How long to Black Belt?

[tonbo]

It took me 10 years to get my Black.

Black Belt tests come around on the average of once a year (if that) at my school, and then only if people are truly ready. For me, it was about two years between the tests......I had taken some time off for medical reasons, and was promoted to third degree brown just before my leave. That test was the last "advanced" test that was scheduled for two, almost three, years. No one was ready for advancement, and we all knew it.

Our school's timeline is something like this: at basic levels (white, yellow, and orange), you can test for a belt every couple of months, if you are ready (average of about 3-4 months between belts). At intermediate levels (purple, blue, and green), you are looking at testing for a belt after about 7-9 months. That's "textbook" or "ideal". Most people do that between purple and blue, then take about a year in blue, and about a year to a year and a half in green. In advanced (brown) ranks, expect to spend at *least* a year in each belt. That's how it tends to work out.

The nice thing is, most people tend to "self-police", and test for rank when they feel they are ready, not just when they want it. You see a lot of people taking a *lot* of time between belts as they get higher up, and most often, they have to be *told* that they are ready to test. Most, myself included, will almost argue with you that "I'm not ready".....even when they are.

That's a nice thing to see, IMHO. Balances out the "gimme my rank" jokers who just want the belt.....

Peace--

 

[shihantae]

I agree on the pole being more flexible.

1) It really depends on the person.
2) some teacher, like myself, will not test a child until the are at least 16. I have tested one at that. They were an exception.
My requirements are they not test until they are 18.

So if you get a child at let's say 12, it would be 6yrs at a min. before they could test.

It is hard to determine in years how long it would take for someone to test for BB. There are a lot of things that must be considered, even on the adult level.

Peace,
Tae

 

[Despairbear]

Agreed, a BB is more than MA skill level. While I do not like the idea of a age limit it would sort of be a heads up, I have meet no people under 18 and damn few above 18 who would meet the "mental and philisphical" (geeze too early for big words) reqs. I would think should be in place for that level of trainig.



Despair Bear

 

[Stickboxer]

My first teacher Adam, whom I used to consider a friend before we went our separate ways, decided to become buddies with a local TKD instructor... for the express purpose of getting the guy to like him. Adam's motivation? He wanted to grease the wheels with the TKD guy so the guy would "slide" Adam a black belt ranking within a few months of light training. Adam was extremely heavy and even had a bad back and a bum leg; worse, he was lazy. But he thought he'd become chums with the TKD instructor and easily earn the high rank, like borrowing $5 from a brother or something.

At the time, I was a student in TKD for about a year, in another city. I worked hard for my rank. And I found this insulting to me.

I told Adam that if the guy did that, I'd expose the guy to any federation I could and get him kicked out, have Adam's rank rescinded, and I'd kick their a**es on top of it.

Adam never understood why I would be upset, other than through jealousy, just because Adam wanted an ungrounded grading handed to him while I earned mine.

For those of you who want to be called black belts, there's two methods of getting one:

1. working hard for years,

2. borrow $5 from your brother and order one out of a catalog.

 

[tshadowchaser]

I really don't care how long it takes a person to get their Black Belt, as long as they EARN it, not buy it.
As for kids I dont think they should be black belts . Maybe we should design a whole new belt, shash, uniform stip,or uniform trim for the kids. Something that shows they have gained experience and knowledge but will not equate to an adults rank. When they reach adult age (16, 18, 21, whatever) they are tested as an adult and given rank as an adult, but no higher than first degree.
Just some ideas.
Shadow:asian:

 

[FLY]

At my school, there is no required time between coloured belts. A person is promoted to the next belt based on their personal abilities and understanding of the curriculum. Not all people learn at the same rate, so why should people who learn quicker than others be held back because of someone who isn't putting in as much effort as the others?
The learning of techs and forms required for promotion are also taught in a private one-on-one lesson with my sensei (including the actual testing itself). Personally, I like it this way because I can advance at my own pace....you get out of it what you put into it.
As far as testing for bb, everyone is required to wait a minimum of three years before even being considered for testing. I also do not have a problem with this because, as far as I'm concerned (even though I don't hold a bb myself....yet ) there is more to it than just going through the motions of techniques.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You may train for a long, ling time, but if you merely move your hands and
feet and jump up and down like a puppet, learning karate is not very
different from learning to dance. You will never have reached the heart of
the matter; you will have failed to grasp the quintessence of karate-do.

- GICHIN FUNAKOSHI
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

:asian:

 

[tonbo]

Ever since I can remember in my training, we were always told the following at our school: "If you just want the Black Belt, they are about $10 from the catalog. We won't sell you one, but we can tell you where to get one. If you want to earn it, you can take it away from the head instructor for free..." whereupon, a description was launched as to just how that would happen: A number of years of blood, sweat, and tears, and then passing your Black Belt test.

Point was, there are "black belts", and there are "Black Belts". I can go buy a $7000 brand new, custom made Japanese katana, but it doesn't make me a samurai. I can buy a Formula One racer, but it doesn't make me a professional racer. On and on and on.

If you just want the belt itself, it is a lot cheaper to buy it than not. However, the problem is, if you *say* you are a Black Belt, and you aren't, you may be called on to prove it. In that case, it is just a matter of time before you are found out. You know, the old "Yeah, you talk the talk....but do you walk the walk?" argument.

I figure that, roughly, my Black has cost me about a thousand times more than the one in the catalog.

Worth every penny, due to the *other* perks (the conditioning, the discipline, the health, the attitude) that came with it...

Peace--

 

[WaterCircleHarmony]

My black belt took me about 10 years to get! and i'm still rubbish.

It was not "particularly" hard work but i certainly have a feel for the art by now. only a feel though! A few basics at least.

i think again that the whole black belt thing is more created originally for a more militaristic view upon things. am i wrong?

Respectfully.

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by WaterCircleHarmony

i think again that the whole black belt thing is more created originally for a more militaristic view upon things. am i wrong?

It was created for judo as a way to (sort of) rank players. It was a sports-oriented thing from the highly regimented Japanese society which tends to classify whatever it can and even things it can't (like numbers).

 

[Seig]

This has been a fascinating thread. All I really am going to say on the subject is that for a long time, my then students considered me the most senior Sho-Dan in the world. When I finally got my Ni-Dan, 10 years and 1 day after I got my original Sho-Dan, actually training that whole time, they called me the world's first second degree grey belt. It had faded that badly. Myself, I think I make a pretty good purple belt.

 

[LanceWildcat1]

In our school, there is a curriculum. As you reach the qualifications and test successfully, you are promoted to the next rank. Hence, there is no set time limit, nor in my opinion should there be one.
:soapbox:

 

[Matt Stone]

It can take as short a time as maybe 3 - 4 years, or you could be like me and take the extended program! I didn't "make the grade" until after 13 years of training! It should have taken much less time, but when I was younger I wasn't so keen on training as hard as I should have... now that that testing mess is, for the most part, no longer a big concern of mine, I can focus on just training for the sake of training...

:samurai: :samurai:

 

[FUZZYJ692000]

We just switched over our testing to test when you're ready. Which is nice because some of the students are not there enough to learn all the material and test every three months like we were doing. Also it doesn't pressure you in remembering all the techniques, forms, and katas in a specific amount of time. I like it because I can take it at my own pace and in some of the techniques they are easier to execute and retain than others are for me and those that are harder I can spend more time on. How long? Seig says about 3 yrs., some of us maybe longer. But when we get there we would have earned it.:asian:

 

[kenposcum]

There is a short story entitled "Kwoon," I forget the author's name, wherein a young kung fu sifu recieves a new student who has studied all over the world for decades, been in numerous streetfights, killed people, etc. The new student proceeds to mop the floor with the sifu. The sifu then corrects some issues with the newcomer's form, stating, "A better fighter than me would be able to capitalize on these mistakes."
What does all this mean? To me, a black belt is not a sign of how long you've been in the art or how many techniques you know or even how skilled you are. There are a few non-martial artists out there who could beat the stuffing out of the majority of martial artists out there. So what?
Obviously, training in the martial arts should have a goal of increasing combat efficacy, and anyone who calls themself a black belt had better be able to fight well, but the martial arts are not just about beating an assailant's head in. There is a maturation, an awakening, a realization that truly makes one a black belt. As far as this goes, some people will train their whole lives and never truly be a black belt (at least in my humble opinion).
But obviously, train hard, sweat and breathe hard and bleed and puke, hit and get hit, work your fanny off whenever you're in the training hall, these things will help you attain the surface goal, which is to poundeth thy adversaries into yon nondescript red smear :asian:

 

[Cthulhu]

From what I've seen, in Okinawa-te, it takes a person on average around seven years to get to the point where they may be ready to test for black belt. Ten years isn't unheard of and five years is considered pretty fast. I attribute this to a few factors:

1) Simply the amount of material that needs to be covered.

2) We didn't have any regularly scheduled testing periods. We simply tested when we or our instructor felt we were ready. I distinctly remember my instructor making me take one belt test. I didn't think I was ready, but he knew otherwise and just made me test.

3) I'm not sure how it is now, since the organization has split into a few factions, but it used to be that an Okinawa-te black belt was certified to teach and test up to black belt. Therefore, the person had to know the material, which would contribute to the time span involved.

I've never trained in a school that had regularly scheduled testing periods, so I can't relate or comment on that. Now that I'm training in FCS Kali, we don't have any ranks. There are our two instructors and us punching bags...I mean...students. Everybody trains with everybody, regardless of skill level or time in the class. As such, I don't worry about rank or 'seniority' in that class. I just go to learn.

Which is really the whole point in the first place.

Cthulhu

 

[Seig]

Originally posted by FUZZYJ692000

We just switched over our testing to test when you're ready. Which is nice because some of the students are not there enough to learn all the material and test every three months like we were doing. Also it doesn't pressure you in remembering all the techniques, forms, and katas in a specific amount of time. I like it because I can take it at my own pace and in some of the techniques they are easier to execute and retain than others are for me and those that are harder I can spend more time on. How long? Seig says about 3 yrs., some of us maybe longer. But when we get there we would have earned it.:asian:

You either mis-quoted or misunderstood me. Testing is still going to be held every three months for those from white to green belt. Those going for the degrees of brown or higher will test when I think they are ready, not when they do. I also said that it would take at least three years, at a minimum. But you are right, when you get that belt from my hands, you will have earned it.:asian:

 

[Nightingale]

Personally, I like the belt ranking system. I use it as a way to track my own progress. It makes things easier to break down, so I can tell myself "at this time, I need to concentrate on these objectives..." It also lets me know who in the dojo knows more than I do, so I can go pick their brains about stuff I don't know.

 

[jkn75]

In kuk sool won, it is up to the schools to determine under black belt training times. Some schools are large enough to test regularly and have enough people to test once a month or every other month. In smaller schools, it can be every 2-3 months if people are ready and some college clubs offer testing at the end of each semester (4-5 months).

To make black belt it can take 4-5 years. You must test 4-6 times over a year (you only pay once though). After 1st degree there is a minimum number of years you must train. The first year is to train on under black belt techniques. Then you must train for two years before you can start testing for second degree. Then each belt is a number of years to train= 3rd degree train for three, 4th 4 years. Usually these take much longer though. There are very few people under 18 above 1st degree.

:asian:

 

[Seig]

Originally posted by Seig


You either mis-quoted or misunderstood me. Testing is still going to be held every three months for those from white to green belt. Those going for the degrees of brown or higher will test when I think they are ready, not when they do. I also said that it would take at least three years, at a minimum. But you are right, when you get that belt from my hands, you will have earned it.:asian:

I have since had reason to yet again modify this. Now, regardless of rank, they test when I feel they are ready. After a few incidents along the way, I have decided that I really don't care if they think they are ready or not. This may seem callous or even nasty, but it isn't. I love my students and do not want them having a false sense of security or superiority.

 

[Nightingale]

how can letting them wait until they feel they are ready give them a false sense of security?...not understanding...

respectfully,

-N-