If BJJ is so effective, why isn't everybody doing it?

[Gerry Seymour]

Rolling for three minutes is more physically taxing than two hours of katas.

That's a bit of an exaggeration. Especially considering some of the kata I've seen. 3 minutes of rolling is certainly more taxing (endurance-wise) than 3 minutes of any kata I've seen.

 

[pdg]

Rolling for three minutes is more physically taxing than two hours of katas.

That statement does little more than highlight the effort that you, personally, are willing to put in.

 

[JR 137]

Yeah coachy coach is messing around with smothering at the moment. And it is just a seriously sucky exercise.

Being on your back with someone all over you is not a feeling most people want to deal with day in and day out. They absolutely should learn to deal with it, but wanting to and should are two very different things.

I haven’t done BJJ, but in this sense, wrestling’s the same thing. It’s a real grind. The day in and day out feeling of someone trying to pin you to the ground and do what they want while you’re fighting it off isn’t very appealing to most people. Hell, I wrestled and coached it for all those years and asked myself if I really wanted that grind again when I was looking to re-start MA. And I loved wrestling. I guess I didn’t miss it enough to start BJJ. I love karate too much.

I’ve been working wrestling as an athletic trainer this season. There were several times I thought “thank god im not out there anymore” when seeing some of the stuff guys were getting put into. Not from a perverse point of view, but from a “that really, really sucks to be in” point of view.

If I want to sharpen up my grappling skills, I’m sure their coach wouldn’t mind me getting on the mat during practice every now and then or even more often. It would give his guys a new look/occasional partner. But I’m good right now And I’ve got to get past this whole disc issue anyway. Just waiting for the shot on the 24th.

 

[Martial D]

That's a bit of an exaggeration. Especially considering some of the kata I've seen. 3 minutes of rolling is certainly more taxing (endurance-wise) than 3 minutes of any kata I've seen.

I'm not exaggerating at all. Most people CAN NOT roll hard for three minutes straight. Going full strength on strength against someone roughly your same size for three straight minutes will be the most physically taxing thing you can do if you aren't used to it.

I've seen hundreds of TMA black belts that look like they'd have trouble walking a block to the corner store, or identifying their own penis. In bjj (or any competitive style that REQUIRES fitness), you don't see a lot of that.

 

[Martial D]

That statement does little more than highlight the effort that you, personally, are willing to put in.

That's hilarious. I go super hard in training.

I'm speaking from experience. I can easily do an hour of hard circut training and drilling(with is 10x more intense than I've ever seen or experienced in any TMA dance class) without gassing, but 2 5 min hard rolling rounds still get me gaspin for that sweet sweet oxygen.

You just don't know until you do it.

 

[JR 137]

I'm not exaggerating at all. Most people CAN NOT roll hard for three minutes straight. Going full strength on strength against someone roughly your same size for three straight minutes will be the most physically taxing thing you can do if you aren't used to it.

I've seen hundreds of TMA black belts that look like they'd have trouble walking a block to the corner store, or identifying their own penis. In bjj (or any competitive style that REQUIRES fitness), you don't see a lot of that.

Playing a 90 minute soccer game was so much easier than a wrestling match. Not even close. Wrestling lasts 6 minutes tops (excluding overtime).

 

[pdg]

'm not exaggerating at all. Most people CAN NOT roll hard for three minutes straight. Going full strength on strength against someone roughly your same size for three straight minutes will be the most physically taxing thing you can do if you aren't used to it.

"Rolling hard" or "full strength" was not mentioned in your initial comment. It was simply a blanket "rolling is harder than kata".

If you walk your kata and just go through the motions, then sure, it's way easier than hard rolling, no contest.

But if you gently roll and tap at every opportunity - well that's a lot easier compared to really working a kata.

 

[pdg]

TMA dance class

Pretentious tit.

 

[Martial D]

"Rolling hard" or "full strength" was not mentioned in your initial comment. It was simply a blanket "rolling is harder than kata".

If you walk your kata and just go through the motions, then sure, it's way easier than hard rolling, no contest.

But if you gently roll and tap at every opportunity - well that's a lot easier compared to really working a kata.

Gently roll? Going hard wasn't explicitly stated?

Holy moly you've never been to the mat before I see.

 

[Martial D]

Pretentious tit.

Now now.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

i dont like being that close to other sweaty guys.

Do you mind to be close to a sweaty girl?

 

[pdg]

Now now.

It's a valid assessment.

You make out that you're so much better and that what you do is so much harder.

Thing is though, you referring to TMA as "dance class" really only has one sensible interpretation - that you don't have the strength of mind or presence of self to take personal responsibility for your own training.

If it's too easy, put more effort in, make it more difficult for yourself.

I can choose to coast a class and barely break a sweat, or I can choose to work at it and leave absolutely knackered. It's the difference between "that'll do" and "that's not good enough".

Being so weak willed that you can't push yourself to choose the latter and need someone else to push you into it isn't the fault of the art, or the class, or the teacher - it's on you.

 

[drop bear]

It's a valid assessment.

You make out that you're so much better and that what you do is so much harder.

Thing is though, you referring to TMA as "dance class" really only has one sensible interpretation - that you don't have the strength of mind or presence of self to take personal responsibility for your own training.

If it's too easy, put more effort in, make it more difficult for yourself.

I can choose to coast a class and barely break a sweat, or I can choose to work at it and leave absolutely knackered. It's the difference between "that'll do" and "that's not good enough".

Being so weak willed that you can't push yourself to choose the latter and need someone else to push you into it isn't the fault of the art, or the class, or the teacher - it's on you.

If the rest of the team don't push you to be better. That is the fault of the art the class and the instructor.

If you wanted to be excellent rather than mediocre you really can't do that sort of rigours training on your own.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Do you mind to be close to a sweaty girl?

Sexist nonsense aside, I will say that for many people, rolling with the opposite sex is an even more uncomfortable issue than rolling with ones own gender. "Oh my ghad! I touched [his|her] [penis|butt|breast], what if they think it was intentional?"
This is further complicated by the fact that there certainly have been cases of coaches sexually abusing students.

We have a pair of teenage sisters in our dojang. I've been working with them for about a decade now. I am very cautious when I work with them on any technique that requires body contact that could possibly be misconstrued. How not?

 

[Buka]

WARNING -

Let's all stay polite here, fellas. It doesn't matter who said what first, let's chill.

 

[Martial D]

It's a valid assessment.

You make out that you're so much better and that what you do is so much harder.

Thing is though, you referring to TMA as "dance class" really only has one sensible interpretation - that you don't have the strength of mind or presence of self to take personal responsibility for your own training.

If it's too easy, put more effort in, make it more difficult for yourself.

I can choose to coast a class and barely break a sweat, or I can choose to work at it and leave absolutely knackered. It's the difference between "that'll do" and "that's not good enough".

Being so weak willed that you can't push yourself to choose the latter and need someone else to push you into it isn't the fault of the art, or the class, or the teacher - it's on you.

No need be get salty. I'm not saying all TMA guys are out of shape shlubs. What I am saying is you can do most kata based tmas as an out of shape shlub. Sure, you can put more into it, but you aren't forced to the way you are in a style where you go head to head.

The point you seem to be overlooking though is that some sorts of physical activity is just more difficult physically than others. No matter how briskly you walk, it won't be as hard as climbing a cliff, and no matter how briskly you punch and kick the air and pads, or wave your arms around from various stances, it won't be as hard as wrestling a man that is resisting you.

 

[drop bear]

No need be get salty. I'm not saying all TMA guys are out of shape shlubs. What I am saying is you can do most kata based tmas as an out of shape shlub. Sure, you can put more into it, but you aren't forced to the way you are in a style where you go head to head.

The point you seem to be overlooking though is that some sorts of physical activity is just more difficult physically than others. No matter how briskly you walk, it won't be as hard as climbing a cliff, and no matter how briskly you punch and kick the air and pads, or wave your arms around from various stances, it won't be as hard as wrestling a man that is resisting you.

And also why kata really should have acrobatics. Because then if you can't do it it becomes pretty obvious.

 

[Dirty Dog]

And also why kata really should have acrobatics. Because then if you can't do it it becomes pretty obvious.

It's already obvious to anyone who understands forms.

 

[drop bear]

It's already obvious to anyone who understands forms.

Because acro is hard.

 

[drop bear]

It's already obvious to anyone who understands forms.

How does anyone understanding of forms trump anyone elses?

Eg. Payless shoes prank. Peoples understanding is pretty easily fooled.

Is this kata any good?