Judo For Self-Defense On The Street?

[Gerry Seymour]

Cool! Let me know when you come through so I can make sure I'm there that night.

I will do that, as long as you promise to take it easy on me - I can't roll like I once did.

 

[Charlemagne]

Hello all.

I am new, so please be easy on me.

I'm thinking of rounding out my game a bit more for self-defense.

I've been looking at Judo because a lot of the throws lead to your opponent on the ground (with you standing and sometimes holding on to your opponent's arm).

This gives you a lot of possibilities. Groin kick, head kick, as well as a fast arm bar since you are holding on to the arm. (Of course, you could also just run away and avoid harm for both you and your attacker.)

Anyway, I remain skeptical of Judo. Why?...

You might look at places that do Freestyle Judo rather than IJF rules. The Welcome Mat group seems to be doing some legit Judo based combatives.

Just a thought.

 

[Hanzou]

You might look at places that do Freestyle Judo rather than IJF rules. The Welcome Mat group seems to be doing some legit Judo based combatives.

Just a thought.

Honestly with the way things are going with the IJF, Freestyle Judo places may be the only places left to get full Judo instruction.

There are Guerrilla Jiujitsu schools that combine Judo with Bjj. Never trained there myself, and there's only a handful of locations around the world, but the founder of it is pretty legit. Additionally, the OP might even want to try a Gracie Jiujitsu school. Old school Bjj is pretty much Judo applied to street fighting.

 

[Charlemagne]

Honestly with the way things are going with the IJF, Freestyle Judo places may be the only places left to get full Judo instruction.

There are Guerrilla Jiujitsu schools that combine Judo with Bjj. Never trained there myself, and there's only a handful of locations around the world, but the founder of it is pretty legit. Additionally, the OP might even want to try a Gracie Jiujitsu school. Old school Bjj is pretty much Judo applied to street fighting.

Yep. Any Gracie Jiu-Jistu affiliate, Pedro Sauer affiliate, Valente Brothers, Royce Gracie, or Relson Gracie affiliate would be a good place to look for a more defensive focused BJJ. The "Traditional Kodokan Judo" affiliate clubs might work as well, but I think there was something wrong with that organization from what I remember. Not sure though.

Dave Camarillo is as legit as they come, no question about that in my mind. Also, any Ribeiro Jiu-Jitsu affiliate is likely to have some Judo mixed with their BJJ as well. Saulo Ribeiro is a big fan of Judo, and he and his brother Xande have a Judo for BJJ class at their HQ.

As weird as their name sounds, it is my understanding that these guys are legit as well: John Saylor Shingitai Jujitsu Association Ground fighting Martial Arts and Jujitsu Exercise Training Videos and Strength Building Equipment

 

[Charlemagne]

Yep. Any Gracie Jiu-Jistu affiliate, Pedro Sauer affiliate, Valente Brothers, Royce Gracie, or Relson Gracie affiliate would be a good place to look for a more defensive focused BJJ.

I should add to the above that Gracie Barra, though having a well deserved reputation for competition, has in recent years changed their fundamentals program and even their advanced program to incorporate much more self-defense and MMA material (defending strikes while on the ground, etc.).

 

[elder999]

I should add to the above that Gracie Barra, though having a well deserved reputation for competition, has in recent years changed their fundamentals program and even their advanced program to incorporate much more self-defense and MMA material (defending strikes while on the ground, etc.).

Yeah, but they're....eh

 

[Charlemagne]

Yeah, but they're....eh

Don't really care about that sort of thing. Are they good people who provide good training and a positive environment? That's what I care about.

 

[elder999]

Don't really care about that sort of thing. Are they good people who provide good training and a positive environment? That's what I care about.

So it's okay with you that they're liars, then?

 

[Ironbear24]

Yeah, but they're....eh
View attachment 19946

That's false.

 

[Charlemagne]

So it's okay with you that they're liars, then?

Because their history with the Gi is wrong I am supposed to be up in arms?

Of all the crazy crap that goes on in Martial Arts, to include: people teaching crap that will get other people killed should they ever try to defend themselves with it (and charging them money for doing it), Ninja larpers, chi masters all over the place, this martial art is too deadly to spar and that one is too peaceful to spar, all taught by out of shape fat guys who have have never pressure tested anything they teach and can't even fit into their gi let alone tell you the history of it. All of that, and much more, and this is what I am supposed to care about?

Regardless, the average Gracie Barra instructor has nothing to do with the signage that gets put up in their school.

 

[elder999]

Because their history with the Gi is wrong I am supposed to be up in arms?

Of all the crazy crap that goes on in Martial Arts, to include: people teaching crap that will get other people killed should they ever try to defend themselves with it (and charging them money for doing it), Ninja larpers, chi masters all over the place, this martial art is too deadly to spar and that one is too peaceful to spar, all taught by out of shape fat guys who have have never pressure tested anything they teach and can't even fit into their gi let alone tell you the history of it. All of that, and much more, and this is what I am supposed to care about?

Regardless, the average Gracie Barra instructor has nothing to do with the signage that gets put up in their school.

So who knows what other B.S. they're perpetrating?

 

[Ironbear24]

So who knows what other B.S. they're perpetrating?

90% of all fights go to the ground.

 

[Charlemagne]

90% of all fights go to the ground.

That isn't unique to Gracie Barra, which is who I believe he taking shots at since he didn't go after the other BJJ groups mentioned.

As for the 90% thing, I'm not any kind of fight master (and don't wish to be), but the majority of the fights I have been in have gone to the ground. Can't speak for others, but I think in this day and age it is obvious that anyone without a ground game is lacking when it comes to self-defense.

 

[Ironbear24]

That isn't unique to Gracie Barra, which is who I believe he taking shots at since he didn't go after the other BJJ groups mentioned.

As for the 90% thing, I'm not any kind of fight master (and don't wish to be), but the majority of the fights I have been in have gone to the ground. Can't speak for others, but I think in this day and age it is obvious that anyone without a ground game is lacking when it comes to self-defense.

Where did they gather this statistic from? To be honest it sounds made up on the spot. If he said many fights go to the ground I can understand that, but to label percentage on it especially one as big as 90% sets of my Bs alarm.

I have been in many fights, I have gotten into some heat over that, but they rarely went to the ground. Some have but it wasnt common to happen. They did however all have a clinch in them, but that's exactly ground or "ground game."

 

[Charlemagne]

Where did they gather this statistic from? To be honest it sounds made up on the spot. If he said many fights go to the ground I can understand that, but to label percentage on it especially one as big as 90% sets of my Bs alarm.

I have been in many fights, I have gotten into some heat over that, but they rarely went to the ground. Some have but it wasnt common to happen. They did however all have a clinch in them, but that's exactly ground or "ground game."

Don't know where it came from, or who started it. I don't think it is unique to the Gracie family though.

 

[Ironbear24]

Don't know where it came from, or who started it. I don't think it is unique to the Gracie family though.

They say it in about all of their DVDs. And challenge videos. I'm not trying to knock them or badmouth the style, just keep in mind you have to seperate the reality from the propaganda machine to draw people in to sign up.

They are good at what they do when it comes to the jiu jitsu, which is what is all about.

 

[Hanzou]

Where did they gather this statistic from? To be honest it sounds made up on the spot. If he said many fights go to the ground I can understand that, but to label percentage on it especially one as big as 90% sets of my Bs alarm.

I have been in many fights, I have gotten into some heat over that, but they rarely went to the ground. Some have but it wasnt common to happen. They did however all have a clinch in them, but that's exactly ground or "ground game."

The methodology behind that stat is if there's people fighting one another, they're going to start striking each other, then clinch, then attempt to wrestle each other to the ground, then attempt to control on the ground. That methodology comes from Maeda, not the Gracie clan.

In your case, the fights ended in the second or third phase for whatever reason which is perfectly fine. Bjj 's methodology is that if you're dealing with someone physically much stronger than you, and they take you to the ground, then your ground skill will save you. On the flip side, you could be skillful enough to take them down on your terms and your ground skill will allow you to dominate them from that range.

The entire point of Bjj is to never let someone dominate YOU while you're on the ground. The most lethal damage in an encounter usually happens from that range.

 

[Charlemagne]

The methodology behind that stat is if there's people fighting one another, they're going to start striking each other, then clinch, then attempt to wrestle each other to the ground, then attempt to control on the ground. That methodology comes from Maeda, not the Gracie clan.

In your case, the fights ended in the second or third phase for whatever reason which is perfectly fine. Bjj 's methodology is that if you're dealing with someone physically much stronger than you, and they take you to the ground, then your ground skill will save you. On the flip side, you could be skillful enough to take them down on your terms and your ground skill will allow you to dominate them from that range.

The entire point of Bjj is to never let someone dominate YOU while you're on the ground. The most lethal damage in an encounter usually happens from that range.

Interesting on Maeda, I had not heard that attributed to him.

Agreed on all of the rest. I personally have zero desire to go to the ground in a real fight for any number of reasons, but I do want to know what to do if I get taken there against my will.

 

[Ironbear24]

The methodology behind that stat is if there's people fighting one another, they're going to start striking each other, then clinch, then attempt to wrestle each other to the ground, then attempt to control on the ground. That methodology comes from Maeda, not the Gracie clan.

In your case, the fights ended in the second or third phase for whatever reason which is perfectly fine. Bjj 's methodology is that if you're dealing with someone physically much stronger than you, and they take you to the ground, then your ground skill will save you. On the flip side, you could be skillful enough to take them down on your terms and your ground skill will allow you to dominate them from that range.

The entire point of Bjj is to never let someone dominate YOU while you're on the ground. The most lethal damage in an encounter usually happens from that range.

Yeah you're right on that. They all ended in striking rang and clinch range.

I don't agree about the most lethal damage comes from ground range though, you can get kicked in the neck or the head and die from striking range, I will say that the ground range has potential to end fights very quick. Especially if the opponent is on the bottom position since they have to fight gravity + their own body weight + your own body weight.

 

[Ironbear24]

Interesting on Maeda, I had not heard that attributed to him.

Agreed on all of the rest. I personally have zero desire to go to the ground in a real fight for any number of reasons, but I do want to know what to do if I get taken there against my will.

I was skeptical about it at first, then I did it and it was actually very easy once they are in such position, when the opponent is grounded like that you can stomp them, punch or elbow many vital areas or slap them or give them a wet Willy. They also will be horrible at fighting back unless they have some experience.