If BJJ is so effective, why isn't everybody doing it?

[Dirty Dog]

Because acro is hard.

It's also pretty much completely irrelevant to what forms are used to teach.

 

[drop bear]

It's also pretty much completely irrelevant to what forms are used to teach.

Not if you understand forms.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Is this kata any good?

A good form has to be fast, smooth, powerful, and most important with "flavor".

 

[drop bear]

A good form has to be fast, smooth, powerful, and most important with "flavor".

So although kata is not "martial arts dancing" it is judged exactly like dancing.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

So although kata is not "martial arts dancing" it is judged exactly like dancing.

A good dancer needs to have flavor. A good form guy also needs to have flavor. You can do a good form with speed and power. But without flavor, it still can not be called as art.

 

[Anarax]

The point you seem to be overlooking though is that some sorts of physical activity is just more difficult physically than others. No matter how briskly you walk, it won't be as hard as climbing a cliff, and no matter how briskly you punch and kick the air and pads, or wave your arms around from various stances, it won't be as hard as wrestling a man that is resisting you.

That's not exactly comparing apples to apples though. Sparring a well trained striker is/can be exhausting. Staying on your guard, utilizing dynamic footwork, punching/kicking isn't a walk in the park. Getting nailed with a solid strike and enduring the pain to push forward is also a mental exercise as well as a physical one.

Striking pads can be very exhausting when you have someone holding them who knows what they're doing. It's much more exhausting when you have a pad holder that knows how to establish a tempo, throw punches to be countered, moves to force you to use footwork, etc.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I'm not exaggerating at all. Most people CAN NOT roll hard for three minutes straight. Going full strength on strength against someone roughly your same size for three straight minutes will be the most physically taxing thing you can do if you aren't used to it.

I've seen hundreds of TMA black belts that look like they'd have trouble walking a block to the corner store, or identifying their own penis. In bjj (or any competitive style that REQUIRES fitness), you don't see a lot of that.

Have you seen those same people work hard for 3 hours straight at kata?

Yes, you were exaggerating.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

"Rolling hard" or "full strength" was not mentioned in your initial comment. It was simply a blanket "rolling is harder than kata".

If you walk your kata and just go through the motions, then sure, it's way easier than hard rolling, no contest.

But if you gently roll and tap at every opportunity - well that's a lot easier compared to really working a kata.

This was my point. Kata can be done vigorously. Even with my simple kata, I can break a sweat in 10 minutes. Probably about the same effort as technical rolling. Of course, it's entirely true that rolling hard (or sparring hard, or wrestling hard, etc.) is more demanding than any of the kata I've experienced. I can do kata hard (lots of intent, speed, etc.) for much longer than I can roll/spar/grapple at full capacity. But not for hours straight.

 

[Martial D]

That's not exactly comparing apples to apples though. Sparring a well trained striker is/can be exhausting. Staying on your guard, utilizing dynamic footwork, punching/kicking isn't a walk in the park. Getting nailed with a solid strike and enduring the pain to push forward is also a mental exercise as well as a physical one.

Striking pads can be very exhausting when you have someone holding them who knows what they're doing. It's much more exhausting when you have a pad holder that knows how to establish a tempo, throw punches to be countered, moves to force you to use footwork, etc.

I can't disagree with any of that. Some of the guys I train with are pros and ex pros, we do lots of sparring and pad work. Striking is definitely my strongest game, and striking based training can get exhausting too.

I maintain that rolling is a whole set of levels above that insofar as physicality is concerned though. Anyone that has done BJJ or wrestling at all will say the same.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I maintain that rolling is a whole set of levels above that insofar as physicality is concerned though. Anyone that has done BJJ or wrestling at all will say the same.

On the wrestling mat, you don't have to worry about your opponent's fist breaks your nose. You don't get the "shirt catch on fire" feeling. It's much more relax to be on the wrestling mat than in the boxing ring.

 

[drop bear]

On the wrestling mat, you don't have to worry about your opponent's fist breaks your nose. You don't get the "shirt catch on fire" feeling. It's much more relax to be on the wrestling mat than in the boxing ring.

I know guys who could cripple you wrestling.

 

[Anarax]

I maintain that rolling is a whole set of levels above that insofar as physicality is concerned though. Anyone that has done BJJ or wrestling at all will say the same.

Could you expand on this a bit? I think I know what you mean, but I want to be sure before responding.

 

[JR 137]

On the wrestling mat, you don't have to worry about your opponent's fist breaks your nose. You don't get the "shirt catch on fire" feeling. It's much more relax to be on the wrestling mat than in the boxing ring.

It’s much more relaxing to be in the boxing ring where all they’re doing is trying to punch you with a fist rather than hit you with the entire planet (actually Judo line, but still applicable) and not squeeze the life out of you or bend you like a pretzel.

Truth is, they both suck in their own special ways when you’re the one being beaten up on. And they’re both the best ever when you’re the guy that is able to do whatever you want to your opponent. Neither one is relaxing when you’re getting your a$$ kicked. Wrestling Aleksandr Karelin wouldn’t be any more relaxing than boxing Mike Tyson.

 

[Anarax]

I know guys who could cripple you wrestling.

BJJ is much easier to practice at 100% then striking arts. I've studied BJJ for two years and various full-contact striking. Hard rolling in BJJ is much easier to control than a hard striking sparring session. Many injuries can arise from hard striking sessions for you can't simply tap before the injury takes place. The executed techniques(strikes) and injury happen nearly simultaneously.

 

[Flying Crane]

A good form has to be fast, smooth, powerful, and most important with "flavor".

That film was slightly sped up.

 

[Steve]

Sigh. Do we really need to go into this?

totally agree, but then you say something like this:

Any system can help you gain effective skills.

which is just silly.

 

[drop bear]

BJJ is much easier to practice at 100% then striking arts. I've studied BJJ for two years and various full-contact striking. Hard rolling in BJJ is much easier to control than a hard striking sparring session. Many injuries can arise from hard striking sessions for you can't simply tap before the injury takes place. The executed techniques(strikes) and injury happen nearly simultaneously.

Until you get your neck cranked or something horrible.

 

[marques]

I just had an argument with someone who said that his 30 minutes "tree hugging" is harder than my 3 miles running.

It is. End of discussion.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Sigh. Do we really need to go into this?

It appears so.

 

[drop bear]

totally agree, but then you say something like this:
which is just silly.

Yeah. Does my head in.