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Hanzou
Grandmaster
Compare Goju Ryu to Tae Bo. One has a fighting component, the other doesn't.
How important is fighting in the Martial Arts?
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Compare Goju Ryu to Tae Bo. One has a fighting component, the other doesn't.
To me - Martial Arts are a lot of things, and a lot of those things help more people than I could possibly name, and in more ways than some people might believe. But fighting is the cornerstone, the rock the church is built upon.
In my experience, 90% of everyone who ever walked into a dojo, any dojo in any part of the world, wants to know how to fight. I feel once they are there they learn a lot about themselves and about other things as well. Sometimes that initial want of "learning to fight" takes a back seat, and that's a good thing, to me, anyway.
But it all starts with fighting and honor.
In my experience, 90% of everyone who ever walked into a dojo, any dojo in any part of the world, wants to know how to fight. I feel once they are there they learn a lot about themselves and about other things as well. Sometimes that initial want of "learning to fight" takes a back seat, and that's a good thing, to me, anyway.
But it all starts with fighting and honor.
ballen0351
Sr. Grandmaster
I have no idea what Tae bo is. Isn't it an exercise video?
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Hanzou
Grandmaster
Yeah, its aerobics, not martial arts. My point is that no one in a Tae Bo class is talking about punching or kicking someone in the face. However, that conversation is occurring in the Goju Ryu dojo. In fact, just about everything you do in that dojo is learning how to become more efficient and better at doing damage to someone.
Which is why I find it strange that some don't view "fighting" as an important component of their art.
Agreed.
You can define words however you like. But it makes communication difficult. May I mumble dogface to the banana patch?
That is correct.
Of course I am. If you knew me at all, you'd know that one of my characteristics is that if I am not pretty damned certain about something, I keep my mouth shut, or make it clear that what I am saying is a guess or non-fact-based opinion.
And unlike most, I have actually been attacked by someone actively trying to kill me, so I know how I would respond.
No. My response will be based entirely upon my estimation of the threat posed by the attacker(s). If I think they can be subdued without injury, then that's what I try to do. If I think they can be subdued with minor injuries, then that is what I try to do. If I think they pose a lethal threat, then I'm going to do my very best to kill them first. That's fighting.
Zero
Master Black Belt
Funnily enough but I think some of those Tae Boe types actually think they are doing some form of MA. I had a mate who was doing "body combat" in some commercial gym for a while and I remember him going on about how he would blast some guy with his rear elbow strikes if he gave him any trouble, I almost choked trying not to laugh in my good friend's face.
ballen0351
Sr. Grandmaster
So are you saying Tae bo should be considered a martial art? I think the fact you learn punching and kicking in a fitness class proves there is more to Martial arts then "fighting"
You'd be wrong, though.
One learns iaijutsu to better their fighting with a sword, among other things.
One learns iaido to perfect their personality.
Zero
Master Black Belt
Is there a non-fighting component of goju ryu? I'm still struggling to see where the fighting component ends and something else takes off. Is it not all geared towards fighting? Even the body conditioning aspects? Are they not there to make you better conditioned to fight?
Zero
Master Black Belt
I don't think this was angled at me but if so, I don't see TB as an MA in any way, nor that body combat stuff in the gyms - I see those as a great way of teaching guys and gals how to throw a punch poorly at best and break their wrists!
That said, even with next to no skill, a fight is still a fight.
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Hanzou
Grandmaster
The definition of fighting I gave is the English definition of the word.
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OP
Hanzou
Grandmaster
So how exactly is Iaido a martial art?
I mean, I can perfect my personality by learning a tea ceremony.
I would say yes.
ballen0351
Sr. Grandmaster
What's your definition of a martial art
Exactly!!
I don't have time for a detailed post just now but I have read and reread this thread. It is apparent that there are two positions in this discussion. Those who understand martial arts and those who don't.
If you are training for the ring you are training a martial sport. In this situation your 'fighting' and ability to compete within a given rule set is obviously paramount. You will be fighting on a regular basis but your time in a martial sport is limited. Injury and age will put an end to your career.
People train a martial art for any number of reasons. Even if I was training BJJ, learning to fight would only be a very minor part of it. Very few people I train or train with get into fights, yet they turn up day after day, week after week, year after year. Some here on MT have been training for over forty years, many over thirty and many of them probably have never been in a real fight. So why do they keep training? For all sorts of reasons, but you can bet your life, fighting is not the main reason for them training.
If you are training for the ring you are training a martial sport. In this situation your 'fighting' and ability to compete within a given rule set is obviously paramount. You will be fighting on a regular basis but your time in a martial sport is limited. Injury and age will put an end to your career.
People train a martial art for any number of reasons. Even if I was training BJJ, learning to fight would only be a very minor part of it. Very few people I train or train with get into fights, yet they turn up day after day, week after week, year after year. Some here on MT have been training for over forty years, many over thirty and many of them probably have never been in a real fight. So why do they keep training? For all sorts of reasons, but you can bet your life, fighting is not the main reason for them training.
OP
OP
Hanzou
Grandmaster
The dictionary's definition of Martial Art;
martial art
noun
: any one of several forms of fighting and self-defense (such as karate and judo) that are widely practiced as sports
Martial art - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
drop bear
Sr. Grandmaster
the top argument doesn't work. Running is not fitness because i can get fit swimming?
drop bear
Sr. Grandmaster
Oxford.
Definition of fight in English:
verb (past and past participle fought /fÉĖt/)
1 [no object] Take part in a violent struggle involving the exchange of physical blows or the use of weapons:
drop bear
Sr. Grandmaster
we have already hit the " you don't understand the real martial arts"?
Danny T
Senior Master
Fight
: to use weapons or physical force to try to hurt someone, to defeat an enemy, etc. : to struggle in battle or physical combat
: to be involved in (a battle, struggle, etc.) involving the exchange of physical blows or the use of weapons.
Fighting
would be performing the above.
Conflict
: a struggle for power, property, etc.
: strong disagreement between people, groups, etc., that results in angry argument
: a difference that prevents agreement : disagreement between ideas, feelings, etc.
These definitions are from Websterās Dictionary
All fighting is conflict but conflict isnāt necessarily fighting.
In that we here have often been in disagreement and have been in conflict as we argued our points we have yet to fight.
: to use weapons or physical force to try to hurt someone, to defeat an enemy, etc. : to struggle in battle or physical combat
: to be involved in (a battle, struggle, etc.) involving the exchange of physical blows or the use of weapons.
Fighting
would be performing the above.
Conflict
: a struggle for power, property, etc.
: strong disagreement between people, groups, etc., that results in angry argument
: a difference that prevents agreement : disagreement between ideas, feelings, etc.
These definitions are from Websterās Dictionary
All fighting is conflict but conflict isnāt necessarily fighting.
In that we here have often been in disagreement and have been in conflict as we argued our points we have yet to fight.
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