud
3.) Spy what do you base that on?
4.) The gov't gave him money any proof?
5.) I got eh impression in Hawaii all Japanese were free to roam around, Mitose had even more freeom then that?
6.) Shinto priest proof of?
7.) Selling a child Money not the objective? What is the point?
Man, my head is starting to spin!
Mitose went to Japan
may not be the same Mitose who came back
Odd That Mitose looks different in the photos taken in the 40's and the photo's taken in the 80's (like older maybe)
Master herbalist who murdered a patient, Or elimated a Spy 20+ years after the war!
Side note if a Spy/Herbalist his someone in his care why not posion the person? Instead inconspeciously train someone to stab them with a screwdriver -that's almost untracable
8.) Where is the temple? Why a secret?
T

 

[GAB]

Hi Todd,

I have been putting out request,s and have been getting some information back, so I am sharing it with you.

If you have a hard time believing it so did I, untill I did some more legwork, phone calls e-mail etc. I was relating to you why I thought Mitose was a complex person and part of that complexity is what I have seen and heard from different sources.:uhyeah:

I can try to give you more, but why should I? I can see this is a tag team, I will see what else I can develop?

Todd, now you want to know why he had someone killed when he (or his sister) could have done it with herbs? I guess that question should be asked of Terry Lee.:idunno:

As far as the temple being secret, I have read on many websites that it was not a secret and it was in plain sight. Regarding pictures I am refering to similar times and not 60 years apart.

Also Todd if you have been to the gathering as many times as you say, maybe you ought to call Hanshi, he will fill you in personally. Have you let him know you will not be there this year? The phone # is avaliable in some of these threads. Or you can get it off the SKSKI website.

Like Fox news you heard it first here.:asian:
Regards, Gary