What do u think are the most effective styles/techniques out there for the average man?

[Steve]

I think the bold and underlined is the best possible answer. Styles survive because there are practitioners who learn them correctly and make them work for that practitioner

I disagree. Some styles actively inhibit skill development. If you're training at a school with solid instructional design and coaching methods, you will learn skills and develop expertise.

Said another way, if it takes a remarkable martial artist to make your style work, you're probably in a crappy school.

 

[K-man]

Do you think civi krav maga is like mc dojo karate? How do you learn the good stuff?

I'm a bit slow so you might have to explain the difference between civilian Krav and military Krav to me. I mean the ex-commando who was instructing at the weekend was pretty full on and my Krav classes aren't anything like McDojo. You learn good stuff from good instructors. You test it in stressful situations.

I've experienced McDojo karate first hand. It took me a while to realise what I had gotten into. Back then we thought people were all honourable. We had an unqualified instructor wearing a black belt for a start. I think you need to understand what a McDojo is before you start labelling Krav schools McDojos.

When you started this thread I suggested the closest thing to what you asked about, in my opinion, was Krav. Why would I have suggested that if I thought it was McDojo? Dylan9d has obviously had a bad experience to have made the comment he did. Perhaps you might be better served asking him of his experience. I mean I only teach the stuff.
:asian:

 

[Dylan9d]

I'm a bit slow so you might have to explain the difference between civilian Krav and military Krav to me. I mean the ex-commando who was instructing at the weekend was pretty full on and my Krav classes aren't anything like McDojo. You learn good stuff from good instructors. You test it in stressful situations.

I've experienced McDojo karate first hand. It took me a while to realise what I had gotten into. Back then we thought people were all honourable. We had an unqualified instructor wearing a black belt for a start. I think you need to understand what a McDojo is before you start labelling Krav schools McDojos.

When you started this thread I suggested the closest thing to what you asked about, in my opinion, was Krav. Why would I have suggested that if I thought it was McDojo? Dylan9d has obviously had a bad experience to have made the comment he did. Perhaps you might be better served asking him of his experience. I mean I only teach the stuff.
:asian:

Another question about your Krav Maga: are you affiliated to one of the bigger organisations like KMG, IKMF or KMWW, or maybe even John Whitman?

Btw i never said my instructor was bad, Krav Maga is nice for people with no martial arts experience, to learn something quickly. For the practitioner that is involved 10+ years in martial arts i dont think it can add something usefull. I think for those people there are way more usefull things to learn in other martial arts rather than the "novice" stuff that Krav instructors are teaching.

 

[Towel Snapper]

I'm a bit slow so you might have to explain the difference between civilian Krav and military Krav to me. I mean the ex-commando who was instructing at the weekend was pretty full on and my Krav classes aren't anything like McDojo. You learn good stuff from good instructors. You test it in stressful situations.

I've experienced McDojo karate first hand. It took me a while to realise what I had gotten into. Back then we thought people were all honourable. We had an unqualified instructor wearing a black belt for a start. I think you need to understand what a McDojo is before you start labelling Krav schools McDojos.

When you started this thread I suggested the closest thing to what you asked about, in my opinion, was Krav. Why would I have suggested that if I thought it was McDojo? Dylan9d has obviously had a bad experience to have made the comment he did. Perhaps you might be better served asking him of his experience. I mean I only teach the stuff.
:asian:

Do you teach spinning heel kicks in your Krav Maga?

Jumping crescent kicks?

Or eye gouges?

Apparently the civi krav maga is often watered down with less effective techniques.

 

[K-man]

Do you teach spinning heel kicks in your Krav Maga?

Jumping crescent kicks?

Or eye gouges?

Apparently the civi krav maga is often watered down with less effective techniques.

I don't teach jumping kicks in anything, or spinning kicks either for that matter. Eye gouges are part of every RBSD course. What do you think Krav is? Who told you it is often watered down? I think it is the most effective fighting system available, along side things like Silat, Combatives and some of the FMAs.
:asian:

 

[Towel Snapper]

I don't teach jumping kicks in anything, or spinning kicks either for that matter. Eye gouges are part of every RBSD course. What do you think Krav is? Who told you it is often watered down? I think it is the most effective fighting system available, along side things like Silat, Combatives and some of the FMAs.
:asian:

Ok thats a new perspective Ive never heard before everyone else on the net forums etc tells me most civi schools are watered down.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

What do u think are the most effective styles/techniques out there for the average man?

WWII Combatives or S.P.E.A.R.

 

[Buka]

There's a whole lot of great schools everywhere. Hopefully, there's one near enough to where someone lives that they can realistically get there on a regular basis.

I'm primarily a stand up fighter, it's what I love and what I do. But for the last twenty years when someone asks me about where they should train - I suggest a BJJ school. Especially a Gracie school if available. Why do I say that? Just my opinion. We all got opinions, that's just mine.

 

[Cirdan]

After all most styles are just a syllabus or list of techniques to learn, each style has a different list and each technique has a different degree of effectiveness.

In that case go with Punch-Do, Kick-Jutsu and Violence-Fu.

Anyway boxing is great if you want to get functional skills and fast.

 

[Chris Parker]

Not to answer for the OP, but I believe that "effective" is the development of fighting ability, pure and simple. IMO, that's what separates legitimate styles/schools from fraudulent styles/schools.

Well, the OP hasn't answered… but I thought I'd question this answer of yours.

If "effective" is "the development of fighting ability", the question has to be in what context? Fighting ain't just fighting… having a match in a cage isn't really the same as dealing with an assault in real life… nor is it the same as working a door.

And, for the record, no, that's not what "separates legitimate styles/schools from fraudulent ones"… at all. There are plenty of "legit" styles that don't really focus on, or have much interest in, anything you would recognise as "fighting skill"… or even "fighting"… that does't make them fraudulent… it means they have a different focus. And really, just because it's not your preferred focus doesn't mean a damn thing with regards to legitimacy.

 

[oftheherd1]

I disagree. Some styles actively inhibit skill development. If you're training at a school with solid instructional design and coaching methods, you will learn skills and develop expertise.

Said another way, if it takes a remarkable martial artist to make your style work, you're probably in a crappy school.

I never knew that. Can you tell me which styles actively inhibit skill development? Do you know why they would?

I would have thought that a school would make becoming a remarkable martial artist and making their style work, go hand in hand.

 

[Dylan9d]

I don't teach jumping kicks in anything, or spinning kicks either for that matter. Eye gouges are part of every RBSD course. What do you think Krav is? Who told you it is often watered down? I think it is the most effective fighting system available, along side things like Silat, Combatives and some of the FMAs.
:asian:

Maybe it's not watered down, but it is HIGHLY commercialised.

Krav Maga organisations are like businesses, it's all about making money. You have that in other martial arts as well but not how it is in Krav Maga. I trained for a year with IKMF and another 6 months with KMG. Both organisations try to milk their students, same goes for KMWW.

All those organisations try to push out as many instructors as possible in the shortest amount of time wich will affect the quality of lessons, i was lucky to get instruction from a guy that practiced Krav for about 6 years.

Most programs for Krav Maga are 180hr instructorprograms and cost about 4000 euro's.
I did Silat/Pukulan for 9 years, after 8 years my teacher said, ok now you are good enough to teach, i could defend myself very good but he didn't felt that i was ready to instruct people. I trained 5x a week for 3 hours (mostly private with my teachers son). Those 9 years costed me a couple packs of smokes, a case of beer and some gas for driving my teacher around.

My point is: Krav Maga is more business than selfdefense.

 

[Hanzou]

Well, the OP hasn't answered… but I thought I'd question this answer of yours.

If "effective" is "the development of fighting ability", the question has to be in what context? Fighting ain't just fighting… having a match in a cage isn't really the same as dealing with an assault in real life… nor is it the same as working a door.

And, for the record, no, that's not what "separates legitimate styles/schools from fraudulent ones"… at all. There are plenty of "legit" styles that don't really focus on, or have much interest in, anything you would recognise as "fighting skill"… or even "fighting"… that does't make them fraudulent… it means they have a different focus. And really, just because it's not your preferred focus doesn't mean a damn thing with regards to legitimacy.

Actually fighting is just fighting. A person who has natural fighting ability tends to be a superior martial artist to someone who isn't a natural fighter.

And let's stop the nonsense. The reason these "arts" exist in the first place is because a bunch of trained killers butchered numerous people on the battlefield and people were in awe of their prowess. They then either chose or were forced to teach their abilities to other people. The martial arts revolve around war and conflict, and the majority of them were created for war and conflict. The reason you have arts retreating to a non fighting focus these days is to make up for their deficiency in fighting skill.

Which is fine, but now those styles are more spiritual pursuits,or historical/cultural pursuits, than actual martial arts. Sort of like Yoga, painting, or learning a new language. Nothing wrong with that..... unless you're trying to defend yourself of course.

 

[Chris Parker]

Actually fighting is just fighting. A person who has natural fighting ability tends to be a superior martial artist to someone who isn't a natural fighter.

Seriously? You still want to stick to your frankly desperately limited understanding, and argue this? Really? Okay...

No, son, fighting isn't "just fighting". Don't believe me? Try your BJJ tactics and MMA cage-fight ability in a ranged fire-fight. Go on. I'll wait.

And let's stop the nonsense.

Right...

The reason these "arts" exist in the first place is because a bunch of trained killers butchered numerous people on the battlefield and people were in awe of their prowess. They then either chose or were forced to teach their abilities to other people. The martial arts revolve around war and conflict, and the majority of them were created for war and conflict. The reason you have arts retreating to a non fighting focus these days is to make up for their deficiency in fighting skill.

And where, exactly, are you getting that lunacy from? I don't think there's really anything in that whole section that's reflected in reality…

Which is fine, but now those styles are more spiritual pursuits,or historical/cultural pursuits, than actual martial arts. Sort of like Yoga, painting, or learning a new language. Nothing wrong with that..... unless you're trying to defend yourself of course.

Yeah… look, to be blunt, you don't have a clue what you're talking about here, Horatio…

 

[Hanzou]

Seriously? You still want to stick to your frankly desperately limited understanding, and argue this? Really? Okay...

No, son, fighting isn't "just fighting". Don't believe me? Try your BJJ tactics and MMA cage-fight ability in a ranged fire-fight. Go on. I'll wait.

Since when is shooting someone fighting someone?

And where, exactly, are you getting that lunacy from? I don't think there's really anything in that whole section that's reflected in reality…

So all of those Samurai arts didn't really come from the Samurai?

Yeah… look, to be blunt, you don't have a clue what you're talking about here, Horatio…

Right....

 

[Xue Sheng]

So all of those Samurai arts didn't really come from the Samurai?

Well there are the arts that came from Samurai.... and there are arts that did not and as a matter of fact the majority of them did not come from Samurai

Now if you are specifically talking about the arts from Japan then many of them did.... but there are arts that are from many other countries that do not come form Japan and have nothing to do with Samurai.

So the answer to your question would depend on the scope of that question. Are you only talking about Martial Arts from Japan or all marital arts?

 

[Chris Parker]

That's okay, Xue, I'll tackle it… probably tomorrow… need to head off fairly soon… but, Hanzou, no… you're way off again… or, rather, still. More tomorrow.

 

[Xue Sheng]

That's okay, Xue, I'll tackle it… probably tomorrow… need to head off fairly soon… but, Hanzou, no… you're way off again… or, rather, still. More tomorrow.

I was fairly certain you would. I really have no interest in being part of this beyond some need for historical accuracy, beyond that, its all yours have a good one

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Since when is shooting someone fighting someone?

Weren't you the one who brought the battlefield into this? How do you think most fighting is done on the battlefield these days?

Since when is punching someone fighting someone?
Since when is choking someone fighting someone?
Since when is stabbing someone fighting someone?
Since when is hacking someone with a sword fighting someone?
Since when is shooting someone fighting someone?
Since when is bombing someone fighting someone?

Are you drawing some sort of arbitrary line in the middle there somewhere?

So all of those Samurai arts didn't really come from the Samurai?

You do know that the vast majority of martial arts out there have nothing to do with the Samurai, right?

 

[Hanzou]

Well there are the arts that came from Samurai.... and there are arts that did not and as a matter of fact the majority of them did not come from Samurai

I was using the Samurai arts as an example of arts that come from fighting or battle.

Now if you are specifically talking about the arts from Japan then many of them did.... but there are arts that are from many other countries that do not come form Japan and have nothing to do with Samurai.

I know this.

So the answer to your question would depend on the scope of that question. Are you only talking about Martial Arts from Japan or all marital arts?

In that particular example I was only talking about the Samurai arts from Japan. I'm well aware that other arts did not originate from the samurai, but every martial art came from a warrior culture, military group, or an exceptional fighter.