Judo For Self-Defense On The Street?

[Hanzou]

Yep. Straight jab into the nuts brother.

Let's see about that ground and pound after a coupla nut shots.

Okay, I get your game now. I think we're done here.

Feel free to have the last word KSD.

 

[WarriorMonk7]

No. If he is willing to go nut shots i am hanging on harder. Still the safest place for me.

Have you ever been hit in the nuts? Remember what that felt like? Really stop for a second and think about it.

 

[WarriorMonk7]

That was the picture you commented on.






I've just explained why an elbow strike to the groin isn't feasible from the bottom of the mounted position. However, if you have some evidence beyond anecdotal experience, please feel free to share.




Bjj mount escapes would be a great start.

Dude - can you drop the elbow strikes for a second? It doesn't matter.

Just ram a part of your anatomy into the mounted opponent's testicles and repeat until you have a better option. Doesn't matter if it's a fist or elbow.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

Would you have preferred something like this;

No rules, just the way you like it.

Did he try any of the stuff we've been discussing?

How is he going to reach for his knife when the guy on top is hitting him in the face?

You're assuming that the knife wasn't already in his hands. That's what we call a real world possibility. Your also assuming that it wasn't that piece of glass or metal shard laying on the ground in that parking lot they're fighting in at the time. And you've also never seen someone like Fred Crevello at SEPSI put a (rubber) knife out of concealment and go to work on the BJJ guy he LET mount him. These are elements of SD that you don't have experience with.

Arch your back and chest upwards while someone is sitting on top of it? Really?

Ayep. Usually associated with other tidbits to assist in the effort. Could be temporarily trapping the arm or ankle to assist with the off balancing. We do it all the time in training. Remember, I'm discussing a fluid, dynamic response not just laying there and making some singular effort.

Reach up, grab the arm, and take a bite that will go all the way to the bone while they're sitting on top of you and striking you in the face?

Ayep. Seen it done and it wasn't pretty. Bloody freakin mess. But it stopped the attacker. Of course you don't just bite and then sit back and admire your handy work. As with any defense/counter attack you continue until you've succeeded in whatever it is your trying to do.

In knife fighting circles (one of the circles I run in) we have something called 'chipping'. I palm a small edged weapon (small for a whole host of practical reasons). When you reach out to grab or punch me I cut the back of your hand. What's a persons natural reaction to being cut and having blood flow? Grab the injury to stop the bleeding. That's what I'm waiting for. I then trap both your hands and slice open your throat. That's the type of response I'm trying to explain to you. Solicitation of a prescribed response.

Where did I say that grabbing the testicles doesn't work? I'm saying that the chances of you striking the testicles while someone is dropping blows on your head is slim. If the assailant is trained, its even slimmer. Further, I'm saying that an elbow strike to the nuts while someone is mounted on you isn't feasible.

You should qualify your opinion with 'in my experience...'. Which does not limit others who have more experience in a specific area or limit the experiences that they've seen/researched/taught.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

We do something similar in training. But we add other elements, if necessary. This can include strikes, grabs and bites as appropriate.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

[QUOTE="Hanzou, post: 1764503, member: 31336"
Feel free to have the last word KSD.[/QUOTE]

Thanks. I've enjoyed it and hopefully passed on something useful to you.

 

[WarriorMonk7]

[QUOTE="Hanzou, post: 1764503, member: 31336"
Feel free to have the last word KSD.

Thanks. I've enjoyed it and hopefully passed on something useful to you.[/QUOTE]
You did! Thanks!

 

[Skullpunch]

Your reasoning is flawed in regards to the UFC. Yes, in the beginning it has less rules than the current version. But it still had rules and it was still an artificial/controlled environment. And those MMA players came from backgrounds where more often than not a specific rule set was enforced (which did not include gouging out an eye or crushing the testicles).

The only rules in the beginning were no biting and no eye-gouging. Other than that it was about as close to anything goes as they come. Hell in the vale tudo days biting, eye gouging, and even crowd interference happened all the time. It was as close to a street fight as you can possibly get in any "style vs style" comparison match up, and bjj was still dominant, it proved its legitimacy then and it continues to prove it now for all the world to see…unlike the “smack the groin from mount bottom to wreck a bjj guy” silliness that TS is on about, where the closest thing to proof anyone can offer is saying “I’ve seen it happen"

Additionally, many of the stand up fighters back then that initially competed in the UFC had little to no grappling experience OR little to no experience against a grappler.

Which of course means they should've done more wrestling/bjj and maybe then they would've stood a chance.

And this line of discussion isn't limited to just grabbing/striking/crushing the testicles

Within the context of this thread it actually is limited to that, since TS (who it's pretty obvious by now is a troll btw) apparently thinks that all it takes is a ball smack from mount bottom to wreck a bjj guy. Go back and read the bottom part of the OP.

 

[drop bear]

Have you ever been hit in the nuts? Remember what that felt like? Really stop for a second and think about it.

Sorry does fighting hurt?

And yes i have been hit in the groin. You actually cop a bit doing strait jits transitioning. And if it is a choice between making mount and rolling off after a groin shot.

Most people make mount.

 

[drop bear]

You're assuming that the knife wasn't already in his hands. That's what we call a real world possibility. Your also assuming that it wasn't that piece of glass or metal shard laying on the ground in that parking lot they're fighting in at the time. And you've also never seen someone like Fred Crevello at SEPSI put a (rubber) knife out of concealment and go to work on the BJJ guy he LET mount him. These are elements of SD that you don't have experience with.

That is a kind of magic trick though.

I could put a rubber knife in anybodys hands from anywhere against any style and rubber knive will usually win.

So to be specific with a certain style is a bit cheeky.

 

[WarriorMonk7]

Sorry does fighting hurt?

And yes i have been hit in the groin. You actually cop a bit doing strait jits transitioning. And if it is a choice between making mount and rolling off after a groin shot.

Most people make mount.

I respect that you would risk testicular damage in a street fight.

I have less courage than you.

 

[drop bear]

I respect that you would risk testicular damage in a street fight.

I have less courage than you.

One of the things i have noticed with the krav students we get is they think they are made of glass.

Sub them out with knee rides and stuff. I have always thought that this idea that every move will kill and break bones works against them mentally a bit.

 

[WarriorMonk7]

One of the things i have noticed with the krav students we get is they think they are made of glass.

Sub them out with knee rides and stuff. I have always thought that this idea that every move will kill and break bones works against them mentally a bit.

Dude - I agree with you 100%, but nut shots change the entire game.

In UFC you get 5 minutes to recover from a half-assed nut shot. C'mon man. Use some common sense.

 

[drop bear]

Dude - I agree with you 100%, but nut shots change the entire game.

In UFC you get 5 minutes to recover from a half-assed nut shot. C'mon man. Use some common sense.

In ufc you get a break every five minutes. But that doesn't mean you are going to stop in a street fight.

 

[Hanzou]

Did he try any of the stuff we've been discussing?

No, he wasn't able to because he got knocked out within a matter of seconds. That tends to happen when the back of your skull hits concrete.

That's my point. The bottom of mount is too dangerous to trade blows or go for bites and groin strikes.

If you notice in the Gracie vid the FIRST thing they do is close the distance with a waist grab to remove the danger from the strikes. The next thing they do is break their adversary's posture in order to set up a sweep to a more favorable position.

 

[Ironbear24]

People act like the ground and pound is fool proof and unstoppable. It isn't, I have gotten people off me in many ways such as hitting them then the diaphragm, pushing my legs and hips off the floor to roll them over onto their back, which puts me on top, And a simple wrist lock.

And for the record hitting the balls isn't "the easy button" people make it out to be because people, especially trained fighters expect to get in the balls and because of this we have natural tendency to expect it. Please try to hit my groin when in that position, it makes it easier because you set yourself up for several things.

One of them being a mean Judo armbar. I am saying this because in the end I want to become better and I want others to become better too, don't go for the magical nut shot, learn grappling techniques so when you do get into that position you know what to do.

Judo guys and bjj guys and many martial artists are taught to protect their groin, don't do what it is going to expected.

 

[WarriorMonk7]

No, he wasn't able to because he got knocked out within a matter of seconds. That tends to happen when the back of your skull hits concrete.

That's my point. The bottom of mount is too dangerous to trade blows or go for bites and groin strikes.

If you notice in the Gracie vid the FIRST thing they do is close the distance with a waist grab to remove the danger from the strikes. The next thing they do is break their adversary's posture in order to set up a sweep to a more favorable position.

That was a good vid, of course - but he could've opted for the jab into the testicles if there was more distance.

 

[WarriorMonk7]

People act like the ground and pound is fool proof and unstoppable. It isn't, I have gotten people off me in many ways such as hitting them then the diaphragm, pushing my legs and hips off the floor to roll them over onto their back, which puts me on top, And a simple wrist lock.

And for the record hitting the balls isn't "the easy button" people make it out to be because people, especially trained fighters expect to get in the balls and because of this we have natural tendency to expect it. Please try to hit my groin when in that position, it makes it easier because you set yourself up for several things.

One of them being a mean Judo armbar. I am saying this because in the end I want to become better and I want others to become better too, don't go for the magical nut shot, learn grappling techniques so when you do get into that position you know what to do.

Judo guys and bjj guys and many martial artists are taught to protect their groin, don't do what it is going to expected.

"Judo guys and bjj guys and many martial artists are taught to protect their groin, don't do what it is going to expected."

I want you to please tell me where you train then so I can join. My Gracie Barra gym was terrible.

 

[Ironbear24]

"Judo guys and bjj guys and many martial artists are taught to protect their groin, don't do what it is going to expected."

I want you to please tell me where you train then so I can join. My Gracie Barra gym was terrible.

Mistake #1 never assume a place is good just because it has gracies name on it. I train in Shou Shu which is a basically kenpo karate with Chinese martial arts influence, my previous dojo was an Edmond Parker kenpo dojo that implemented Judo in it.

Both places have both grappling and striking. If you are interested in Edmond Parker kenpo look up Stephen Labounty, also known as Sigung, Huk Planas kenpo is also a great take on it as well mixing Escrima into it which is a lot like Chinese arts. Tons of joint locks and leverage to take your enemy to the floor.

Jiu Jutsu is a good style whether it is Asian or Latino makes no difference, since you are new I suggest stop worrying about styles and worry about your instructor, he or she should be like a mentor to you and be willing to beat you up for the sake of making you tougher and better at the art.

Avoid places that have no physical or minimal contact. If you guys are hitting each other pretty hard and practicing that way often that is a good sign.

 

[WarriorMonk7]

Mistake #1 never assume a place is good just because it has gracies name on it. I train in Shou Shu which is a basically kenpo karate with Chinese martial arts influence, my previous dojo was an Edmond Parker kenpo dojo that implemented Judo in it.

Both places have both grappling and striking. If you are interested in Edmond Parker kenpo look up Stephen Labounty, also known as Sigung, Huk Planas kenpo is also a great take on it as well mixing Escrima into it which is a lot like Chinese arts. Tons of joint locks and leverage to take your enemy to the floor.

Jiu Jutsu is a good style whether it is Asian or Latino makes no difference, since you are new I suggest stop worrying about styles and worry about your instructor, he or she should be like a mentor to you and be willing to beat you up for the sake of making you tougher and better at the art.

Avoid places that have no physical or minimal contact. If you guys are hitting each other pretty hard and practicing that way often that is a good sign.

Agreed.

I have a MT and wrestling background by the way. I'm at a decent local MMA gym now - but avoid the BJJ. Don't want to waste my time on it besides learning the simple - most used - submissions.

My mentor focuses a lot of wrestling.