Is there a connection ??

[MichiganTKD]

Aw Shucks! Just tryin' to be helpful Sir!

 

[StraightRazor]

I think the original poster here may be onto something. Ive noticed a few people who are into martial arts and "fantasy" stuff, like they go together. Maybe some people use the martial arts as a way to embody their "fantasy" self. The fantasy may be sword wielding D&D hero, Anime character or Special Forces ultimate killing machine.

 

[OULobo]

I think the original poster here may be onto something. Ive noticed a few people who are into martial arts and "fantasy" stuff, like they go together. Maybe some people use the martial arts as a way to embody their "fantasy" self. The fantasy may be sword wielding D&D hero, Anime character or Special Forces ultimate killing machine.

I agree, there is definitly a tendancy for fantasy people of all sorts to gravitate towards martial arts. Still I don't count it as a bad thing.

 

[hedgehogey]

However, the ones that stay and train seriously are definitely different. I'm not talking about the ones who just train for tournaments. Those are athletes, just in a non-western sport. No, the ones who stay and train seriously are, as another poster put it, like tigers. They tend to be solitary, but not antisocial. Just not into group activities. Tigers have this tremendous inner power that other animals fear and respect.
Serious martial artists, such as traditional Tae Kwon Do or karate students are the same way. They have this tremendous inner power (ki energy) that causes a great deal of fear and respect in non martial arts. It's not intimidation. Non students are not afraid of us, but they know almost instinctively that there in an energy in us that must be respected.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! HA! Ha. Ha. hah. heh. haha. heh. This is one of the funniest, most realultimatepower.net esque things i've heard recently.
FEAR and RESPECT the tigers....oooohhahahahahaha!
Ok, joke's over, you weren't serious with that, were you?

Now, as for the original topic:

God do I hate those kindof people, at least at first. They'll talk all day, but when it comes time to get on the mat, they're never there.
Luckily full contact, sports based training tends to either weed out or transform these individuals. They get a REAL idea of what their skills are, and slowly but surely gain true confidence through functional, alive training.

 

[MichiganTKD]

Hedgehogey,

I am absolutely serious. You see, so called "reality self defense" stylists are convinced this power doesn't exist, becaus they can't grapple it or put it into a headlock. It's nothing mystical. It is inner power that comes from serious traditional training. Grapplers and sport stylists don't have it. Granted, many them are in good physical shape, but that's it.
I assume you don't practice traditional martial arts, and that's your choice. But rest assured, traditional practice develops power that so called "reality fightesr" and sports fighters can only dream of.
As far as getting on the mat, that proves nothing. All it shows is who was the better fighter that particular day. Anyway, you guys are bound by rules. Traditionalists practice with the idea that they will do whtever it takes to beat an opponent. Not to win a match, but to defend your life.
Finally, traditional students also work on being honorable members of society with honorable minds. Reality fighters do not concern themselves with this. It is only about winning.

 

[TigerWoman]

I know what you are talking about. My master/instructor has that presence. He can be quite "scary" when he's angry but is usually quiet and generally reclusive. But because he has this aura, or ki he attracts alot of people and people notice him. And there is power, he seems quite effortless with it, cat-like, light on his feet. Not someone you would want to mess with. (I have, and if looks could kill, but he kept control, but not completely...) I also know someone else, and people commented on him knowing his power, before I looked to see who was there. It was a guy who was testing for 4th Dan soon. He wore street clothes and had just come in. He had it too. I've met others at tournaments even a 7th but haven't felt it then. There's something to that, ki energy.

 

[MichiganTKD]

Exactly.

There is a big difference between just being good at technique, and having that inner quality that comes from hard traditional practice. Even I don't know exactly what it is, but it does exist. And it doesn't matter what art you practice, be it Tae Kwon Do, Karate, Aikido, traditional Kung Fu.
This power is just a manifestation of the inner power that is inside great masters.
Some who had this power, I believe, were Ueshiba, Gen. Choi, Bruce Lee, my own Instructor. You can just look at their eyes and know they had it.

 

[OULobo]

Hedge does have a good point about the idea of weeding out or transforming individuals. I have seen many people come into the school with a good heart and good intentions, but they just can't cut it in the ring. They can only get hammered so many times before they just can't continue. They refused to "rise to the occation". On the other hand, I have seen quite a few people of the same type that I don't think will make it come in and tackle the steep learning curve with a very strong heart. They come out as great fighters with a totally new outlook on MAs, fighting and life in general. The problem is that many arts have no gauntlet to run, no method to reaonalbly test meddle and so they settle for stroking students. Some teachers stroke students to retain them for financial purposes. Hence the birthing of the McDojo and belt factory.

 

[kenpo tiger]

Exactly.

There is a big difference between just being good at technique, and having that inner quality that comes from hard traditional practice. Even I don't know exactly what it is, but it does exist. And it doesn't matter what art you practice, be it Tae Kwon Do, Karate, Aikido, traditional Kung Fu.
This power is just a manifestation of the inner power that is inside great masters.
Some who had this power, I believe, were Ueshiba, Gen. Choi, Bruce Lee, my own Instructor. You can just look at their eyes and know they had it.

I was going to stay out of this discussion - interesting as it is - but felt compelled to address the "tiger" allusion.

In kenpo, our crest has both the tiger and the dragon. The tiger is lower on the crest, representing corporeal or physical strength, which is acquired through learning and training. The dragon is higher, with the tiger looking up at it. The dragon represents the spiritual strength or ki you mention. That is why my instructor is a dragon. He, too, has that 'presence' Tigerwoman alludes to in her post. While he is fairly tall, he isn't a big man physically, but it takes no more than one time attempting to do a technique on him to realize that 'the power' is there.

I would also like to add that I've trained in wtf tkd, which is, as you know, a traditional art. We had to practice the respectful address of our instructors by title on the mat, but there was only one (not the master) at the school who had presence and still does, although his ma career is on hold at the moment. The others were simiply good technicians (including the master), and I have always tried to pattern my ma after the above-mentioned instructor.

Just as an aside, and probably a totally different thread: does anyone else find that they are focused on hearing their instructor's voice, even in a crowd?

Thank you all for your informative and humorous posts. I learn something every time I log on to this site. :asian: KT

 

[MichiganTKD]

I used the tiger allusion because of its importance in Korean culture-the reclusive animal with tremendous inner power. Other cultures and arts use other animals to mean the same thing. For example, the aforementioned dragon in Chinese mythology. The point is still the same-have a power presence cultivated through inner power.

 

[kenpo tiger]

Absolutely.

 

[StraightRazor]

Do tigers run down antelope with their KI? Or do they just levitate and shoot "inner power" lightning bols out of their eyes. Do all predators possess these inner powers? Ive always liked Hawks?

 

[hedgehogey]

Hedgehogey,

I am absolutely serious. You see, so called "reality self defense" stylists are convinced this power doesn't exist, becaus they can't grapple it or put it into a headlock.

1: Full contact sport fighters and "REALITY SELF DEFENSE" experts are different things.

2: We don't practice "headlocks".

It's nothing mystical. It is inner power that comes from serious traditional training. Grapplers and sport stylists don't have it. Granted, many them are in good physical shape, but that's it.

Ok, so there's this inner power that you can develop through association with the tiger and by making ritual movements. It is undefinable and invisible. That sounds pretty mystical.

I assume you don't practice traditional martial arts, and that's your choice.

Smartest decision i've ever made. But I have in the past.

But rest assured, traditional practice develops power that so called "reality fightesr" and sports fighters can only dream of.

Still mystical sounding. What is this "power"? SHOW ME YOUR POWER! YOU HAVE NO CHANCE TO SURVIVE, MAKE YOUR TIME! AND OTHER STUPID INTERNET MEMES

As far as getting on the mat, that proves nothing. All it shows is who was the better fighter that particular day.

What if he continues to get owned, day after day?

Anyway, you guys are bound by rules.

So are you. In fact, you are bound by MUCH more restrictive rules than us, seeing as you almost never hit anything. Simulating eye gouging but never being allowed to use it on a person fighting back? It doesn't get more restrictive than that.

Anyway, you do TKD, which has the most restrictive tournament ruleset in the martial arts!

Traditionalists practice with the idea that they will do whtever it takes to beat an opponent. Not to win a match, but to defend your life.

So, when do you, you know, hit each other? Like how they do on teh str33t. You know, where people punch each other. And try to knock each other out.

Finally, traditional students also work on being honorable members of society with honorable minds. Reality fighters do not concern themselves with this. It is only about winning.

Martial arts won't make you a better person any more than any other athletic activity.

 

[hedgehogey]

To everyone else on here: Why is everyone letting this mystical aura bs go on?

 

[kenpo tiger]

Because it's his opinion and he's allowed to have it and share it. Just because you disagree doesn't make you correct, either. That's what makes this a forum for discussion. Not everyone trains in ma to bang heads.

 

[MichiganTKD]

I used the tiger and the dragon as illustrations for what I was talking about. Tigers do not hunt antelope with their Ki, or shoot beams out of their eyes. I never said Ki energy allowed us to do mystical things. Mystical implies magic and the supernatural. That's not what Ki is about.
Think of it this way: the symbol of America is the bald eagle. As Americans we do not aspire to grow feathers and wings. The bald eagle represents the determination and majesty of our country. We aspire to what the bald eagle represents to us. As martial artists, we don't aspire to be tigers or dragons, we aspire to achieve what they represent.
Ki energy is like electricity, and MA practice is sort of like a dynamo. It helps us develop this energy. With proper training in whatever art, a tremendous amount of energy is developed. Have you ever met a true master who was sluggish, tired, and weak? I never have. True masters are almost literally walking dynamos of internal energy. Traditional martial arts practice develops this energy like a dynamo develops electricity. It's nothing mystical, it is your body's energy developed from within that can help you remain healthy and energetic.

 

[kenpo tiger]

To everyone else on here: Why is everyone letting this mystical aura bs go on?

I think because we're all individuals and we perceive life in each of our different ways, there are some people who believe in "this mystical aura" being attained through ma. I think MichTKD was referring to 'presence', which I personally interpret as an altogether different thing - more like charisma.

No one is trashing reality fighting, Hedgey, so please pull in your spines and try to realize that we all would like to get different things from our training. I personally have never been in a real fight nor do I ever aspire to. However, I HAVE been the victim of an attack when I was a teenager and I NEVER want to be a victim again. Therefore, I train for self defense and train other woman and children to be safe. The 'enlightenment' part? I think I learn more about myself through pushing my perceived limits every time I step on the mat.

Fantasy and the 'geek' factor in ma, which is the original idea of this thread: we all fantasize in one way or another. Don't you fight because you want to win? Do you find that you admire the style of one of the ultimate fighters currently competing and try to emulate them? [And, btw - do you play video games?]

 

[hedgehogey]

Fantasy and the 'geek' factor in ma, which is the original idea of this thread: we all fantasize in one way or another. Don't you fight because you want to win?

No, I fight because I want to test myself.

Do you find that you admire the style of one of the ultimate fighters currently competing and try to emulate them?

No. That's a good way to mess up your game right there.

[And, btw - do you play video games?]

No.

 

[hedgehogey]

MichTKD: Look, can you provide one scrap of evidence that this tiger aura exists.

 

[Shu2jack]

I half-agree with MichTKD. I do not believe in "ki" or any of that stuff, I do believe that studying traditional martial arts for a long period of time (10+ years) gives one a strong sense of center- which is what I took as when he refers to "the tiger".

People with a strong sense of center, of self, or what ever you want to call it tend to give off an aura. Self-confidence, among other things and people are attracted to those who give off such things. Remember- ladies dig guys with confidence.

Those who quit the MA tend to lack the drive, the perserverance, the dedication, the toughness, etc. to stick with it. Not all people quit because of these reasons, but they are common reasons. People who stick with a MA tend to have a toughness to them, they are dedicated, they have the drive. These are qualities that people respect and what draws others to people with these qualities. The people with these qualities are "tigers."

Now, does this strong sense of center or these "tigers" automatically gain the ability to kick anybodies butt? Of course not. They can get there butts handed to them as well. Do Pride fighters or "reality" martial artists lack it? No. One can gain a strong sense of center and self through competition and other forms of training, though due to the focuses of training between "traditional" and "reality", I believe traditional arts tend to be more benifical to one who wants to grow in ways besides just fighting. Thus, those MA who tend to give out that "aura" are traditional martial artists. Always remember though, to base it on the individual school, not the style.