How long to Black Belt?

[Aegis]

I think he meant that they have to wait until he thinks they're ready, not themselves, because otherwise they might test and get the grade but not be ready for that grade. Then they could well think themselves better than they are, hence a false sense of superiority.


Was the Blak belt system created by Judo? I thought only coloured belts were.

 

[CHUNNER]

Hello everyone, This is my first post on these boards. May I just start by saying that the opinions expressed here are very open minded and informative. A refreshing change in the traditionally closed minded and bigoted martial arts world.

Now to the point. It took me 10 years to get my first Black Balt in Wado Ryu. It seemed a long time, but looking back on it now I think It was just about right. Being a Black Belt to me anyway represents a certain level of maturity both in your art and life in general. For example I personally do not think that people under the age of 18 can possibly be black belts. They may be technically proficient but to me that's only part of the requirement.

I have been teaching now for 13 years and I have not yet promoted anyone to 1st degree, Not because I want to hold anyone back, On the contrary I am really looking forward to the day I hand over that certificate.

Maybe I just expect to much, Maybe It`s because I took so long to get there. I don't really know.

I think a large part of it is that most of the Black Belts I have come across in Northern Ireland do not impress me very much and I would hate it for anyone to say that about anybody I had graded to Black Belt.

 

[celtic bhoy]

A Wing Chun instructor once told me that gradings are worth nothing, they are just a way of separating you from your money. He could not understand the point of paying a complete stranger at a seminar to grade you when he does'nt even know you. He believes that if gradings are compulsory then your instructor should be the only person entitled to grade you, as he's probably the person who knows you best. The colour of your belt only denotes what you know and not how good you are. To some degree I believe he has a point, what do you think.

 

[Blindside]

Why the hell would you pay a complete stranger to grade you?
I don't understand that at all. I want my instructor to grade me, how can anyone promote me without knowing me and how I move? Even if I was a high ranking head of my own studio type (which I'm not) I would need to study under someone to actually be promoted by them.

And our school doesn't charge for tests, so that isn't an issue.

Lamont

 

[Aegis]

In my style of Jujitsu you have to be graded by an examiner. The instructors of individual clubs are not usually quallified to grade students, and I doubt even the ones who are quallified would do so.

The gradings in our style are about several things:

1) Putting across a good impression of your abilities to someone who does not usually teach you, using someone you don't usually train with as an uke.

2) Performing your martial art under pressure. It's almost unheard of to not make friends with your sensei in my style, and no matter how hard he/she pushes you, you always know that they'll have a laugh with you about it at a later date. The grading sensei does not know you, you don't know him, so he can put more pressure on you.

3) It's a good learning exercise. Gradings are more like a long lesson in this style. My last grading (orange belt) was about 4 hours long in total, and I paid not much more than twice what I'd normally pay for a 2 hour session. I also learned a lot from it, so it's not like I just paid to get my grade, though I would have done that too, allowing me to learn more advanced techniques in preparation for my next grading.


It's all about the pressure!

Plus most club instructors aren't allowed live weapons on the mat without a higher graded instructor present.

 

[Nightingale]

Originally posted by Aegis

I think he meant that they have to wait until he thinks they're ready, not themselves, because otherwise they might test and get the grade but not be ready for that grade. Then they could well think themselves better than they are, hence a false sense of superiority.

I think both the instructor AND the student need to agree that a test should take place. I got pushed into a belt test a few years ago. I didn't feel I was ready. I passed the test, but every time I put on that belt, I still felt like I really shouldn't be wearing it. Looking back now, almost three years later, I still feel that I shouldn't have tested when I did.

 

[fringe_dweller]

I watched our bi-annual bb grading last friday night and of the eight people testing only four passed. Made me value it more seeing people not handed it simply for still being standing on their feet at the end of the grading.
Having seen some people look extremely competent and others not gives me more motivation than ever to learn my techniques/principles on a given level to my fullest ability.
I've been training for two years now and I'm looking at another three before I'm ready to think about that.

 

[Master of Blades]

I'm having my first grading on Monday I hope and we will be graded by the Hapkido teacher. Contrary the Hapkido side of the class will be graded By my Kali teacher. My Kali teacher is a BB in Hapkido and is allowed to grade but he believes that you need someone in a suit behind a table looking at you as if you have failed already just to make you try that little bit harder. My friends TKD class has to go up to Oxford for his grading because none of his teachers are qualified to grade their students. Although Im not sure why.......:shrug:

 

[Cthulhu]

Originally posted by Master of Blades

My friends TKD class has to go up to Oxford for his grading because none of his teachers are qualified to grade their students. Although Im not sure why.......:shrug:

I've seen many clubs like that, where the instructor has enough rank to teach, but not enough rank to test his/her own students.

Personally, I dislike this system. If you're not going to trust an instructor to grade his/her own students, why bother making them an instructor.

Cthulhu

 

[Master of Blades]

I got told it was something to do with money though....I'm not to sure what the whole story is. I'll post it when I find out. I also dislike this system. I enjoy the old Korean way of doing it. Two people sitting behind the desk in suits. One person at the side shouting orders. VERY formal, VERY daunting. I dislike it when its not like this cuz it feels like Im doing a normal class EXCEPT I might possibly be earning another belt at the end of it. And its good to watch others do their gradings and see what you have to live up to.

 

[Posiview]

Seig

Myself, I think I make a pretty good purple belt.

WaterCircleHarmony

My black belt took me about 10 years to get! and i'm still rubbish.

These are very magnanamous and inspiring comments. Very good thread. I've read many threads where it is suggested that aspiring to achieve a black belt is vain, pointless and detracts from the 'true' meaning of martial arts.

I have no reservaytion in stating that I look forward to achieving my black belt, although I have several years of training to go. I think, however, the setting of minimum time that a martial artist should train before being awarded/achieving a black belt can be problematic. I train with people who are at various level of competance - that is, some people are able to undertake techniques much faster than others; in the same way that it might take someone 1, 2, 3 or more years to pass their driving test and others it may take (as it did my brother) a week.

As has been stated by another it should take as long as it takes.

There appears to be a certain ammount of reverse snobbery exists in the arts - where people seem to celebrate the fact that it took them "20 years to get to get black belt". May be that's because they weren't very good!

With regards grading, black belt and other belts, who cares who undertakes the assessment of grading! If your club is a professional and concientious club then it shouldn't matter if a stranger assess you. The assessor should have been deemed competant enought to either award the grading or not awared the grading.

I look forward to grading for my black belt. However, not for the same reasons as when I first started: not for vanity but because I deserved it and I was graded by a competant and professional instructor.

Andy

 

[fissure]

I agree that some people love the fact that it took 20 + yrs to get their BB. I have to admit this seems a little drawn out to me.
There really can be only 2 reasons for handing someone a BB, in my oppinion.
First, they have trained hard for several years (4,5, whatever) and have shown reasonable tech. ability plus an appreciation for "what the MAs really mean" ( whatever that often quoted phrase, my actually mean in your particular style/system).If this is the case, then the BB acts as a kind of rebirth where the individual goes from understanding various degrees of nothing as a novice too being accepted as an interim level trainee. The BB would signify someone who has enough physical and (MA speaking) mental acumen to delve deeper into whatever is being offered.
The second scenario for dishing out BBs is to signify complete and total mastery of a particular art. If this is the case then even 20 yrs seems to short a time. I received my BB 16 yrs ago after 6 1/2 yrs of training (Shotokan + TKD), but to this day I still find small ways to improve upon things I thought I knew a decade ago.
Either way I have found that the goal of getting your BB, then progressing through the DAn system losses it's appeall after a time.I have been a 2nd Dan for about 8 yrs now. I now where I stand - the thought of someone watching me train for a couple hours then passing judgment on what he thinks of my ability holds zero interest for me at this point.I think the most important point is to now why you want a black belt to begin with, and be aware enough to admitt to yourself that those reasons can and probably will change.

 

[rachel]

I agree that the schools should only test a student when the instructor feels he or she is ready. If they test once a month or every 2 months etc and the student is not ready why make them test. I know I'd rather wait however long it took so I knew I'd earned the belt rather than have it handed to me. A belt means nothing without the skill to back it up. Our teacher in Kempo said it's not out of the realm of possibility to have our black belts within 6 years. If it takes that long,fine. I have no problem with that. I just want to make sure I know and know well everything I should know to advance and I won't push for the belt or accept it until I'm ready.

 

[Quick Sand]

In my style of TKD it generally takes around 5 years to get your black belt.

When you pass, they present you with a white belt along with your black belt to signify that you still have a long way to go and a lot to learn.

In terms of testing, I also agree that it should only happen when a student it ready. My class does hold testing once a term but if you don't feel ready for that one or can't make it then arrangements are made for you to test at of the other dojangs in a nearby city.

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by Quick Sand

When you pass, they present you with a white belt along with your black belt to signify that you still have a long way to go and a lot to learn.

That's different--I hadn't heard of that before! Yes, black belt is the true beginner's level.

 

[chufeng]

I gave my Sifu a White Belt when I had to leave (1986)...
He asked what it meant...I said, someday you will have earned it.

He still has it...
He reminds me of it from time to time.
I gave it to him with the best of intention...
I am pleased that, to this day, he still has it...

...and I think both of us have developed a greater appreciation of its significance.

:asian:
chufeng

 

[Shinzu]

i like that story chufeng forever the student.

 

[WhiteTiger]

Belt Color means Nothing!

There are thousands of 10 year old Black Belts that got their rank in 18 months out there, none of whom could fight their way out a wet paper bag.
Lets face it there are black belts that just squeaked by, and there are green blets out there that are tough as nails. The only questions that begin to be valid are how long you have trained, in what art, do you measure your skill against others in competition?

 

[Master of Blades]

Belts may mean nothing to you, but for some people they are a stimulus for getting further in their training, a goal to reach. It really depends on the person. But you have to admit that they are useful on the fact that if you go from club to club then you're teacher can see what you can do from you're belt and not make you do all the newbie stuff until you get back up to wherever you were. And if you're instructor doesnt think you're good enough he can throw you back in with the newbies. They're good for lots of stuff :rofl:

 

[Shinzu]

Originally posted by WhiteTiger

Belt Color means Nothing!

There are thousands of 10 year old Black Belts that got their rank in 18 months out there, none of whom could fight their way out a wet paper bag.
Lets face it there are black belts that just squeaked by, and there are green blets out there that are tough as nails. The only questions that begin to be valid are how long you have trained, in what art, do you measure your skill against others in competition?

first off no 10 year old should be a black belt. if they can't handle the rank then they should not be given it. that would be the instructors fault.

true there are some lower ranked students that are tougher than higher ranked students but the martial arts is not all about strength. knowledge, dedication, determination, skill, humility, respect, and self defense have nothing to do with muscle size.

i also have to agree that belt levels are a good tool for judging students among other things.