Jan Dai lik (forward elbow intention)

[Jake104]

KPM great defintion of Jarn Dai lik (forward elbow intention)!

Jarn Dai lik (forward elbow intention) is only one component of the 6 directional force vector model necessary for whole body power. The reason i started this thread was because I found too many wing chun practioners try to unnaturally force their elbow into their centerline. I believe this to be incorrect. The 6 directional force vector serves as a great teaching aid for what the correct positioning in wck or any internal martial art should be.

What are the other 5 components?
Edit
Nevermind I didn't see the video in your post.

 

[kung fu fighter]

What are the other 5 components?

1.upward, 2.downward, 3.left side, 4.right side, 5.backward

When the seven bows are fully developed, and one get pressed from any direction, the bows will naturally respond by default without the need to use intent, as if pressing a spring or yoga ball exactly like Hendrik explained in the video above.

 

[Vajramusti]

1.upward, 2.downward, 3.left side, 4.right side, 5.backward

When the seven bows are fully developed, and one get pressed from any direction, the bows will naturally respond by default without the need to use intent, as if pressing a spring or yoga ball exactly like Hendrik explained in the video above.

 

[Vajramusti]

Good Ip Man wing chun akways has had well developed concepts of the role of the elbows, the directions and the cooordinated springs in the joints

 

[kung fu fighter]

Good Ip Man wing chun akways has had well developed concepts of the role of the elbows, the directions and the cooordinated springs in the joints

True! but not at the snake engine force flow level, please don't take my word for it just ask Robert Chu or Phil Romero, they both has had experience in good Yip Man wck as well as the snake engine force flow of Yik Kam wing chun.

Good Yip Man wck only have the forward elbow intent coupled with the hip for power generation as well as maintaining a strong structural support for receiving force component that Keith already mentioned earlier in this thread. This is not the full picture of the snake engine force flow level, imagine two wheel drive vs four wheel drive.

 

[Vajramusti]

True! but not at the snake engine force flow level, please don't take my word for it just ask Robert Chu or Phil Romero, they both has had experience in good Yip Man wck as well as the snake engine force flow of Yik Kam wing chun.

Good Yip Man wck only have the forward elbow intent coupled with the hip for power generation as well as maintaining a strong structural support for receiving force component that Keith already mentioned earlier in this thread. This is not the full picture of the snake engine force flow level, imagine two wheel drive vs four wheel drive.

-------------------------------------------------We have had similar discussions before and our perspectives differ. Not just hip power. The entire body is linked.

 

[kung fu fighter]

Not just hip power. The entire body is linked.

linking the entire body is not the same as opening the body. different approach and cultivation process!

 

[KPM]

linking the entire body is not the same as opening the body. different approach and cultivation process!

Navin is right. Linking the entire body as a unit can create a rigid structure. That is not at all what Navin is referring to.

 

[Vajramusti]

linking the entire body is not the same as opening the body. different approach and cultivation process!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-Linking the body properly can be just the opposite of rigidity.
We are on different paths.

 

[kung fu fighter]

Navin is right. Linking the entire body as a unit can create a rigid structure. That is not at all what Navin is referring to.

Correct! When the 7 bows are opened the body feels like it's levitating loose and light, linking the entire body generally involves sinking and feels heavy. Perhaps if Joy posted a clip of what he is referring to by "Linking the entire body" we can get a better picture of his view.

Linking the body properly can be just the opposite of rigidity. We are on different paths.

Joy Please correct me if I am wrong, but I assume you are referring to the structure demoed in this video since this guy is also from Fong's linage.

 

[Vajramusti]

Good luck with your snake engine

 

[kung fu fighter]

Good luck with your snake engine

Thank you! The structure demoed in the clip above is completely different compared to the Snake Engine force Flow

 

[Vajramusti]

Thank you! The structure demoed in the clip above is completely different compared to the Snake Engine force Flow

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So what. I never have used the gobbledegook terms of snake engine force flow. Good night folks.

 

[kung fu fighter]

So what.

it Means we are talking about completely different things, you are using structure or frame as in the clip I posted above, I am using force flow snake engine.

 

[Vajramusti]

it Means we are talking about completely different things, you are using structure or frame as in the clip I posted above, I am using force flow snake engine.

 

[Vajramusti]

Yes we are doing different things-my point from the start. Structure is not a dead fixed thing. There is very fluid dynamics involved.
Once you showed a version of your "snake engine"-I was not impressed.Can we disagree and move on?

 

[Jake104]

Yes we are doing different things-my point from the start. Structure is not a dead fixed thing. There is very fluid dynamics involved.
Once you showed a version of your "snake engine"-I was not impressed.Can we disagree and move on?

 

[Jake104]

1.upward, 2.downward, 3.left side, 4.right side, 5.backward

When the seven bows are fully developed, and one get pressed from any direction, the bows will naturally respond by default without the need to use intent, as if pressing a spring or yoga ball exactly like Hendrik explained in the video above.

Can you do all six at once? I get the spring compression thing but what ifthe energy you are receiving is smart and doesn't compress your spring? What if it clamps your spring energy?

Compressing a spring is a good example. I'm glad you used this example. I compress springs all the time in my line of work. I'm a auto technician, fancy title for a mechanic. I use a spring compressor tool. The spring has to be perfectly aligned in the tool. Otherwise if not straight it will collapse and buckle and then it becomes a very dangerous projectile. So what if your opponents energy is not straight and you collapse or buckle? Also there are two ways of compressing a spring that I know of. Two different methods. You either place spring against a fixed pad and use leverage to compress or you clamp at both ends and use mechanical torque to overcome the energy. So if you take one component out of either method, the spring becomes impossible to compress.. So it sounds to me like this compressed spring theory might work under the right circumstances. But in a fight against a competent opponent that uses smarty energy. Probably not.

 

[kung fu fighter]

Yes we are doing different things-my point from the start. Structure is not a dead fixed thing. There is very fluid dynamics involved.

I never said Structure was a dead fixed thing, however there are different degrees of freedom. In my opinion Structure as in the clip I posted above has more degree of freedom than rooting/Rack, but way less than the snake engine force flow. After having done Structure as in the clip above for 20 years before learning force flow I can certainly tell the difference, during this time I even had structure explained to me by HKM's final deciple Kiet Pham as well as touching hands with him. Since you only know structure it's difficult for you to have an informed opinion.

Once you showed a version of your "snake engine"-I was not impressed.Can we disagree and move on?

Opinions vary, in fact my kung fu nephews was not impressed with your structure when you touched hands with them, that does not mean structure is not valid. At least I showed my version of the "snake engine", which is less than i can say for you showing your version of structure so that I can have the opportunity to be impressed. What I showed in my clip was the first level of force flow, there are 9 levels. lol

 

[kung fu fighter]

Can you do all six at once?

yes

I get the spring compression thing but what ifthe energy you are receiving is smart and doesn't compress your spring? What if it clamps your spring energy?

it's not a static spring, more like the suspension system of a car ( think of how the car feels when going over speed bumps)

Compressing a spring is a good example. I'm glad you used this example. I compress springs all the time in my line of work. I'm a auto technician, fancy title for a mechanic. I use a spring compressor tool. The spring has to be perfectly aligned in the tool. Otherwise if not straight it will collapse and buckle and then it becomes a very dangerous projectile. So what if your opponents energy is not straight and you collapse or buckle? Also there are two ways of compressing a spring that I know of. Two different methods. You either place spring against a fixed pad and use leverage to compress or you clamp at both ends and use mechanical torque to overcome the energy. So if you take one component out of either method, the spring becomes impossible to compress.. So it sounds to me like this compressed spring theory might work under the right circumstances. But in a fight against a competent opponent that uses smarty energy. Probably not.

i have no idea what "smarty energy" is, nor "clamping your spring energy", perhaps you can explain??