Intercessory Prayer

[Gyakuto]

There are calls for sincere prayers for a certain famous spiritual leader who is currently very ill. For his sake, I would strongly suggest you do not comply. This explains the reasons-

Study of the Therapeutic Effects of Intercessory Prayer (STEP) in cardiac bypass patients: a multicenter randomized trial of uncertainty and certainty of receiving intercessory prayer - PubMed

Intercessory prayer itself had no effect on complication-free recovery from CABG, but certainty of receiving intercessory prayer was associated with a higher incidence of complications.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Anyone seen the excellent ‘Conclave’?

 

[Prince_Alarming]

You know, there's a whole cause and effect problem here that you're just not seeing

 

[Gyakuto]

You know, there's a whole cause and effect problem here that you're just not seeing

…elaborate…

 

[Prince_Alarming]

Well, maybe people are being prayed for because they are more gravely ill and more likely to suffer complications, rather than the other way around?

 

[Prince_Alarming]

Also, your argument kind of pulls the rug from under your own feet. You, I presume, would contend that supernatural assistance is not involved, and the only way cause and effect can be the other way around is if it is.

 

[Gyakuto]

Well, maybe people are being prayed for because they are more gravely ill and more likely to suffer complications, rather than the other way around?

You haven’t read the whole paper…

 

[Prince_Alarming]

No, I haven't. Empirical rationalism is of limited use when trying to understand the mysteries of religion, and I have better things to do with my time.

 

[Gyakuto]

No, I haven't.

You’ve commented on something you haven’t bothered reading?

Empirical rationalism is of limited use when trying to understand the mysteries of religion, and I have better things to do with my time.

“…you can’t understand because you don’t believe.” “… my ki/chi magic doesn’t work in the lab in front of skeptics.”It’s a get out clause used all too often when there is a weak counter argument.

 

[Prince_Alarming]

You’ve commented on something you haven’t bothered reading?

That's right. It's possible to form a judgement simply on what you say about it in your post, and I cannot be arsed with what promises to be some very dull reading.

“…you can’t understand because you don’t believe.” “… my ki/chi magic doesn’t work in the lab in front of skeptics.”It’s a get out clause used all too often when there is a weak counter argument.

To be honest, I'm not sure it's even worth replying. One cannot argue about deeply held beliefs like your absolute faith in your own intellect. At a certain point there are no further arguments to be made, and you haven't addressed the one about your position undermining itself.

 

[Prince_Alarming]

Oh, and the reverse is the case. It's not that you don't understand because you don't believe, you don't believe because you don't understand.

 

[Gyakuto]

To be honest, I'm not sure it's even worth replying. One cannot argue about deeply held beliefs like your absolute faith in your own faith. At a certain point there are no further arguments to be made, and you haven't addressed the one about your position undermining itself.