How Important is Fighting in YOUR Martial Art?

[FriedRice]

Boxing would have little chance you be honest. Your reach to punch is generally shorter than the range of the knife. Better to use a thrusting kick if you are not training hand defences. Then again, any improvisation such as grabbing a handful of dirt, a stick or a chair, even spitting, may give the distraction you need to escape or enter.

If you have time to grab things then you can probably turn and run. But if you're trapped and must fight bare hands vs. knife, a thrust/front kick usually won't do much damage unless it's a good one to the face. Usually, it just pushes someone back and buys you 1-2 seconds before he comes back. This is from fighting and sparring full power...and getting hit with plenty of Teeps and sidekicks, they rarely hurt, and are just annoying and pushes me back. The ones to the face are just gross and makes people mad.

While getting off multiple jabs to the face will cause disorientation and sets up for the power shots and possible KO. This is more offensive than front kicks in a situation where you must fight bare hands vs. knife. A good Boxer can get multiple jabs off first. Untrained people who comes into train, usually just go crazy with flurries of streetfighting swings at 100% power & speed until they gas and all it takes to stop them is just jabs and footwork. Of course they're wearing gloves and not holding a knife, so no doubt it's a much lower risk. I still train Krav Maga for its weapons defense as knowing as much as possible doesn't hurt. I also train to slice someone's A up with my own blades and Mall Ninja hip shooting, quick draws, etc.

 

[FriedRice]

KO'ing the assailant would be the last thing on my mind; I'd focus on the immediate threat: the knife.

My argument for using my Boxing is that going for the slow or non-moving head is much easier than going for the fast moving knife hand. Punching people repeatedly in the face disorients them, especially if the power shot KO's them. This is a proven thing. It's still extremely risky, I'm just confident in my skills. This isn't for everyone, especially if their Boxing is not good.

Use a chair, broom/mop, even a candelier or a glass/bottle and either neutralize the threat or immediately remove your person from danger by bolting out of there.

No doubt, I would pull out my gun or my own blade. But this is about not having such luxuries. Although if they're very close, with a visible knife. I'd still probably need to get a few jabs off to buy time to get my gun out.

 

[Buka]

I haven't checked back into this thread until a couple days ago. It sure has gotten interesting!

If I could throw in two cents or three....Let's start with the odd.
I abhor violence against women and children. It is a pet peeve of mine and always will be. But, Robin Givens and her mother set up Mike Tyson. Purposely, perfectly, and brilliantly, I might add. They are both far more evil than Tyson ever was. And I don't like Tyson, not one little bit.

Best thing about this thread is, it seems to me everyone has fighting in their Art! I think that's wonderful. I think fighting is the only thing that unites the martial arts. (feel free to tear me a new one over that statement)

Knives suck. The longer I train them, the scarier they get.

 

[K-man]

I agree. Knives are a special case on their own; the approach to knife defense must be specific. I would probably never attempt to kick the assailant, unless it were to create distance and I was absolutely sure I could get my leg out of there lest he cut it. A leg may have further reach than an arm with a knife, but the latter is capable of fatal injury, much more so than the former at least.

Unfortunately no. Kicking is not to create distance if you create distance your attacker will just close again and you will no longer have any element of surprise. If you have to engage you have to tie up the weapon arm. The kick is to give you entry. If you can get away you get away. This is for when getting away is not an option.

Not that I'm all that keen on what's shown here but it gives the idea.

 

[K-man]

If you have time to grab things then you can probably turn and run. But if you're trapped and must fight bare hands vs. knife, a thrust/front kick usually won't do much damage unless it's a good one to the face. Usually, it just pushes someone back and buys you 1-2 seconds before he comes back.

You can't kick a guy with a knife in the face. If you miss you will be cut really badly. The kick is low and fast. It is lot normally to push him back. It is to drop him or gain entry.

This is from fighting and sparring full power...and getting hit with plenty of Teeps and sidekicks, they rarely hurt, and are just annoying and pushes me back. The ones to the face are just gross and makes people mad.

This is not what I'm talking about and if you had ever trained with a Krav instructor you would know that.

While getting off multiple jabs to the face will cause disorientation and sets up for the power shots and possible KO. This is more offensive than front kicks in a situation where you must fight bare hands vs. knife. A good Boxer can get multiple jabs off first. Untrained people who comes into train, usually just go crazy with flurries of streetfighting swings at 100% power & speed until they gas and all it takes to stop them is just jabs and footwork.

Go for it you use multiple jabs against me with a knife. You're dead in seconds. To think you are able to enter stabbing range to deliver jabs is fairyland. The front kick is because you get extra range. You lean back to keep your torso further away.

Of course they're wearing gloves and not holding a knife, so no doubt it's a much lower risk. I still train Krav Maga for its weapons defense as knowing as much as possible doesn't hurt. I also train to slice someone's A up with my own blades and Mall Ninja hip shooting, quick draws, etc.

What you have described is nothing like I teach in Krav. I'd like to see what Brian VanCise thinks of your idea. He probably has as much or more knowledge of knife defence as anyone on MT.

 

[FriedRice]

You can't kick a guy with a knife in the face. If you miss you will be cut really badly. The kick is low and fast. It is lot normally to push him back. It is to drop him or gain entry.

Sure you can a guy with a knife in the face, it's just riskier. And being cut badly would depend on the other guy and even his knife. Not everyone carries a razor sharp knife. Low kick can work, I'm just saying punches are better at knife range.

This is not what I'm talking about and if you had ever trained with a Krav instructor you would know that.

I do train Krav Maga and even said so in English even. If you know Krav Maga, you'd know that they have more than one varying system, so there's not a uniformly accepted curriculum. And they are still evolving by continually copying other systems' techniques.

Go for it you use multiple jabs against me with a knife. You're dead in seconds. To think you are able to enter stabbing range to deliver jabs is fairyland. The front kick is because you get extra range. You lean back to keep your torso further away.

You just don't know what good Boxing can do with jabs. But if I had my knife and you with your barehands whatever and your front kick entry, you'd be just as dead in seconds too.

What you have described is nothing like I teach in Krav. I'd like to see what Brian VanCise thinks of your idea. He probably has as much or more knowledge of knife defence as anyone on MT.

I never said that what I'm advocating with punching a knife wielder in the face is what I've been taught in Krav Maga. I said that this was my personal, go-to strategy vs. knife. While I also train Krav to learn what they teach in terms of defense against weapons based on these certain gyms' federation that I drop-in on.

 

[Drose427]

Sure you can a guy with a knife in the face, it's just riskier. And being cut badly would depend on the other guy and even his knife. Not everyone carries a razor sharp knife. Low kick can work, I'm just saying punches are better at knife range.



I do train Krav Maga and even said so in English even. If you know Krav Maga, you'd know that they have more than one varying system, so there's not a uniformly accepted curriculum. And they are still evolving by continually copying other systems' techniques.



You just don't know what good Boxing can do with jabs. But if I had my knife and you with your barehands whatever and your front kick entry, you'd be just as dead in seconds too.



I never said that what I'm advocating with punching a knife wielder in the face is what I've been taught in Krav Maga. I said that this was my personal, go-to strategy vs. knife. While I also train Krav to learn what they teach in terms of defense against weapons based on these certain gyms' federation that I drop-in on.

Boxing someone with a knife is a terrible idea, it doesn't matter how good of a boxer you are. You can make me dizzy all you want, it means nothing when you stepped straight into my knife for it.

You are literally the first person I've ever spoken to advocating it.

Second, I believe K-man has boxing experience. I'm noticing a trend here, you pop up, mention ideas or beliefs that many, many people have corrected, then get defensive.

Hold whatever opinion you want, but trying to jab someone with a knife is a great way to get stabbed in the chest\gut, or get the arteries on your arm sliced open.

Boxing an attacker with a knife isn't common knife defense ANYWHERE in my experience.

 

[K-man]

My argument for using my Boxing is that going for the slow or non-moving head is much easier than going for the fast moving knife hand. Punching people repeatedly in the face disorients them, especially if the power shot KO's them. This is a proven thing. It's still extremely risky, I'm just confident in my skills. This isn't for everyone, especially if their Boxing is not good.

Good luck with the punching.

No doubt, I would pull out my gun or my own blade. But this is about not having such luxuries. Although if they're very close, with a visible knife. I'd still probably need to get a few jabs off to buy time to get my gun out.[/QUOTE]Cool. If you reckon you can do that, go for it. I must say, you are the first person I have ever heard make these sorts of claims.

 

[K-man]

No doubt, I would pull out my gun or my own blade. But this is about not having such luxuries. Although if they're very close, with a visible knife. I'd still probably need to get a few jabs off to buy time to get my gun out.

Here's another one. These guys already have the knives out.

Did you find it strange that they kept out of each other's reach? I mean, how much easier would it have been for one to just walk in and knock the other guy out?

 

[Buka]

Two people. Each with a knife. Possible outcomes -
A gets cut/stabbed, B doesn't.
B gets cut/stabbed, A doesn't.
Both get cut/stabbed.
There's a 67 percent chance you're going to get cut/stabbed.
I don't know what the odds/figures would be unarmed against a knife. I don't defend well against a knife if I'm unarmed. In fact, not at all, unfortunately.

 

[RTKDCMB]

Can't help you don't understand, cya.

Not if you don't say things that make sense. Bye.

 

[RTKDCMB]

Here's another one. These guys already have the knives out.

Did you find it strange that they kept out of each other's reach? I mean, how much easier would it have been for one to just walk in and knock the other guy out?

I like how the knife fight is 'sudden death'.

 

[RTKDCMB]

You can't kick a guy with a knife in the face. If you miss you will be cut really badly.

Definitely, you would expose your femoral artery and put it at a convenient height for cutting.

 

[RTKDCMB]

Rare huh? Has anybody else here on this forum ever been attacked in the real world?

A couple of days ago one of our white belts, about 5 or 6 years old, saw a young girl who was his friend getting bullied by another boy so he pushed the bully away and said to him "leave her alone", "I don't want to fight you so back off" and the bully backed down. His school praised him for protecting the girl.

 

[FriedRice]

Boxing someone with a knife is a terrible idea, it doesn't matter how good of a boxer you are. You can make me dizzy all you want, it means nothing when you stepped straight into my knife for it.

It's probably a terrible idea to you because your Boxing is not good and you've never KO'ed anyone during sparring and competition fights before. And I don't mean this as a putdown and also, I should have qualified that this isn't easy, as it does take good Boxing skills.

You are literally the first person I've ever spoken to advocating it.

I've seen a few videos popping up recently about this on Knife Defense on YouTube, but yes, I've been advocating this for quite a few years now.

Second, I believe K-man has boxing experience. I'm noticing a trend here, you pop up, mention ideas or beliefs that many, many people have corrected, then get defensive.

Boxing experience can mean various things. Technically, someone who just tried out the free, intro class at a LA Boxing or something, "has boxing experience", just not the same as Mayweather, but they still can say that they have experience. Many people, when they first try out our gym, often tell me (when I ask about their experience), that they used to "Box in college" or "have fought in the streets", etc. Even after hitting pads and showing some legit skills, it's still not a guarantee that they can fight. The best way of gauging such is when I spar them.

Hold whatever opinion you want, but trying to jab someone with a knife is a great way to get stabbed in the chest\gut, or get the arteries on your arm sliced open.

And you can hold whatever opinion you want vs. knives and find out that it's also a great way to get stabbed in the chest/gut, or get your arteries on your arm sliced open.

Boxing an attacker with a knife isn't common knife defense ANYWHERE in my experience.

Probably, in order to train this effectively, the attacker with the knife must get punched in the face for real at full speed and power to prove the effectiveness of been stopped cold, by punches. The average grandma ain't going to go for this type of training.

 

[FriedRice]

Good luck with the punching.

Cool. If you reckon you can do that, go for it. I must say, you are the first person I have ever heard make these sorts of claims.

There are a few videos on YouTube advocating such techniques. I can't remember exactly, but one may have been a Krav Maga instructor.

 

[FriedRice]

Here's another one. These guys already have the knives out.

Did you find it strange that they kept out of each other's reach? I mean, how much easier would it have been for one to just walk in and knock the other guy out?

These guys are pretty slow and sloppy, but do you think that you'd do better empty hand vs. knife in this situation where it's a "must fight" scenario with your SD techniques? I'm just more confident in my hand speed and KO precision than you are. But I don't doubt that the knife wielder has a huge advantage over me and I have a much higher chance of failing or dying.

Here's a real knife fight:

 

[FriedRice]

Two people. Each with a knife. Possible outcomes -
A gets cut/stabbed, B doesn't.
B gets cut/stabbed, A doesn't.
Both get cut/stabbed.
There's a 67 percent chance you're going to get cut/stabbed.
I don't know what the odds/figures would be unarmed against a knife. I don't defend well against a knife if I'm unarmed. In fact, not at all, unfortunately.

Usually, the winner of a Knife vs. Knife fight is the guy who dies at the hospital, later

 

[RTKDCMB]

Why would boxing really be any lower percentage.

You still have that low percent chance you will knock the guy out before he can cut you. Which is honestly about the same as catching the arm.

Boxing can mean different things: If you are going for stick and move you might have a chance as long as you don't forget about the knife, but if you are doing stand and trade you will get yourself killed.

 

[elder999]

Usually, the winner of a Knife vs. Knife fight is the guy who dies at the hospital, later

Rii-ight.