Jan Dai lik (forward elbow intention)

[zuti car]

Power generation via turning of the hips, and hip rotation, is in 2nd and 3rd forms of most WC...

This could lead to endless discussion . I have only one question, if first form is not necessary , if rotating hips are the best power generation method for wing chun and if the system is built around that method than why first form even exist ?

 

[Kwan Sau]

This could lead to endless discussion . I have only one question, if first form is not necessary , if rotating hips are the best power generation method for wing chun and if the system is built around that method than why first form even exist ?

Who said first form is not necessary???
Who said rotating hips is the best power generation method for wing chun???

 

[KPM]

This could lead to endless discussion . I have only one question, if first form is not necessary , if rotating hips are the best power generation method for wing chun and if the system is built around that method than why first form even exist ?

Who said the first form wasn't necessary? You don't rotate the hips in your second form? SNT is entirely stationary. CK adds footwork. One of those footwork methods is rotating. That's WCK 101. You can generate power driving forward, standing still, or rotating the hip. Power comes from the ground controlled by the Kua and up the spine in all three instances. SNT teaches fundamental structure and position. CK teaches how to make that mobile and start applying it. And who said rotating hips were THE best power generation method for Wing Chun? In that clip of Aaron Baum he is rotating his hip, pressing forward from the Kua, rising up, sinking.....not just rotating hips.

 

[zuti car]

Sorry Zuti. I disagree. You think Wing Chun doesn't use the hips? I would have had the same reaction that you had not long ago. But once you start to do it and know what it is, its easier to see and you know the differences. That clip is absolutely not western boxing.

I never said that , I use hips for hooks and some elbow strikes not for straight line punches . This kind of thing is common among many wing chun people who start seriously to practice and to fight and then realize that "wing chun power generation" is not efficient enough and they start with hip rotation and justify that with " we have that in 2nd and 3rd" form . Many people believe they know how to generate power and relax but when they meet heavy bag they see they cannot generate sufficient amount of power . Instead to reevaluate what they did wrong , they just abandon that and switch to hip rotation which is much easier to learn and will give enough power even if it is not done properly 100% .

 

[Kwan Sau]

Zuti...where do you get this idea that WC doesn't / can't use hip rotation?!?!?!?!?!

 

[zuti car]

In that clip of Aaron Baum he is rotating his hip, pressing forward from the Kua, rising up, sinking.....not just rotating hips.

Like many good boxers do , boxing is not just hip rotation but all these things you said here just without Chinese terminology

 

[zuti car]

Zuti...where do you get this idea that WC doesn't / can't use hip rotation?!?!?!?!?!

Did I said that? On the other hand , guy from the clip is doing boxing and call it wing chun .

 

[Kwan Sau]

IMHO, if it's in the forms...its there for us to use in whatever manner we see fit. Body turning, hip rotation, and hip torque'ing are all in the forms. Therefore, they are free game! If your form(s) have hip / waist methods that you dismiss or haven't yet seen or used, that's on you. As KPM stated, first form is all about heels/elbows, etc. Second form = time to go mobile!

 

[Kwan Sau]

Did I said that? On the other hand , guy from the clip is using doing boxing and call it wing chun .

Well, like you said...this could lead to endless discussion... Clearly we all have differing ideas and such is life.

 

[zuti car]

Well, like you said...this could lead to endless discussion... Clearly we all have differing ideas and such is life.

Before we finish ,tell me just one thing , are you also Hendrik's follower ?

 

[Kwan Sau]

Before we finish ,tell me just one thing , are you also Hendrik's follower ?

Not in the slightest.

I hope he and his guys have a fulfilling wing chun journey, but no, not a subscriber. Good Yip Man WC has what I need. Thx for asking though.

 

[Danny T]

... guy from the clip is doing boxing and call it wing chun .

He isn't doing western boxing, if he is then it is poor.
What he is doing is using a lot punching from a high guard position and not bunch of centerline cycling punching. But there is a lot of wc displayed.

 

[zuti car]

Not in the slightest.

I hope he and his guys have a fulfilling wing chun journey, but no, not a subscriber. Good Yip Man WC has what I need. Thx for asking though.

Just wanted to be sure , I am not often here so I can't catch up who is who and who is doing what ( and do not care to be honest )

 

[Hendrik]

The issue is you guys keep thinking mechanical system while the SNT set is to develop hydraulic system as the platform of Wck.

Rotate hip in a mechanical system and a hydraulic system might look similar but it is a totally different handling .


For past sixty years wcners keep thinking in a mechanical system way which lead to not be able to develop the hydraulic system of SNT.

Snake engine is a hydraulic system instead of a pure mechanical one.

 

[Hendrik]

I care less if it is yik kam system, Ipman system, YKS system , or Hendrik system....etc

If it doesn't work according to its design to deliver full potential. it doesn't matter who's system.

 

[zuti car]

Before I go to sleep I have one more question regarding this video clip .Before I ask a question I have to say I have some years in Shotokan karate and I am familiar with that art . Let's say I am wrong and that is wing chun , is , well that was called in Shotokan karate "combat Zenkutsu dachi " stance prevalent stance in wing chun system ? Or it is used only for heavy bag training ?

 

[zuti car]

The issue is you guys keep thinking mechanical system while the SNT set is to develop hydraulic system as the platform of Wck.

Rotate hip in a mechanical system and a hydraulic system might look similar but it is a totally different handling .


For past sixty years wcners keep thinking in a mechanical system way which lead to not be able to develop the hydraulic system of SNT.

Snake engine is a hydraulic system instead of a pure mechanical one.

You like to make videos , make one where you punching something , heavy bag for instance , so we can all see what are you talking about

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

You like to make videos , make one where you punching something , heavy bag for instance , so we can all see what are you talking about

I have asked Herdrik on this before. By using the "snake engine" to show how to generate power on a heavy bag can be valuable. After all MA is 2 persons art, if the other person is not there, the heavy bag may be the next best thing to have (at least from the striking art point of view).

 

[KPM]

Like many good boxers do , boxing is not just hip rotation but all these things you said here just without Chinese terminology

No doubt! But they do it differently and combine them differently. You don't sink or rise or press or rotate in your Wing Chun?

 

[KPM]

Did I said that? On the other hand , guy from the clip is doing boxing and call it wing chun .

Absolutely not true Zuti! And I described exactly what to look for to see the differences. You can say "I can't see what you are pointing out" and that's fine. But don't say "the guy from the clip is doing boxing and call it Wing Chun." Because I said it is not western boxing. It is Chu Sau Lei Wing Chun. Are you saying I don't know what I'm talking about?