How long to Black Belt?

[arnisador]

Comedian Dennis Miller was on The Tonight Show a few days ago and said that his 12 year old son had just gotten his black belt and that he was very proud of his son.

 

[yilisifu]

There are many variables that have to be considered; physical condition, coordination level, frequency of attending class, previous experience, level of intelligence...

There's no hard and fast rule.

 

[YouAgain]

I have been training in martial arts since I was seven...... im now 14 and I have yet to obtain my BB i'm going to wait until I'm 16 so I can get my proper Shodan instead of just geting the junior BB!

 

[LadyDragon]

From the time I began my MA's training to when I recieved my black belt was just over 5 years. Granted there were times there when I would get sick, so I might miss a week or two from training, but as soon as i could, I was back in the dojo do what I love to do best.

 

[8253]

As long as it takes for the person to be mentally ready to handle this level of responsibility.

 

[Toasty]

I gotta input here...WHAT THE HECK!??
what is all this "it took me 10 years {or more} to get my black belt & i still dont know anything" crap? what are you people doing?
Look at how long all those people (the americans anyway) you look up to in the early (or "golden") years of karate actually trained - i will do the exact research - but most, if not all, got their black belts in under 3 years. Most of them were in the service & were stationed in Okinawa & Korea = limited training time while off duty.
For god's sake, even Jigoro Kano had only studied jujutsu for 5 YEARS when he developed Judo. Thats right, he started in Tenjin-shinyo JuJutsu in 1877 then switched to Kito-ryu JuJutsu in 1879 when his instructor passed away - then "founded" the first Judo dojo in 1882...5 years. Now, granted he did continue studying Kito-ryu as well as other forms of jujutsu while continuing to develop & enhance his Judo.
As for other arts, one of which I have trained in, Wing Chun was specifically designed for a person to be proficient (read - blackbelt level) in 2-3 years at the most.
The Filipino arts are also especially designed to get one to a high level of fighting ability in very short time as well.
All this 10 belts before black belt crap is desiged for one thing only - to seperate you from you $$. Look at all those old guys - they had like 3 belts white, brown & black.
I especially like the "it will take me lifetime to master even the basics" - what the heck does that mean? It didnt even take the FOUNDER of the style a "lifetime" to develop the whole darn system before he/she stared teaching it!!
I had made this point in an earlier post regarding Mr. Joe Lewis - if it only took him 9 months to get his black belt, why in the h - e - double hockey sticks does he think he gets to make his "students" wait 10 years to "award" them their black belt?

anyway, i fully expect to get flamed by all those who have bought into the upteen years to black belt rational...sorry...

I truely wish all of you the very best in your training
Rob

 

[Chicago Green Dragon]

I think when a person puts a time limit on when to get their black belt they are selling themselves short. It depends on the person, their experience, their effort and a whole lot of other things too. Putting a time limit on it or having a get your black belt in 2 years or 3 years program is ridiculous.
It should be when the person progresses up to that level as a whole. If someone is so concerned with getting it in a specified period of time i would recommend going out and buying yourself a black belt and enjoy. But when push comes to shove and one day you will need to use what you know you black belt will make a nice sling for the broken arm you will prob get.
I've seen some people of lesser rank mop the floor with black belts. The funny thing is that people only saw the color and didnt bother to think did this person know something else too. Yes they did a lot more.

I just believe it should happen when it happens not some specified period of time in advance. Some people might make it in 2 years then some might take 3 or 4. Does that make them any less a black belt ? No, it doesnt. Each person learns and works in a different way.

Patience Grasshoper :uhyeah:

Chicago Green Dragon

:asian:

 

[Toasty]

Wow, i just re-read my post...talk about a lot of typos...

Anyway, i forgot to add that i could see it taking someone a lot more time when they only train 2-3 times a week.
When an old friend told me she had been training in the martial arts for a year now, I said "cool, you must be getting pretty good!". And she said she was starting to get the hang of it...I asked her how often she trained and was stunned that she only went 2 times a week (not counting holidays off or missing a class a month here and there for whatever reason as well). She replied back "why, how often do you train?" and she was stunned when I said at least 5 days and often 6 days a week...

anyway
just my opinions...
Rob

 

[8253]

I gotta input here...WHAT THE HECK!??
what is all this "it took me 10 years {or more} to get my black belt & i still dont know anything" crap? what are you people doing?
Look at how long all those people (the americans anyway) you look up to in the early (or "golden") years of karate actually trained - i will do the exact research - but most, if not all, got their black belts in under 3 years. Most of them were in the service & were stationed in Okinawa & Korea = limited training time while off duty.
For god's sake, even Jigoro Kano had only studied jujutsu for 5 YEARS when he developed Judo. Thats right, he started in Tenjin-shinyo JuJutsu in 1877 then switched to Kito-ryu JuJutsu in 1879 when his instructor passed away - then "founded" the first Judo dojo in 1882...5 years. Now, granted he did continue studying Kito-ryu as well as other forms of jujutsu while continuing to develop & enhance his Judo.
As for other arts, one of which I have trained in, Wing Chun was specifically designed for a person to be proficient (read - blackbelt level) in 2-3 years at the most.
The Filipino arts are also especially designed to get one to a high level of fighting ability in very short time as well.
All this 10 belts before black belt crap is desiged for one thing only - to seperate you from you $$. Look at all those old guys - they had like 3 belts white, brown & black.
I especially like the "it will take me lifetime to master even the basics" - what the heck does that mean? It didnt even take the FOUNDER of the style a "lifetime" to develop the whole darn system before he/she stared teaching it!!
I had made this point in an earlier post regarding Mr. Joe Lewis - if it only took him 9 months to get his black belt, why in the h - e - double hockey sticks does he think he gets to make his "students" wait 10 years to "award" them their black belt?

anyway, i fully expect to get flamed by all those who have bought into the upteen years to black belt rational...sorry...

I truely wish all of you the very best in your training
Rob

cool posting

 

[Chicago Green Dragon]

Interesting posting about Mr Lewis

I wonder why too. Esp. if there was someone who really put in the effort or had the extra talent too.

Chicago Green Dragon

 

[Rich Parsons]

I gotta input here...WHAT THE HECK!??
what is all this "it took me 10 years {or more} to get my black belt & i still dont know anything" crap? what are you people doing?
Look at how long all those people (the americans anyway) you look up to in the early (or "golden") years of karate actually trained - i will do the exact research - but most, if not all, got their black belts in under 3 years. Most of them were in the service & were stationed in Okinawa & Korea = limited training time while off duty.
For god's sake, even Jigoro Kano had only studied jujutsu for 5 YEARS when he developed Judo. Thats right, he started in Tenjin-shinyo JuJutsu in 1877 then switched to Kito-ryu JuJutsu in 1879 when his instructor passed away - then "founded" the first Judo dojo in 1882...5 years. Now, granted he did continue studying Kito-ryu as well as other forms of jujutsu while continuing to develop & enhance his Judo.
As for other arts, one of which I have trained in, Wing Chun was specifically designed for a person to be proficient (read - blackbelt level) in 2-3 years at the most.
The Filipino arts are also especially designed to get one to a high level of fighting ability in very short time as well.
All this 10 belts before black belt crap is desiged for one thing only - to seperate you from you $$. Look at all those old guys - they had like 3 belts white, brown & black.
I especially like the "it will take me lifetime to master even the basics" - what the heck does that mean? It didnt even take the FOUNDER of the style a "lifetime" to develop the whole darn system before he/she stared teaching it!!
I had made this point in an earlier post regarding Mr. Joe Lewis - if it only took him 9 months to get his black belt, why in the h - e - double hockey sticks does he think he gets to make his "students" wait 10 years to "award" them their black belt?

anyway, i fully expect to get flamed by all those who have bought into the upteen years to black belt rational...sorry...

I truely wish all of you the very best in your training
Rob

Hey Toasty, :flame:

Just Flaming you

I do not Joe Lewis, yet I can see why people would be forced to wait. They do not have the skill comes to mind first. Yet this would not fit for all. So maybe it is to stretch out the lessons and to keep the money coming in as Rob pointed out? Yes, it is possible.

It should depend on upon growth of the individual and also upon skill and over understanding. Just some thoughts

 

[Black Bear]

My style is Hugo Boss. Billable hourly rate in my business is $120, but to be competitive most of us bill below that. So maybe thirty minutes.

 

[Jason Davis]

It's best not to have belts.

 

[Chicago Green Dragon]

Nah still need them for holding up the pants..........lol


Chicago Green Dragon

:asian:

It's best not to have belts.

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

Averages in my kempo system of origin were 5.5 to 8 years, but with a tip of the hat to the shorter time it took various founders and seniors, it includes black belt cirricula from three seperate systems, incrementally and thematically broken down then re-organized by belts (i.e., belt = chapter in a book about a subject = stuff from each of the 3 systems that addressed that topic). Also depends on how much training time - at the school and on one's own - a person puts into their effort. Fanatics living at the dojo and training at night when they get home will obviously progress faster than hobbyists who show up once a week, and put no home-training time into it.

 

[Chicago Green Dragon]

And how long did it take people who came from other styles with advanced rank in their style to attain a black belt in your organization ?

Did you find that they were able to empty their glass to fill it with your knowledge or were they able to leave it half full and add it to without it being a distraction ?

Chicago Green Dragon

:asian:

Averages in my kempo system of origin were 5.5 to 8 years, but with a tip of the hat to the shorter time it took various founders and seniors, it includes black belt cirricula from three seperate systems, incrementally and thematically broken down then re-organized by belts (i.e., belt = chapter in a book about a subject = stuff from each of the 3 systems that addressed that topic). Also depends on how much training time - at the school and on one's own - a person puts into their effort. Fanatics living at the dojo and training at night when they get home will obviously progress faster than hobbyists who show up once a week, and put no home-training time into it.

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

And how long did it take people who came from other styles with advanced rank in their style to attain a black belt in your organization ?

Did you find that they were able to empty their glass to fill it with your knowledge or were they able to leave it half full and add it to without it being a distraction ?

Chicago Green Dragon

:asian:

Depends on the person. In my own experiences of training with others, I've sometime found previous learning a blockade to incorporation, and sometimes an assistance. Having seen the dichotomy within my own neural junkyard, I let folks joining us walk their own path, at their own pace, towards whatever goal they see fit.

Generally, unless specififed that they want a black belt in my organization, they are encouraged to wear their previous kimono & rank, and just show up and train. Occassionally (and I know this is treason), I even ask them to lead the class and teach us some of their pearls of wisdom.

A strange man entered a tribal village, and gathered the warriors together. He said to them, "tomorrow, you must go into the desert, and gather stones, and place them in your pouch. After the sun goes down, you may look at the stones. At first, you will be glad, but then you will be sad." The next day, the warriors followed the directions of the prophet, and gathered stones in the desert. It was hot, and stones are heavy, so many picked up only small stones, and some picked up only a few. When the sun fell, they opened their pouches, and were amazed to see the stones had turned into diamonds. At first, they were glad, for all were richer from the experience. Then, they were sad, regretting they had not braved the heat and picked up more.

If you only find one pearl at a time, and bend to pick it up though it is small, at the end of your life you'll have a bag of pearls.

Until we meet in that place where we are all one,

Dr. Dave

 

[Chicago Green Dragon]

Dr. Dave

Thank you for answering my post. As for the uniforms and what you allow, I believe that in your school you have your choice of how things work.
I respect your choice to allow people to wear their previous uniforms and rank if they wish. I also like the fact that you allow them to show some of their knowledge from their systems they have studied too.
There is so much out there to learn that we can never learn it all. But, its nice when we can have a sip from someone elses cup.

Chicago Green Dragon

:asian:

Depends on the person. In my own experiences of training with others, I've sometime found previous learning a blockade to incorporation, and sometimes an assistance. Having seen the dichotomy within my own neural junkyard, I let folks joining us walk their own path, at their own pace, towards whatever goal they see fit.

Generally, unless specififed that they want a black belt in my organization, they are encouraged to wear their previous kimono & rank, and just show up and train. Occassionally (and I know this is treason), I even ask them to lead the class and teach us some of their pearls of wisdom.

A strange man entered a tribal village, and gathered the warriors together. He said to them, "tomorrow, you must go into the desert, and gather stones, and place them in your pouch. After the sun goes down, you may look at the stones. At first, you will be glad, but then you will be sad." The next day, the warriors followed the directions of the prophet, and gathered stones in the desert. It was hot, and stones are heavy, so many picked up only small stones, and some picked up only a few. When the sun fell, they opened their pouches, and were amazed to see the stones had turned into diamonds. At first, they were glad, for all were richer from the experience. Then, they were sad, regretting they had not braved the heat and picked up more.

If you only find one pearl at a time, and bend to pick it up though it is small, at the end of your life you'll have a bag of pearls.

Until we meet in that place where we are all one,

Dr. Dave

 

[TigerWoman]

In our Taekwondo school, the average is three and 1/2 years to 5 depending on how much training you put into it. Its easy to pass the first 3 -4 rank tests even with the board breaking but the physical aspect has always been hard. Our Master won Nationals for TKD in sparring but was disqualified because he did not have citizenship at the time. He trains us hard. For my experience, I went to doing 15 precarious split pushups to 50 regular (guy's) pushups for my blackbelt test and that was at the end of the 4 hr. test. I went to 7 classes weekly plus taught/led cardio kickboxing classes twice a week. Those that worked hard in our classes got to test in 3 1/2 yrs.--they were READY for it.
But then I've seen some people stretch it out to never testing for BB just become professional red belts. If you know what the requirements are, you figure out how to get to the goal - but ten years is a little much for 1st Dan.

 

[terryl965]

I agree a student sould advance at there on pace not a timetable,some student just learn kata and one steps and self defense quickly compare to other over the last 35 years I seen so manystudent quit becouse of time tables at there dojo.Ialso agree about the Dan levels they differently should havea time frame with them. God Bless America and your family's as well