How long to Black Belt?

[TLH3rdDan]

ok i dont believe in the testing cycle thing i think that is just a way to collect more money... i have a minimum amount of time required for each belt before the student is allowed to test... for example i reguire them to spend 4 months as a white belt before testing for a yellow belt no one tests before then however some people take longer than 4 months it just depends on how fast they pick up material... personally i feel that the test is more of a formality and a way to see how they perform under pressure than anything else... i already know they will pass before i give them the test date...

 

[Chiduce]

Originally posted by arnisador

If anyone is a 2nd dan and hasn't learned respect allready, something's wrong I'd say. I also dislike the idea of the military-style use of "Sir" even from a shodan to a nidan.

To those who say there should be no minimum time tin grade requirements: What if a student from a similar but different art comes to your art and learns very quickly--should there be any minimum time to black belt, say? Would you feel comfortable giving a black belt to someone after only 3 months, for example?

You present a very good question here! I have only one Black Belt which came to me from another system. He is in his mid 50's and his progression within the last month and a half has been nothing less than exceptional> I started him at 3rd Degree Brown and he is ready for second. It has been about 5 months since he started as 3rd brown. In my system, the brown belts are required to write 3 thesises concerning their art; it's execution of street combat motion and technical application! He is on his last thesis and will be conferred 2nd brown with the next several weeks after testing. His overall martial abilities and combative skills has increased 2 fold within this period. So, i would disagree with setting a time for testing, yet agree with if the progression is constant and productive; then i would not have a problem with conferring the next rank! Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!

 

[kickyou]

I agree that if someone is a 2nd dan and does not know how to be respectful something is wrong.But every once and a while you get that individual who seems to let their rank go to their head.You know the ones I am talking about they were the quiet somewhat mek student during their colored belt ranks but once they became a black belt they had the complete Dr. Jekell and Mr. Hyde tranformation.

 

[disciple]

I think the belt color really doesn't matter as it does nothing to help you in a fight
I have seen some schools that offer a black belt after 6 mo for the reason that anything below the black belt is only basic stuff like kicking, rooting, etc. They teach forms after you get black belt.
On the other hand I have also seen some school that try to hold onto the students too long to get the money out of them


salute

:asian:

 

[fist of fury]

Ours a at least a minimum of 3 1/2 years. We have no belt tests when you are ready and have put in a minimum amout of time you get your promotion nocharge. the only time you are charged is when you get a new belt then you pay for the cost of the belt.

 

[Toasty]

Here is what i think is a related question.
I read somewhere recently that Joe Lewis, in his style {Joe Lewis Karate i believe he calls it} has only promoted like 2 black belts in 10 years. {these numbers may not be exact, but you get the point i hope}.
to me that makes no sense as it only took him a whopping 9 months [i've also heard 7] to earn his black belt.

Any thoughts?



thanks
Rob
P.S. I think Mr. Norris was the first "video black-belt" as when he was stationed back in the States he would film himself doing forms and the other requirements to send back to his instructors in Korea for his 2nd & 3rd dans i believe.

 

[vincefuess]

I spent six years earning my black belt in American Kenpo, and while I will admit I dragged my *** a bit in the earlier belts, I BUSTED my *** the last three years of my training! I all but LIVED at the school. I taught, I trained, and I trained some more. It was my life at the time. Sheesh, and I still didn't feel I was ready when I tested- but then I guess you never do!

 

[Despairbear]

I have a hard time beliving that anyone can reach the mental as well a physical requirements for a black belt in as little as 0-5 years. It is my belife that a black belt is a teaching rank and that teaching other in your style requires more than knowlage of how to go threw the motions. An intrinsic understanding of the nauture of an art is difficult thing to obtain but is nessisary to be able to teach. Then again a black belt is just a peice of cloth and it does not confer any ablilitys. I feel that wearing a black belt after a few months/years of basic training is no differant than wearing a medal of honor or purple heart even thought you have never been in the military.


Despair Bear

 

[Kirk]

I think the definition of black belt has changed. Wasn't there a
time when there was no degrees of b.b? It was just b.b? Vince
talked in another thread about the likes of Pat Burleson and
such ... these guys were in full contact tournaments kickin' butt
and taking names as brown belts! And they had eons of time
studying the arts. I bet if you could draw a graphic
representation of the average number of years it took to get a
black belt starting from the 50's to present. That it'd pretty much
be a reverse tapering effect. There's no doubt that either the
art, or the ranking system has been watered down. Yesterday's
b.b. is probably the equivalent of a 5th degree b.b. nowadays.
The problem is that most people hold the same image of a b.b.
of yesterday, which is simply not the case.

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by Kirk

I think the definition of black belt has changed. Wasn't there a
time when there was no degrees of b.b? It was just b.b?

I don't think so, no. I think Jigaro Kano put the degrees in from the beginning.

 

[vincefuess]

People like Joe Lewis and Mike Stone got their black belts in matters of months- but they are definitely unique individuals! And I believe Bill Wallace got his pretty quick, too.

According to my brother, Demetrius Havanas "sandbagged" at brown belt for a year or so because he was enjoying being the baddest brown belt that ever walked- until they would no longer let him compete as a brown belt!!! Then he became the baddest black belt around, until his death in a plane crash.

They were just bad boys back then.

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by vincefuess

According to my brother, Demetrius Havanas "sandbagged" at brown belt for a year or so because he was enjoying being the baddest brown belt that ever walked

I've heard of BJJ players doing this for competetive advantage as well.

 

[Shinzu]

i can not comment on other schools, but i know at mine that in order to wear the black belt you must earn it. it is not given away like candy.

if you are not ready then you don't test. and if you dont know your stuff, then you will not pass.

it is a persons own growth speed that will determine when he/she reaches their bb level. i dont agree that you can not be ready for this level within a couple of years of training.

i know people that can prove that theory wrong.

 

[Kyle]

In BJJ it usually takes 8 to 10 years for black-belt. It is a rare individual who does it faster.

- Kyle

 

[KumaSan]

Like BJ Penn?

 

[Kyle]

Yes, exactly. He's the fastest I've ever heard of, about 4 years. Training 4 to 6 hours a day, 6 days a week the whole time on top of his natural talents. Truly amazing.

- Kyle

 

[KumaSan]

Yeah, he's one of those guys that when people call him a "phenom" you have to agree. He's amazing. I will be lucky to ever get to black in BJJ at the rate I'm going...

 

[Stickboxer]

First-time poster. Please bear with me.

I've had the "unfortunate" experience of training in styles, systems, and methods that don't utilize belt levels. You develop skill and spirit, not earn rank or certificates. You get better. That's it.

I've decided, however, to use belts not only so that my students have clear goals, but so I can glance at them and know what they have learned and how they should be able to perform at their given level.

My students can advance when they've reached certain degrees of technical knowledge, physical attribute development, and the like. Additionally, there are time requirements in the form of both total hours logged at their level AND minimum amount of months to have passed. That way, people can’t go too fast, yet those who go slow (whether they be hard-learners or part-time students due to other obligations) can still participate at their own speed.

For example, Phase One students in my school must put in at least 25 hours over at least six months. With two class hours available per week for this level, they need come once a week to make their requirements. FYI: Phase Two students must come to two of the three available classes per week; Phase Three learners need to attend three of the four open classes each week.

When a newer student shows a great deal of skill, likely from previous training in a similar style, I look to see if senior students and assistant instructors agree that the newer student should be allowed to accelerate in rank testing.

When that happens, I take away the minimum months requirements and allow the newer student to pass as fast as one could possibly take the needed number of classes. For example, a Phase One student could in theory take two classes per week and reach their needed 25 hours within 3 months, not six.

Phase Three graduates have a minimum of 350 hours of classroom instruction under their belts, earned over at least 3 years; this is specifically designed to mirror the black belt level in many local schools of traditional styles, including the TKD I've also trained in.

That brings up the question of how many HOURS, not necessarily how many YEARS, you think it'd take to become black belt.

A couple more kernels of food for thought. One, while my students can gain black belts in a few years (a little more than 4 years usually bears this), its not until they've reached an approximated Phase Five, which takes on average 8-10 years, before they can start teaching their own classes.

Two, someone mentioned a Tang Soo Do school. The head instructor in one TSD studio I used to train tells students that it should take between 2-7 years to earn a black belt, with 4-5 years being the average.

 

[tshadowchaser]

I have studied a few systems that only issued certificates. These where given if and when a student with the ability moved far enough away from the instructor as to not be competition.
One became a master through teaching over the years, and knowledge. One did not promote or call oneslef as master. This title is what others of rank eventualy called you.
I never had a problem wth that way of doing things. Mainly I guess because the knowledge was my goal not rank. With rank comes responsibility and less personal training time.
Shadow

PS anyone read Mandarin?I have an old cert. that I no longer am able to read properly and hate haveing anything on my wall that I can not translate word for word.

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by tshadowchaser

anyone read Mandarin?I have an old cert. that I no longer am able to read properly and hate haveing anything on my wall that I can not translate word for word.

Try asking in CMA-General!