How important is fighting in the Martial Arts?

[elder999]

Oh, and since you seem to enjoy the Merriam Webster English Language Technical Manual,(that's engineerspeak for "dictionary.") here's something for you to consider:

nu·ance
ˈn(y)o͞oˌäns/
noun
a subtle difference in or shade of meaning, expression, or sound.

1. "the nuances of facial expression and body language"
   synonyms: fine distinction, subtle difference; More
   verb

1. give nuances to.
   "the effect of the music is nuanced by the social situation of listeners"

 

[elder999]

Actually Tae Bo doesn't feature fighting components, since it doesn't teach you how to kick or punch properly. The purpose behind the kicking and punching in Tae Bo is purely for exercise purposes.

What makes you say that Tae Bo doesn't teach how to kick or punch properly?

 

[ballen0351]

Actually Tae Bo doesn't feature fighting components, since it doesn't teach you how to kick or punch properly. The purpose behind the kicking and punching in Tae Bo is purely for exercise purposes.

Goju training completely revolves around those concepts. Everything you do is to teach you how to kick and punch properly.

So again ill ask what are fighting components?

Boxers are fighters. So if the goal is to make you a better boxer, the goal is to make you a better fighter by default.

Unless of course your not boxing to fight and your boxing to loose weight, get in shape, or because you like it.

Those are some very rare martial arts. I'm mainly talking about the more common/popular martial arts.

So basically you only want to discuss the styles that match your beliefs all others dont count

 

[elder999]

So basically you only want to discuss the styles that match your beliefs all others dont count

QFT.

 

[K-man]

Goju training completely revolves around those concepts. Everything you do is to teach you how to kick and punch properly.

Um, no. There is much, much more to Goju than punching and kicking.

Boxers are fighters. So if the goal is to make you a better boxer, the goal is to make you a better fighter by default.

Again, boxing sometimes is just to develop cardiovascular fitness. That is why it was popular in the armed forces. It had the added benefit of channeling aggression but H2H was separate training to teach guys how to fight without weapons.

Actually it does fit, since physical struggle is included within the definition of fighting, and traditional forms of Bjj have strikes/blows within the system.

Ah, beautiful! Good Aikido doesn't involve physical struggle but bad Aikido does. Does that mean that bad Aikido includes fighting so is a martial art but good Aikido doesn't involve fighting so isn't a martial art? But then Aikido also has strikes/blows within its system. This is getting really confusing.

Those are some very rare martial arts. I'm mainly talking about the more common/popular martial arts.

Well perhaps you should have said so, but mainstream Aikido is really quite popular and doesn't have 'fighting' that falls within your definition of fighting.

 

[Hanzou]

So again ill ask what are fighting components?

The components of a system that enhance your ability to fight. For example, the stances of Karate, or the drills of Bjj.

Unless of course your not boxing to fight and your boxing to loose weight, get in shape, or because you like it.

Then you're not doing Boxing the martial art. You're doing exercises derived from the martial art of Boxing.

So basically you only want to discuss the styles that match your beliefs all others dont count

Basically there's no point in discussing styles that are pretty much nonexistent outside of the confines of their home countries. Why would we waste time talking about Kyudo when most people are taking TKD or MMA?

 

[ballen0351]

The components of a system that enhance your ability to fight. For example, the stances of Karate, or the drills of Bjj.

So Tae Bo has all that, hell p90X has stances punches and kicks, so does football, ect.

Then you're not doing Boxing the martial art. You're doing exercises derived from the martial art of Boxing.

So if I go to a boxing gym and train to box but I dont actually fight im not learning Boxing?

Basically there's no point in discussing styles that are pretty much nonexistent outside of the confines of their home countries. Why would we waste time talking about Kyudo when most people are taking TKD or MMA?

lol yea ok so I was right

 

[Hanzou]

Um, no. There is much, much more to Goju than punching and kicking.

All of which is to make you better at kicking and punching.

Again, boxing sometimes is just to develop cardiovascular fitness. That is why it was popular in the armed forces. It had the added benefit of channeling aggression but H2H was separate training to teach guys how to fight without weapons.

Okay, so the goal for that particular training was to develop endurance and stamina. Again, an exercise derived from the martial art of Boxing, not the martial art itself.

Ah, beautiful! Good Aikido doesn't involve physical struggle but bad Aikido does. Does that mean that bad Aikido includes fighting so is a martial art but good Aikido doesn't involve fighting so isn't a martial art? But then Aikido also has strikes/blows within its system. This is getting really confusing.

Well perhaps you should have said so, but mainstream Aikido is really quite popular and doesn't have 'fighting' that falls within your definition of fighting.

Wasn't there an entire article in the Aikido forum about how Aikido isn't a Martial Art anymore because its lost its fighting attributes?

 

[Hanzou]

So Tae Bo has all that, hell p90X has stances punches and kicks, so does football, ect.

Stances and punches designed for aerobic purposes, not to actually punch and kick someone.

So if I go to a boxing gym and train to box but I dont actually fight im not learning Boxing?

Part of learning to box is actually boxing someone.

 

[K-man]

The components of a system that enhance your ability to fight. For example, the stances of Karate, or the drills of Bjj.

So the stances in Karate are important now to enhance your ability to fight yet in another thread you claimed they were useless and you never see them in a fight. Kata is also a part of karate that enhance your ability to fight. Have you changed your position on kata as well?

Then you're not doing Boxing the martial art. You're doing exercises derived from the martial art of Boxing.

So if someone is in a boxing class, punching the heavy bag, doing the pad work, roadwork, skipping etc but not going in the ring, they are not doing boxing. Hmm!

Basically there's no point in discussing styles that are pretty much nonexistent outside of the confines of their home countries. Why would we waste time talking about Kyudo when most people are taking TKD or MMA?

Then perhaps you should discuss TKD as a single example rather than lump everything together as TMAs or MAs.

If the thread had been titled "How important is fighting within TKD" you would have a much more clearly defined discussion. That also would stop you "wasting your time talking about Kyudo".

 

[ballen0351]

Stances and punches designed for aerobic purposes, not to actually punch and kick someone.

So I cant take what I learned in class and punch someone?

Part of learning to box is actually boxing someone.

Says who?

 

[elder999]

Stances and punches designed for aerobic purposes, not to actually punch and kick someone.

They're stances and punches taken directly from martial arts, kenpo and tae kwon do, so what do you mean?

Part of learning to box is actually boxing someone.

In your apparently narrow view of things, perhaps, but-and I say this as a former Golden Gloves boxer and current trainer-one can learn to box without "actually boxing" someone.

 

[ballen0351]

Well Hanz we will just have to disagree. I think you have too narrow of a view on what is and isnt a martial art. Me I dont care. If Tae Bo wants to call itself a Martial Art cool Its in art. In the grand scheme of things who cares, If a boxers doesnt want to get in the ring who care its still boxing.

 

[Hanzou]

So the stances in Karate are important now to enhance your ability to fight yet in another thread you claimed they were useless and you never see them in a fight. Kata is also a part of karate that enhance your ability to fight. Have you changed your position on kata as well?

Where did I say they were useless?? I said that there's better ways to reach the end goal of kata, which is general technique improvement.

So if someone is in a boxing class, punching the heavy bag, doing the pad work, roadwork, skipping etc but not going in the ring, they are not doing boxing. Hmm!

Nope. Boxing is actually getting in the ring and boxing.

Then perhaps you should discuss TKD as a single example rather than lump everything together as TMAs or MAs.

Nah.

 

[Hanzou]

They're stances and punches taken directly from martial arts, kenpo and tae kwon do, so what do you mean?

I mean if you want to seriously argue that someone doing Tae Bo is actually learning to hit someone, then you're being silly.

In your apparently narrow view of things, perhaps, but-and I say this as a former Golden Gloves boxer and current trainer-one can learn to box without "actually boxing" someone.

So you can box without actually boxing? Interesting.

 

[K-man]

All of which is to make you better at kicking and punching.

Not at all. They make me better at locks and holds and takedowns. They make me better at grappling. They make me better at striking. Punches and kicks are a very small part of Goju.

Okay, so the goal for that particular training was to develop endurance and stamina. Again, an exercise derived from the martial art of Boxing, not the martial art itself.

So now it is the goal of the training that is important. At least we can agree on something. But training a martial art with a particular goal does not invalidate the training as a martial art. The goal of my Aikido training is not to learn Aikido. That is a side benefit. I train Aikido to learn the skill sets within Aikido to apply to my other MA training.

Wasn't there an entire article in the Aikido forum about how Aikido isn't a Martial Art anymore because its lost its fighting attributes?

Certainly, and that was one person's thoughts. Are you suggesting Aikido is not a Martial Art?

 

[K-man]

Where did I say they were useless?? I said that there's better ways to reach the end goal of kata, which is general technique improvement.

Stances in karate are used for grappling, not for sparring or strengthening the legs. You made remarks about training stances that were a waste of time. And your understanding of kata hasn't changed despite 100s of pages of posts with people trying to explain to you what kata is really about. You don't want to learn, you just want to push your own view, which in the case of kata, is shallow and deeply flawed. Kata is nothing to do with technique improvement ... absolutely nothing.

Nope. Boxing is actually getting in the ring and boxing.

In your humble opinion.

Nah.

So you would rather keep the discussion vague rather than specific? What a clever strategy!

 

[elder999]

So you can box without actually boxing? Interesting.

What I said was "you can learn to box without actually boxing." There's a difference between what I said, and what you've found "interesting."

Of course, we've already established that that difference is "thought," or the lack thereof?

At any rate, I trained someone who'd had facial reconstruction and other cranial surgery. They couldn't get hit in the head, so no "actual boxing" for them. They did, however, learn to box.

 

[Zero]

Actually, sujutsu,, or tosuijutsu-swimming in armor-is a "martial art."

Here's something not too many know, those SCBA (self-contained breathing apparatus) that firemen wear, well you can wear those things and breath under about two meters of water. Like a low grade scuba outfit. There you go, now that's something worth knowing.

 

[Elbowgrease]

I know people who have never practiced any form of "martial art" that are absolutely amazing fighters. But there ugly, rotten, over the edge lunatics with baseball bats, guns, knives, etc. that would kill there own mother for $5.
How many different aspects of life could a person apply The Art of War to?
It's a book specifically about war, but it really can be applied to ANYTHING.
To me, fighting is easy. The hard part of it is making it through the day without fighting. Learning how to deal with the people around me in a relatively positive way.
Is that a martial art? Is that fighting?
That is one of the many, many reasons I practice martial arts.
You can only ask this question as it regards each individual, and with the understanding that each individual is going to have a different answer, and all are true, and none are true.
So what's that got to do with the price of rice.
Why do YOU practice martial arts?
How important is fighting to you?
Those are the questions you have to ask yourself.