Jan Dai lik (forward elbow intention)

[Vajramusti]

Lol. best post ever!

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The little train engine that can- yes I can yes I can.

The snake engine may have escaped from Kipling's Jungle Book.

 

[KPM]

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The little train engine that can- yes I can yes I can.

The snake engine may have escaped from Kipling's Jungle Book.

Snarky comments aside.......I think "engine" is a valid term. The engine is what powers the machine. In the case of martial arts, the biomechanics you use when expressing force in techniques is what "powers" your martial art, therefore the "engine." Engine is easier to say than "biomechanics" and has immediate connotations to people who aren't just looking to be critical and snarky. Karate has a different "engine" than Wing Chun. They generate power in their strikes differently, they move differently, they have different biomechanics. In my opinion, saying they have a different "engine" sums all of that up pretty nicely.

 

[Kwan Sau]

Had never even heard the term 'engine' till surfing some of these WC forums....

 

[JPinAZ]

Karate has a different "engine" than Wing Chun.

So does snake kung fu. Very much different. WC is complete system on it's own, I can't understand why people need to borrow from other arts to make things work (or is it just 'unique'), but to each his own...

 

[Hendrik]

Had never even heard the term 'engine' till surfing some of these WC forums....

Wick needs to move forward , we today has much much more information compare with past 6 decades. More terms needs to surface for better communication.


We do know lots of stuffs are made in Hong Kong and even overseas in the modern era. And hold like a religion.

In the reality , no one tell you the uprising cost 20 millions life and They lost the uprising , and for next fifteen years, those who didn't get kill go into hiding . Wck is not what the Hong Kong movie potrait, and there is Leung jan , but no king of kungfu who's name is Leung Jan in reality. So does there is Ipman but not the Ipman as in the movie

 

[Hendrik]

So does snake kung fu. Very much different. WC is complete system on it's own, I can't understand why people need to borrow from other arts to make things work (or is it just 'unique'), but to each his own...

Here is a brief description of Wck 1840，might not be what many thinks or believe or understand.

 

[Vajramusti]

Wick needs to move forward , we today has much much more information compare with past 6 decades. More terms needs to surface for better communication.


We do know lots of stuffs are made in Hong Kong and even overseas in the modern era. And hold like a religion.

In the reality , no one tell you the uprising cost 20 millions life and They lost the uprising , and for next fifteen years, those who didn't get kill go into hiding . Wck is not what the Hong Kong movie potrait, and there is Leung jan , but no king of kungfu who's name is Leung Jan in reality. So does there is Ipman but not the Ipman as in the movie

Wick needs to move forward , we today has much much more information compare with past 6 decades. More terms needs to surface for better communication.


We do know lots of stuffs are made in Hong Kong and even overseas in the modern era. And hold like a religion.

In the reality , no one tell you the uprising cost 20 millions life and They lost the uprising , and for next fifteen years, those who didn't get kill go into hiding . Wck is not what the Hong Kong movie potrait, and there is Leung jan , but no king of kungfu who's name is Leung Jan in reality. So does there is Ipman but not the Ipman as in the movie

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Wing chun has moved forward past Yik Kam and snake "engine"- but some will go on and on.

 

[KPM]

So does snake kung fu. Very much different. WC is complete system on it's own, I can't understand why people need to borrow from other arts to make things work (or is it just 'unique'), but to each his own...

We're not talking about snake kung fu. We're talking about Wing Chun. You know....the art with the legend about combining elements from seeing a Snake and a Crane fighting? Just a legend, but legends often hide elements of truth.

 

[KPM]

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Wing chun has moved forward past Yik Kam and snake "engine"- but some will go on and on.

I've said this elsewhere, but I'll say it again. I don't know if Hendrik has come upon the "original" way of doing things from 1840, and I really don't care. What I care is that I'm really enjoying and seeing the value of what he has been saying as it is now being expressed in the Chu Sau Lei Wing Chun I am learning. It makes good sense from a biomechanical and application standpoint. New? Old? I don't know. But I do see it as an improvement and advancement upon all of the Wing Chun I have learned in the past. Now, in anticipation of the response I know is coming.....l did learn good Wing Chun. I did learn it well. I see the Wing Chun that a lot of other people are doing and understand it perfectly. I've been there in many instances. But in my opinion, and for me, what I am doing now is an improvement upon what I learned in the past. What I am doing now is my Wing Chun "moving forward."

 

[Vajramusti]

Wick needs to move forward , we today has much much more information compare with past 6 decades. More terms needs to surface for better communication.


We do know lots of stuffs are made in Hong Kong and even overseas in the modern era. And hold like a religion.

In the reality , no one tell you the uprising cost 20 millions life and They lost the uprising , and for next fifteen years, those who didn't get kill go into hiding . Wck is not what the Hong Kong movie potrait, and there is Leung jan , but no king of kungfu who's name is Leung Jan in reality. So does there is Ipman but not the Ipman as in the movie

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No Leung Jan? But there is Hendrik's 1840 fantasy. Revisionist history continues.

 

[Jake104]

Ok so Snake engine is a buzzword to describe a certain snake like body mechanic? Ok, I get it. It's just the way it gets thrown around here. Its giving people the impression that it's some sort of ancient mysterious missing link to Wing Chun that we are all missing? When in reality it's pretty basic like previously mentioned.. Sounds like marketing. Sorry, not trying to come off "snarky". Just being 100% real and calling it how I see it.

 

[Jake104]

The whole point of me participating in this thread was not to sell anyone on my idea of what I think "proper" WC energy is or should be. But rather, explore the idea of WC energy. Taking it a step further than just basic forward sinking elbow straight line. My Wing chun forward energy is much more than just that.

 

[Kwan Sau]

Now, in anticipation of the response I know is coming.....l did learn good Wing Chun. I did learn it well.

Just curious but what do you mean by "good Wing Chun" and "learn it well"? I seem to recall from previous posts of yours that you've been around the block, with various WC lineages...so how do you know you learned good Wing Chun? How do you know you learned it well? Just curious.
Some of us don't think much of this ancient wc that hendrik and his constituents praise. I for one think it (the secret kool aid) is nothing new, very basic to good WC, and nothing that needs to be "re-discovered" or "invented".

I see the Wing Chun that a lot of other people are doing and understand it perfectly. I've been there in many instances.

So, are you saying here that you can simply view others' WC and understand it perfectly from viewing it via video or even in person but with no personal long-term involvement? Or, have you touched hands with "a lot of other people" (as you say) and have formed your opinions from those hands-on experiences? Again, just curious and trying to build some context to your statements.

 

[KPM]

----I find your questions just a bit insulting. You imply that I don't know what I'm talking about.

Just curious but what do you mean by "good Wing Chun" and "learn it well"?

---It means whatever you want it to mean! I was anticipating the typical response you get in a forum....."well, if you think that, you obviously didn't learn GOOD Wing Chun!" or "well, if you think that, then you probably had a poor teacher and just didn't learn it like you were supposed to!" I learned perfectly acceptable and "good" Wing Chun and I was good at what I learned. Its as simple as that. It was not second rate Wing Chun learned from the internet, and I'm not some 16 year old behind a keyboard running his mouth!


Some of us don't think much of this ancient wc that hendrik and his constituents praise. I for one think it (the secret kool aid) is nothing new, very basic to good WC, and nothing that needs to be "re-discovered" or "invented".

---So I'll turn it around on you then. How do you know what you learned is "good WC"?? How do you know you learned it well? I've been involved in Wing Chun in some form for over 30 years. I've learned 3 different lineages of Wing Chun. How about you? Why should anyone believe your opinion is any better than mine, given that you didn't give any more information to support it than I did?

---I will say that none of those 3 lineages that I studied had the subtle biomechanics and power handling that I am now learning in Chu Sau Lei WCK. Robert Chu says that it comes from Hendrik. So I believe him. And if you ask Robert, he will tell you that of all the Wing Chun he has studied and been exposed to (and its a lot!) he didn't find the total package in any of them until he met Hendrik and saw Yik Kam WCK. Did Hendrik make it up himself? Like I said, I don't know and I don't care.



So, are you saying here that you can simply view others' WC and understand it perfectly from viewing it via video or even in person but with no personal long-term involvement? Or, have you touched hands with "a lot of other people" (as you say) and have formed your opinions from those hands-on experiences? Again, just curious and trying to build some context to your statements.

---Again, I'll turn it around on you. Have you had personal long-term involvement with Hendrik or Robert? Have you touched hands with either of them or with any of their students? If not, just how can you say that ......" I for one think it (the secret kool aid) is nothing new, very basic to good WC, and nothing that needs to be "re-discovered" or "invented"."????

---Because the answer is "yes". I have had personal long-term involvement in "good" Ip Man Wing Chun as well as "good" Pin Sun Wing Chun. And "yes" I have touched hands with a fair number of people from both.

---So again, I find your tone and assumptions a bit insulting. Maybe that's not what you intended. But it certainly comes across that way.

 

[Vajramusti]

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No Leung Jan? But there is Hendrik's 1840 fantasy. Revisionist history continues.

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FWIW I have done chi sao with Hendrik in his house some years ago. He was a god host.
But I was unimpressed with his skills.This is not based on hearsay.
His recent comments on Leung Jan , Ip Man and wing chun in Hong Kong are tiresome bits of self promotion
and pushing for his snake engine..And insulting.
And I have seen Roselando's gu lao pinsun- an incomplete (compared to Ip man's art) collection of a few key motions. And I have rolled with Hawkins Cheung, WSL, TST, Victor Kan and my sifu, and sigung and sihings and have used my wing chun in testing against grapplers, punchers and throwers.
The point is my comments are based on considerable experience. But when I do wing chun I do wing chun That has evolved from a good lineage and do not legitimize what I do by claiming to have learned pin sun, gu lao, TWC etc.
Yes- years in martial arts can result in a good evolution and it can also result in doing many arts superficially.
Without name dropping before further snake body promoting and uninformative videos, I wish Hendrik would explain in detail the fundamental mechanics and dynamics of his snake body.
Referring to emei videos is insufficient.
In my own case, what I do is profiled in several articles in the Journal of Asian Martial arts, Inside Kung Fu, Kung Fu Taichi and is here in the article section of my web site at
Welcome to Tempe Wing Chun Kung-Fu .

 

[Vajramusti]

Wick needs to move forward , we today has much much more information compare with past 6 decades. More terms needs to surface for better communication.


We do know lots of stuffs are made in Hong Kong and even overseas in the modern era. And hold like a religion.

In the reality , no one tell you the uprising cost 20 millions life and They lost the uprising , and for next fifteen years, those who didn't get kill go into hiding . Wck is not what the Hong Kong movie potrait, and there is Leung jan , but no king of kungfu who's name is Leung Jan in reality. So does there is Ipman but not the Ipman as in the movie

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"No king of kung fu who's name is Leung Jan in reality"- an amazing statement. Please not by another video but in prose outline the details
of the claimed unique dynamics of snake body. 6 directions and x bows-joint springs are not unique.

 

[Hendrik]

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"No king of kung fu who's name is Leung Jan in reality"- an amazing statement. .

There is no such king of kungfu in Chinese history in the Leung Jan era.

That is an era of the battle of hundreds of uprisers of anti Qing and Qing general, but sorry, no king of Kung fu, and There is no evidence that Leung Jan associated with anyone these Up risers as listed in the following video in the map with names. Disregards of the claims of Leung jan as king of kungfu in the past 70 years or hk movies propaganda.

However, yik kam associate with Lee Man Mau who is listed in the map. Yik kam salutation ...etc are solid evidence of his involve in the uprising or anti Qing battle lead by Lee Man Mau.

 

[Hendrik]

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"Please not by another video but in prose outline the details
of the claimed unique dynamics of snake body. 6 directions and x bows-joint springs are not unique.

Navin has visited those who you refer to as great.

If Navin willing to
Let Navin honestly share what is the different between what I share and what he experience from others

 

[Hendrik]

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FWIW I have done chi sao with Hendrik in his house some years ago. He was a god host.
But I was unimpressed with his skills.This is not based on hearsay.
His recent comments on Leung Jan , Ip Man and wing chun in Hong Kong are tiresome bits of self promotion
and pushing for his snake engine..And insulting.
And I have seen Roselando's gu lao pinsun- an incomplete (compared to Ip man's art) collection of a few key motions. And I have rolled with Hawkins Cheung, WSL, TST, Victor Kan and my sifu, and sigung and sihings and have used my wing chun in testing against grapplers, punchers and throwers.
The point is my comments are based on considerable experience. But when I do wing chun I do wing chun That has evolved from a good lineage and do not legitimize what I do by claiming to have learned pin sun, gu lao, TWC etc.
Yes- years in martial arts can result in a good evolution and it can also result in doing many arts superficially.
Without name dropping before further snake body promoting and uninformative videos, I wish Hendrik would explain in detail the fundamental mechanics and dynamics of his snake body.
Referring to emei videos is insufficient.
In my own case, what I do is profiled in several articles in the Journal of Asian Martial arts, Inside Kung Fu, Kung Fu Taichi and is here in the article section of my web site at
Welcome to Tempe Wing Chun Kung-Fu .

Why don't you ask Phil Romero, Robert Chu, Alan Orr , Sergio, Jim .... ... Navin.......... , wcners across different lineages why they study with me ?

 

[Hendrik]

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His recent comments on Leung Jan , Ip Man and wing chun in Hong Kong are tiresome bits of self promotion
and pushing for his snake engine..And insulting.
.

1.
As in the above post,
I have post with evidence, there is no such thing as King of kungfu in the era Leung Jan live. And Leung is not even listed in the history of China within the hundreds of uprising leader. There is no evidence he has associated with these uprising.


2. Ipman in reality is not who was shown in the Ipman movie.

We all know the movie making people has to appology to YKS decendent because of they are twisting the facts to promote Ipman in the movie.

This is the proof in public domain

3.

I don't need promote anything, facts are facts. I don't make movies and I don't make a single cent.

As for insulting, present the facts of history as above with evidence is not insult anyone.

To the contradiction, those who knowingly twisting the facts to promoting themself are misbehave