How important is fighting in the Martial Arts?

[Hanzou]

What are fighting components?

Compare Goju Ryu to Tae Bo. One has a fighting component, the other doesn't.

 

[Buka]

To me - Martial Arts are a lot of things, and a lot of those things help more people than I could possibly name, and in more ways than some people might believe. But fighting is the cornerstone, the rock the church is built upon.

In my experience, 90% of everyone who ever walked into a dojo, any dojo in any part of the world, wants to know how to fight. I feel once they are there they learn a lot about themselves and about other things as well. Sometimes that initial want of "learning to fight" takes a back seat, and that's a good thing, to me, anyway.

But it all starts with fighting and honor.

 

[ballen0351]

Compare Goju Ryu to Tae Bo. One has a fighting component, the other doesn't.

I have no idea what Tae bo is. Isn't it an exercise video?

 

[Hanzou]

I have no idea what Tae bo is. Isn't it an exercise video?

Yeah, its aerobics, not martial arts. My point is that no one in a Tae Bo class is talking about punching or kicking someone in the face. However, that conversation is occurring in the Goju Ryu dojo. In fact, just about everything you do in that dojo is learning how to become more efficient and better at doing damage to someone.

Which is why I find it strange that some don't view "fighting" as an important component of their art.

To me - Martial Arts are a lot of things, and a lot of those things help more people than I could possibly name, and in more ways than some people might believe. But fighting is the cornerstone, the rock the church is built upon.

In my experience, 90% of everyone who ever walked into a dojo, any dojo in any part of the world, wants to know how to fight. I feel once they are there they learn a lot about themselves and about other things as well. Sometimes that initial want of "learning to fight" takes a back seat, and that's a good thing, to me, anyway.

But it all starts with fighting and honor.

Agreed.

 

[Dirty Dog]

No, I consider any conflict between individuals or groups as fighting. Sporting events certainly qualify, but so does someone attacking someone else in a bar or a pub, or someone attacking someone else in "da streetz".

You can define words however you like. But it makes communication difficult. May I mumble dogface to the banana patch?

You say what you would do in a fight isn't limited.

That is correct.

You sure about that?

Of course I am. If you knew me at all, you'd know that one of my characteristics is that if I am not pretty damned certain about something, I keep my mouth shut, or make it clear that what I am saying is a guess or non-fact-based opinion.
And unlike most, I have actually been attacked by someone actively trying to kill me, so I know how I would respond.

Wouldn't your response be potentially tempered by your local laws?

No. My response will be based entirely upon my estimation of the threat posed by the attacker(s). If I think they can be subdued without injury, then that's what I try to do. If I think they can be subdued with minor injuries, then that is what I try to do. If I think they pose a lethal threat, then I'm going to do my very best to kill them first. That's fighting.

 

[Zero]

Funnily enough but I think some of those Tae Boe types actually think they are doing some form of MA. I had a mate who was doing "body combat" in some commercial gym for a while and I remember him going on about how he would blast some guy with his rear elbow strikes if he gave him any trouble, I almost choked trying not to laugh in my good friend's face.

 

[ballen0351]

So are you saying Tae bo should be considered a martial art? I think the fact you learn punching and kicking in a fitness class proves there is more to Martial arts then "fighting"

 

[elder999]

Well I would argue that one learns Iaido to know how to better use (or fight with) the sword.

You'd be wrong, though.

One learns iaijutsu to better their fighting with a sword, among other things.

One learns iaido to perfect their personality.

 

[Zero]

Compare Goju Ryu to Tae Bo. One has a fighting component, the other doesn't.

Is there a non-fighting component of goju ryu? I'm still struggling to see where the fighting component ends and something else takes off. Is it not all geared towards fighting? Even the body conditioning aspects? Are they not there to make you better conditioned to fight?

 

[Zero]

So are you saying Tae bo should be considered a martial art? I think the fact you learn punching and kicking in a fitness class proves there is more to Martial arts then "fighting"

I don't think this was angled at me but if so, I don't see TB as an MA in any way, nor that body combat stuff in the gyms - I see those as a great way of teaching guys and gals how to throw a punch poorly at best and break their wrists!

That said, even with next to no skill, a fight is still a fight.

 

[Hanzou]

You can define words however you like. But it makes communication difficult. May I mumble dogface to the banana patch?

The definition of fighting I gave is the English definition of the word.

 

[Hanzou]

You'd be wrong, though.

One learns iaijutsu to better their fighting with a sword, among other things.

One learns iaido to perfect their personality.

So how exactly is Iaido a martial art?

I mean, I can perfect my personality by learning a tea ceremony.

Is there a non-fighting component of goju ryu? I'm still struggling to see where the fighting component ends and something else takes off. Is it not all geared towards fighting? Even the body conditioning aspects? Are they not there to make you better conditioned to fight?

I would say yes.

 

[ballen0351]

So how exactly is Iaido a martial art?

What's your definition of a martial art

 

[elder999]

So how exactly is Iaido a martial art?

I mean, I can perfect my personality by learning a tea ceremony.

.

Exactly!!

 

[K-man]

I don't have time for a detailed post just now but I have read and reread this thread. It is apparent that there are two positions in this discussion. Those who understand martial arts and those who don't.

If you are training for the ring you are training a martial sport. In this situation your 'fighting' and ability to compete within a given rule set is obviously paramount. You will be fighting on a regular basis but your time in a martial sport is limited. Injury and age will put an end to your career.

People train a martial art for any number of reasons. Even if I was training BJJ, learning to fight would only be a very minor part of it. Very few people I train or train with get into fights, yet they turn up day after day, week after week, year after year. Some here on MT have been training for over forty years, many over thirty and many of them probably have never been in a real fight. So why do they keep training? For all sorts of reasons, but you can bet your life, fighting is not the main reason for them training.

 

[Hanzou]

What's your definition of a martial art

The dictionary's definition of Martial Art;

martial art
noun
: any one of several forms of fighting and self-defense (such as karate and judo) that are widely practiced as sports

Martial art - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

 

[drop bear]

So how exactly is Iaido a martial art?

I mean, I can perfect my personality by learning a tea ceremony.



I would say yes.

the top argument doesn't work. Running is not fitness because i can get fit swimming?

 

[drop bear]

The dictionary's definition of Martial Art;

martial art
noun
: any one of several forms of fighting and self-defense (such as karate and judo) that are widely practiced as sports

Martial art - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Oxford.

Definition of fight in English:

verb (past and past participle fought /fɔːt/)



1 [no object] Take part in a violent struggle involving the exchange of physical blows or the use of weapons:

 

[drop bear]

I don't have time for a detailed post just now but I have read and reread this thread. It is apparent that there are two positions in this discussion. Those who understand martial arts and those who don't.

If you are training for the ring you are training a martial sport. In this situation your 'fighting' and ability to compete within a given rule set is obviously paramount. You will be fighting on a regular basis but your time in a martial sport is limited. Injury and age will put an end to your career.

People train a martial art for any number of reasons. Even if I was training BJJ, learning to fight would only be a very minor part of it. Very few people I train or train with get into fights, yet they turn up day after day, week after week, year after year. Some here on MT have been training for over forty years, many over thirty and many of them probably have never been in a real fight. So why do they keep training? For all sorts of reasons, but you can bet your life, fighting is not the main reason for them training.

we have already hit the " you don't understand the real martial arts"?

 

[Danny T]

Fight

: to use weapons or physical force to try to hurt someone, to defeat an enemy, etc. : to struggle in battle or physical combat
: to be involved in (a battle, struggle, etc.) involving the exchange of physical blows or the use of weapons.

Fighting
would be performing the above.

Conflict
: a struggle for power, property, etc.
: strong disagreement between people, groups, etc., that results in angry argument
: a difference that prevents agreement : disagreement between ideas, feelings, etc.

These definitions are from Webster’s Dictionary

All fighting is conflict but conflict isn’t necessarily fighting.

In that we here have often been in disagreement and have been in conflict as we argued our points we have yet to fight.