Is grappling better for female self defense than striking?

[jezr74]

If you're a black belt in Karate or TKD, and you can't break a board or capable of doing competent-looking kata, then your instruction was seriously lacking.

The same would apply to a Judo, Bjj, or Sambo black belt who couldn't utilize proper throws, chokes, takedowns, or leg locks. However, I don't honestly see that ever occurring since those arts emphasize a high level of hard sparring. There's simply no way you're advancing through the ranks in Bjj for example if you can't do the basics.



the techniques are fine. It's the people doing the technique that's the problem, along with MA teachers simply not caring about the proficiency of their students.

Btw, here's part 2;

But I can see endless accounts of high level bjj people failing to apply a technique when they roll. In competition only one person can win, so someone had to fail.

I don't think it's possible for any person to run at 100% 100% of the time. We are human after all.

 

[K-man]

Hanzou is showing these clips because the only way he can feel good about himself is by tearing down others.

Is that not obvious?

Good to see you've had a change of heart. You gave me a dislike sometime back for pointing out the same thing.

 

[Flying Crane]

Good to see you've had a change of heart. You gave me a dislike sometime back for pointing out the same thing.

If I did, then it was purely an accident. That happened once on another thread, apparently I hit the dislike button without realizing it while scrolling thru on my iPhone. Must have happened on one of yours too. I NEVER would have disagreed with you on that, and I believe I have never intentionally given a disagree to anyone. I just tend to not give the negative marks on threads.

The wonders of technology. Sometimes they screw us up.

 

[Flying Crane]

If you're a black belt in Karate or TKD, and you can't break a board or capable of doing competent-looking kata, then your instruction was seriously lacking.

The same would apply to a Judo, Bjj, or Sambo black belt who couldn't utilize proper throws, chokes, takedowns, or leg locks. However, I don't honestly see that ever occurring since those arts emphasize a high level of hard sparring. There's simply no way you're advancing through the ranks in Bjj for example if you can't do the basics.



the techniques are fine. It's the people doing the technique that's the problem, along with MA teachers simply not caring about the proficiency of their students.

Btw, here's part 2;

Sooooo... You show us a couple clips of poor examples...do you think we all don't know that there are plenty of crap martial artists out there? Hardly earth-shattering. Gotta ask: how does this affect the fact that the young woman successfully defended herself?

 

[Hanzou]

But I can see endless accounts of high level bjj people failing to apply a technique when they roll. In competition only one person can win, so someone had to fail.

I don't think it's possible for any person to run at 100% 100% of the time. We are human after all.

A poor comparison, since there's a difference between competition and demonstration. There's also a difference between a living, breathing person of equal skill, and a board held up at the proper angle for you to hit it.

For example, I have no issue with this;

Saying that those people in the pervious videos are equivalent to the people in the video above is pretty silly (and fairly insulting).

 

[Hanzou]

Sooooo... You show us a couple clips of poor examples...do you think we all don't know that there are plenty of crap martial artists out there? Hardly earth-shattering.

But no less unfortunate.

Gotta ask: how does this affect the fact that the young woman successfully defended herself?

There are martial arts out there that lull people into a false sense of security.

The girl in the OP successfully defended herself by screaming loud enough for a third party to come to her rescue. Fortunately for her, someone was nearby that heard her cries for help. Perhaps if she knew a choke she wouldn't have had to depend on the assistance of someone else? Maybe a triangle choke?

Something to think about......

 

[jezr74]

A poor comparison, since there's a difference between competition and demonstration. There's also a difference between a living, breathing person of equal skill, and a board held up at the proper angle for you to hit it.

For example, I have no issue with this;

Saying that those people in the pervious videos are equivalent to the people in the video above is pretty silly (and fairly insulting).

Wait. Your comparing them not me.

I am just trying to establish an understanding the comparison you use.

 

[Hanzou]

Wait. Your comparing them not me.

I am just trying to establish an understanding the comparison you use.

Well no. Using your argument, those people in the Sabaki challenge are doing the same thing as those poorly skilled martial artists in the videos I posted, because their techniques are "failing".

See how silly that is? Like I said, you were using a very poor comparison.

The only way you're going to be able to make a good comparison, is to find a Bjj blackbelt who can't perform basic techniques at a competent level in a demonstration format.

Good luck with that.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

The girl in the OP successfully defended herself by screaming loud enough for a third party to come to her rescue. Fortunately for her, someone was nearby that heard her cries for help. Perhaps if she knew a choke she wouldn't have had to depend on the assistance of someone else? Maybe a triangle choke?

Something to think about......

If we look at the following clip, just screaming won't help in this situation. "Environment awareness" won't help either.

Since she has to deal with 2 opponents, one has a knife, the ground game skill may not help either. So what kind of MA skill should this girl have?

IMO, she will need "quick finish move" that can "knock out" or "take down" one person ASAP. so she can concentrate on dealing with the other and use "triangle choke" as you have suggested. In order to do so,

- a fast powerful knock out punch or kick,
- a powerful throw that can make her opponent to hurt badly during falling,
- has weapon knowledge and be able to use whatever that she can find around her,
- ...

will be nice to have.

 

[jezr74]

I'm not actually arguing, I don't really have a dog in this fight, but I want to understand the basis of your view on these things. So you must have an idea on what you class a success and a failure in a grappling art and a striking art. I'm trying to understand what it is you see when your watching these clips you search for.

What is the equivalent of a strike in grappling? Is the goal of a strike to connect or something else (Knock out?)? Whats the standard goal of a grapple technique (to submit?) or to hold the position or something else?

Or are they non comparable? I personally think comparing apples to oranges is whats actually silly.

Lets leave ranking system out of it, since no one place is the same and doesn't mean anything outside of a club.

 

[Flying Crane]

But no less unfortunate.



There are martial arts out there that lull people into a false sense of security.

The girl in the OP successfully defended herself by screaming loud enough for a third party to come to her rescue. Fortunately for her, someone was nearby that heard her cries for help. Perhaps if she knew a choke she wouldn't have had to depend on the assistance of someone else? Maybe a triangle choke?

Something to think about......

I see you continue with your creative interpretation of what happened. Not surprising, it is your way.

So let me get this straight: you believe that if she had trained bjj then she would have stuck around to "win" the match by choking him out. And if some third party came by and offered to help, she would have declined the offer, 'cause, ya know, she was happy choking him out...

Do you really believe this fantasy?

And, those clips you posted, do you believe the young woman trained at one of those schools? 'Cause I really don't see the relevance.

 

[Flying Crane]

I knew a guy who ran a judo school. He told me about someone from a different school who visited his school. The visitor was a judo brown belt. My friend allowed him to take part in his class. My friend threw him to the mat. The guy was injured, completely surprised. Told my friend, his instructors never had them practice falling, never had them actually practice throws on each other. And he was a brown belt.

So yeah, it happens.

Anyway, Hanzou, what are you trying to accomplish? Convince us all to quit what we do and go do bjj instead? Just because you say we should? Seriously, what is it you are trying to accomplish?

 

[Flying Crane]

If we look at the following clip, just screaming won't help in this situation. "Environment awareness" won't help either.

Since she has to deal with 2 opponents, one has a knife, the ground game skill may not help either. So what kind of MA skill should this girl have?

IMO, she will need "quick finish move" that can "knock out" or "take down" one person ASAP. so she can concentrate on dealing with the other and use "triangle choke" as you have suggested. In order to do so,

- a fast powerful knock out punch or kick,
- a powerful throw that can make her opponent to hurt badly during falling,
- has weapon knowledge and be able to use whatever that she can find around her,
- ...

will be nice to have.

You post a clip from an actual movie, a fantasy story, and you want us to take you seriously?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

You post a clip from an actual movie, a fantasy story, and you want us to take you seriously?

It was a true story and did happened.

 

[drop bear]

You post a clip from an actual movie, a fantasy story, and you want us to take you seriously?

They are called combat scenarios.

 

[Flying Crane]

It was a true story and did happened.

Even if that is true, a movie depiction is never exactly true. So you want us to watch a movie depiction and then discuss as if it was accurate?

 

[Flying Crane]

They are called combat scenarios.

Um...yeah, that a screenwriter came up with and actors acted with choreography. Sorry if I can't give that any credibility for discussion.

 

[Hanzou]

I'm not actually arguing, I don't really have a dog in this fight, but I want to understand the basis of your view on these things. So you must have an idea on what you class a success and a failure in a grappling art and a striking art. I'm trying to understand what it is you see when your watching these clips you search for.

What is the equivalent of a strike in grappling? Is the goal of a strike to connect or something else (Knock out?)? Whats the standard goal of a grapple technique (to submit?) or to hold the position or something else?

Or are they non comparable? I personally think comparing apples to oranges is whats actually silly.

Lets leave ranking system out of it, since no one place is the same and doesn't mean anything outside of a club.

Well, here's an example of grappling fails;

We can compare technique to technique here. These techniques fail because they contain fundamental flaws which make them unworkable. There are sound ways to pass the guard, or counter the guard with a leglock, and neither of those examples above accomplish that goal.

Usually, you encounter grappling fails in arts attempting to counter wrestling or Bjj. The standard of Grappling arts tend to have a higher standard than your typical Kung fu, karate, or TKD school.

This is why discussing rank is important. A practitioner on the skill level of that woman in the first vid MA fails vid would be allowed to teach in a karate or TKD school. A person of that skill level would never make it out of white belt range in a Bjj school.

It's also important because there are millions of practitioners such as those shown in those vids who have a false level of security because they received a fraudulent black belt.

 

[Hanzou]

I see you continue with your creative interpretation of what happened. Not surprising, it is your way.

So let me get this straight: you believe that if she had trained bjj then she would have stuck around to "win" the match by choking him out. And if some third party came by and offered to help, she would have declined the offer, 'cause, ya know, she was happy choking him out...

Do you really believe this fantasy?

I believe that if this girl had spent 15 years training in Bjj instead of karate, she would have dispatched with her assailant long before any assistance would have been necessary.

There's also nothing "creative" about my statements in regards to the incident. The article in the OP backs up everything I'm saying here.

And, those clips you posted, do you believe the young woman trained at one of those schools? 'Cause I really don't see the relevance.

You should pay attention to the flow of the discussion. That clip was mainly directed at Drose, since he told me to stick with grappling instead of striking. However, it does apply to the thread, since there are several women with black belts in certain styles who can't fight their way out of a paper bag.

 

[Flying Crane]

I believe that if this girl had spent 15 years training in Bjj instead of karate, she would have dispatched with her assailant long before any assistance would have been necessary.

There's also nothing "creative" about my statements in regards to the incident. The article in the OP backs up everything I'm saying here.



You should pay attention to the flow of the discussion. That clip was mainly directed at Drose, since he told me to stick with grappling instead of striking. However, it does apply to the thread, since there are several women with black belts in certain styles who can't fight their way out of a paper bag.

And yet none of this has anything to do with your thread because these statements have nothing to do with the young woman in question. She successfully defended herself. That is the end of the story.

Whether or not there are other black belts who cannot, is immaterial to this young woman. You keep hoisting her up as an example of failure. But she is not. She is an example of success, regardless of what method she trains.

If you cannot see that, then you are blind. That you continually define her as a failure tells me you are ignorant, or a liar. My judgement tells me you are both.