An open letter to those protesting the war in Iraq:

[Kirk]

Originally posted by nightingale8472
um... civil disobedience is just that... civil (think sit-ins and marches here and Martin Luther King Jr) violent disobedience is the complete opposite (think Los Angeles Rodney King Verdict Riots). No such thing as violent civil disobedience. its oxymoronic.

But still, thank you for taking the time from your busy schedule
to educate me.

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by nightingale8472
violent disobedience is the complete opposite (think Los Angeles Rodney King Verdict Riots). No such thing as violent civil disobedience. its oxymoronic.

A riot of that sort is so spontaneous and unorganized that I'm not sure that I agree that it qualifies. As to the term being oxymoronic, I cannot agree. As Kirk points out, the principal and I suspect in this case guiding meaning of civil is relating to citizenry--and in this case the laws that affect them as citizens of a particular govt. I can think of many examples of what I'd call violent civil disobedience--the Koresh cult comes to mind, the Vietnam War era bombing at UW-Madison, the Oklahoma City bombing,and others. These people were protesting govt. policies--in violent ways.

Frankly, the events leading up to the American Revolutionary War must be considered acts of civil disobedience to the ruling govt., and some of those acts were violent; and what we called a war, they thought of, at first at least, as an uprising of their citizenry. Luckily, the victors write the history books!

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by arnisador
A riot of that sort is so spontaneous and unorganized that I'm not sure that I agree that it qualifies. As to the term being oxymoronic, I cannot agree. As Kirk points out, the principal and I suspect in this case guiding meaning of civil is relating to citizenry--and in this case the laws that affect them as citizens of a particular govt. I can think of many examples of what I'd call violent civil disobedience--the Koresh cult comes to mind, the Vietnam War era bombing at UW-Madison, the Oklahoma City bombing,and others. These people were protesting govt. policies--in violent ways.

That's how I figured you meant it .. glad I interpreted right for
once

Originally posted by arnisador
Frankly, the events leading up to the American Revolutionary War must be considered acts of civil disobedience to the ruling govt., and some of those acts were violent; and what we called a war, they thought of, at first at least, as an uprising of their citizenry. Luckily, the victors write the history books!

Very, very good point.

Being so close to Mexico, thier history books are readily available.
Reading thier version of things (especially the U.S. - Mexico war)
is real interesting.

 

[Johnathan Napalm]

Originally posted by rmcrobertson
.....I repeat: these sites have a lot of financial advice, a lot of gaming, a lot of "alternative history," stuff like Harry Turtledove's. Nothing wrong with that--but I'm dubious about their use as sources of historical fact.

Of course, I could easily be wrong. Could you show me where I am? Just illustrate, and leave off the insults?....

I repeat: you don't know what the hell you are talking about.

Just read the content of the sites. Please don't ask me to do for you what you can do yourself.

 

[Elfan]

civil disobedience
n.
Refusal to obey civil laws in an effort to induce change in governmental policy or legislation, characterized by the use of passive resistance or other nonviolent means.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

 

[chufeng]

Has this thread gone WAY off topic, or what???

chufeng

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by Kirk
Being so close to Mexico, thier history books are readily available.
Reading thier version of things (especially the U.S. - Mexico war)
is real interesting.

I intend to do something like this sometime, just for the experience. I have a (translated) copy of a Chinese book on Tibetan history for example.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Originally posted by chufeng
Has this thread gone WAY off topic, or what???

chufeng

Yes.

I started this as an attempt to show support for the troops. We've long since past that point and are now debating foriegn policy and protests past. Part of the blame for the side trip must be mine as I didn't nudge it when I had the chance.

I've locked this thread. Feel free to pick up the tangents in new threads.

Thanks.

:asian: