How important is fighting in the Martial Arts?

[Hanzou]

the top argument doesn't work. Running is not fitness because i can get fit swimming?

Uh what? I'm saying that I wouldn't consider Iaido or the tea ceremony martial arts because they develop your "personality", not fighting ability.

 

[Hanzou]

Fight

: to use weapons or physical force to try to hurt someone, to defeat an enemy, etc. : to struggle in battle or physical combat
: to be involved in (a battle, struggle, etc.) involving the exchange of physical blows or the use of weapons.

Fighting
would be performing the above.

Conflict
: a struggle for power, property, etc.
: strong disagreement between people, groups, etc., that results in angry argument
: a difference that prevents agreement : disagreement between ideas, feelings, etc.

These definitions are from Webster’s Dictionary

All fighting is conflict but conflict isn’t necessarily fighting.

Self defense, combat sports, etc. (i.e. pretty much the entirety of martial arts) fits perfectly into that definition of "fight".

 

[drop bear]

Uh what? I'm saying that I wouldn't consider Iaido or the tea ceremony martial arts because they develop your "personality", not fighting ability.

see we are playing around with a lot of really vague concepts. Iaido is still swinging a sword around. Boxing can help develop personality and the tea ceremony is supposed to prepare your mind to better kill people.

 

[elder999]

Uh what? I'm saying that I wouldn't consider Iaido or the tea ceremony martial arts because they develop your "personality", not fighting ability.

I've been in a few iaido dojo from time to time, and I've never seen anyone "fighting." Strange.......

From the webpage of the Nishi Kaigan Iaido Dojo 西海岸居合道道場 , in San Fransisco:

"The finest blade stays in the scabbard"
The above expression means that the goal of Iaido is to develop a mind in harmony with itself and the world. By controlling the sword, you control yourself. By controlling yourself, you are more able to control the situation you are in and you will ultimately choose a peaceful way of acting.

(Though I agree with his statement about the goal of iaido, I don't think that's quite what katsujinken..) means......)

 

[Hanzou]

see we are playing around with a lot of really vague concepts. Iaido is still swinging a sword around. Boxing can help develop personality and the tea ceremony is supposed to prepare your mind to better kill people.

Wouldn't that be a pretty broad application though? Sure you can develop a better personality from boxing, but that isn't its primary purpose. Boxing's training is designed to make you a better boxer period. Developing a good personality from training is a side effect, not the goal.

Just like getting tapped out constantly in Bjj makes you a better person because it breaks down your ego. However, that isn't the primary goal of Bjj training, or tapping out, its merely a side effect of it.

 

[drop bear]

Wouldn't that be a pretty broad application though? Sure you can develop a better personality from boxing, but that isn't its primary purpose. Boxing's training is designed to make you a better boxer period. Developing a good personality from training is a side effect, not the goal.

it is vague isn't it?

boxing in seal team six is geared towards fighting skill. Boxing outreach programs for indigenous youth geared towards better personality.

is one a martial art and not the other?

 

[Hanzou]

it is vague isn't it?

boxing in seal team six is geared towards fighting skill. Boxing outreach programs for indigenous youth geared towards better personality.

is one a martial art and not the other?

Actually its not vague at all. Boxing itself is a martial art. If you're practicing boxing without the fighting components then you're not doing a martial art, you're doing an activity derived from a martial art.

Just like Tae Bo.

 

[Steve]

I'm completely lost. Is BJJ a martial art?

 

[ballen0351]

I guess I dont understand what fighting components are

 

[ballen0351]

I'm completely lost. Is BJJ a martial art?

Only if you do it to fight

 

[Hanzou]

I'm completely lost. Is BJJ a martial art?

Bjj fits the definition of martial art;

martial art
noun
: any one of several forms of fighting and self-defense (such as karate and judo) that are widely practiced as sports

So I would say yes.

 

[Danny T]

Self defense, combat sports, etc. (i.e. pretty much the entirety of martial arts) fits perfectly into that definition of "fight".

Self defense:
: the act of defending yourself, your property, etc.
: skills that make you capable of protecting yourself during an attack

Locking your windows and doors at you home or on your vehicle is self defense. Where is the fighting in that? Where I live we have hurricanes and floods. When one is about to happen I board up my house and leave taking my family out of harms way. That is self defense. Where is the Martial Art in that?

 

[Hanzou]

Self defense, combat sports, etc. (i.e. pretty much the entirety of martial arts) fits perfectly into that definition of "fight".

Self defense:
: the act of defending yourself, your property, etc.
: skills that make you capable of protecting yourself during an attack

Locking your windows and doors at you home or on your vehicle is self defense. Where is the fighting in that? Where I live we have hurricanes and floods. When one is about to happen I board up my house and leave taking my family out of harms way. That is self defense. Where is the Martial Art in that?

So in your martial arts class you're learning how to lock your windows and board up your house?

I'd ask for my money back.

In all seriousness, you know what I'm talking about. Let's stop with the semantic games shall we?

 

[ballen0351]

So in your martial arts class you're learning how to lock your windows and board up your house?

yep and I teach other defense related things like park near street lights, walk to your car at night with keys in your hand ready to get in. if you think someone if following you dont go home and call 911 ect

I'd ask for my money back.

Id never allow you in my class so no worries

In all seriousness, you know what I'm talking about. Let's stop with the semantic games shall we?

no in all seriousness wedont

 

[Dirty Dog]

Self defense, combat sports, etc. (i.e. pretty much the entirety of martial arts) fits perfectly into that definition of "fight".

I have done a fair bit of competing. I have never done it with the intent to harm my opponent. Nor are they my enemy.

 

[elder999]

I have done a fair bit of competing. I have never done it with the intent to harm my opponent. Nor are they my enemy.

Back in the day, when I started competing in Japanese style bareknuckle knockout tournaments, my intent was to harm my opponent. Took about my first match for that to change, though.

After that, my goal was to keep my head on my shoulders and my body standing upright..... (Hey, here's
some feed back for our hosts: these smileys suck.)

 

[Hanzou]

I have done a fair bit of competing. I have never done it with the intent to harm my opponent. Nor are they my enemy.

That's only two of the four definitions provided.

Also opponent is a synonym for enemy.

 

[K-man]

we have already hit the " you don't understand the real martial arts"?

Of course by adding the extra word you did, you have changed the whole meaning. Do you agree that there are martial arts and there is martial sport and that there is a small overlap?

 

[K-man]

The dictionary's definition of Martial Art;

martial art
noun
: any one of several forms of fighting and self-defense (such as karate and judo) that are widely practiced as sports

Martial art - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

So by this definition any system that is not widely practised as a sport is not a martial art but anything involving fighting is, as long as it is widely practised as a sport. Hmm! That's strange. I no longer practise a martial art by this definition.

Now 'Self Defence' is a martial art according to this definition but 'self defence' doesn't actually exist. Nobody from a self defence background has ever rocked up to the UFC as far as I'm aware.

I was under the impression that self defence was the legal term used to justify the violence your perpetrated in defending yourself, your family and friends or your property. Interesting that it is now a bone fide martial art. For those who have never seen 'real' self defence in action, here is a bit from the self defence world championships.

 

[Danny T]

So by this definition any system that is not widely practised as a sport is not a martial art but anything involving fighting is, as long as it is widely practised as a sport. Hmm! That's strange. I no longer practise a martial art by this definition.

Now 'Self Defence' is a martial art according to this definition but 'self defence' doesn't actually exist. Nobody from a self defence background has ever rocked up to the UFC as far as I'm aware.

I was under the impression that self defence was the legal term used to justify the violence your perpetrated in defending yourself, your family and friends or your property. Interesting that it is now a bone fide martial art. For those who have never seen 'real' self defence in action, here is a bit from the self defence world championships.

And this is why understanding the definitions and semantics are important in communication.