High Rank and Multiple Arts
- Thread starter MJS
- Start date
Kembudo-Kai Kempoka
Senior Master
I'll speak for myself. I started this stuff as a kid, on my 6th birthday almost 40 years ago. As a kid, the people I thopught were god were the black belts at the school. I got the early impression that proficiency and understanding were represented by the black belt rank; that training wasn't complete, until you got "there". So I started training for it.
I started in kenpo, but also trained in several other styles and systems. Again, I aimed for black. Judo, jujutsu. TKD...each time I started, it was with a finishing line in sight, and I would run like hell until I reached it. If the stryle was particularly interesting, I'd stick around. Learn more; in those events, a side effect of my interest in that particular approach often meant higher rank. But, upon reaching first black, I stopped aiming for rank; instead, I aimed for deeper understanding of something that fascinated my little ADHD mind.
There are a couple of styles/systems I started, but never made it to black in; too hard, too long, or I got what I really wanted and moved on, or an instructor passed away and I didn't want to learn from anyone else, etc. BJJ for example: purple belt. I got it when not many people even knew what BJJ was, and that body of knowledge with concurrant skill development was mroe than enough to serve me on the ground. I still wanted pretty ears, and none of the non-Brazilians I knew who stayed with it to black were still pretty. Plus, rumor was that the Brazilians didn't wanna give black ranks to any Americans...one of the only guys who did give it away did it for a check amount, so a black from him was typically laughed at.
Now, I sit and watch as guys who started after I got my black in my "home" art pass me in rank, and sky-rocket to the top, questionable skills in tow. My interest has switched from wanting more stripes on my belt, to wanting a different type of feather in my cap: A handful of really good students who can carry some good kenpo to the next generation. They may be all unaffiliated, low-ranking black beltss, but let their skills and understanding of the art be exemplary.
My take, anyways.
D.
Atlanta-Kenpo
Blue Belt
Are you guys saying that there are people in EPAK that accept and wear rank that they did not earn? ;-0 WOW!
Maybe some instructors keep passing out rank because they don't have any knowledge to pass out? How else would they keep there students???
But if that is the case then the instructors have to start promoting themselves????
EPAK used to be the gold standard of what a black belt should be and that is gone. These days it seems that the BJJ guys have that standard
Maybe some instructors keep passing out rank because they don't have any knowledge to pass out? How else would they keep there students???
But if that is the case then the instructors have to start promoting themselves????
EPAK used to be the gold standard of what a black belt should be and that is gone. These days it seems that the BJJ guys have that standard
Seabrook
Black Belt
Monadnock
2nd Black Belt
Hahahahahah! Are you kidding? Commercialism has been the ruin of the martial arts.
KENPOJOE
Brown Belt
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']MJS wrote in post #28 regarding my listing of ranksÂ…[/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']“Well, I wasn't going to mention any names, but....yes, this sums it up nicely. [/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']In post#39 he continuesÂ…[/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']I'll start off by saying that I didn't start this thread to bash anyone. I mentioned no names in my initial post, but obviously those who are around the forums, can put two and two together.
Many times, we hear people ask, "How is it possible to train in more than one art?" It is possible and speaking only for myself, I do it because I enjoy the arts that I train in. I don't do it to impress anyone, and I certainly don't do it for the rank. As I said earlier, one of the arts I train in, I have no desire to test for rank. For the amount of time I've put into training in Arnis, one would think that I'd be in the black belt ranks. Not the case though, as I'm still Brown.
So, to someone who never trained before or someone who is very new to the arts, having X number of arts, high rank, pictures of themselves with 20 different Masters, or a wall full of awards and trophies, sure that'll look impressive. However, take someone who has been around a while, show them the same scenario and I'd bet some sort of red flag or question would arise.
Can all this be accomplished? I don't know, but one would have to wonder how one would find the time to do all this, at what point in life one would have to start training to accomplish this. Frankly, I'm not fond of seeing an 8yo 2nd degree black belt, but is it realistic to have them be a 7th at age 18? I'm sure there are time frames for each level. So, that being said, is it realistic or possible to have high rank in 9 arts, and a 1st degree in 5?[/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']In post #43 he responds to people mentioning about my careerÂ…[/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Well, the main point of this thread was to talk about high rank and multiple arts, not ones skill per se, although that does factor in and has factored in during some of the posts. I have not worked with Mr. Rebelo, so I can't comment on his skill. Something I don't like to do, is use a video clip to base my opinion of someones skill, but thats another thread. However, what we do have, is a visual list of rank and arts, so that is what the focus is, IMHO.
Additionally, I'll state again, that my intention was not to single Mr. Rebelo out. I'm sure I can go online and research any number of Martial Artists and their rank. If you read my initial post, I mentioned no names.[/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Hi folks,[/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Dear MJS,[/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']After reading some of your posts, I have a question and an offer for you...[/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']I know of a young man who is an instructor at a studio in Cromwell,Connecticut. I have met him on a few occasions at events throughout New England and have always tried to assist him and discuss various martial arts. Are you him?[/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']If so, I'm surprised that you never asked me personally about my past training and various ranks...[/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Now, here is my offer, you do not live that far away from my studio, please feel free to visit my studio, come by and train with me free for the day,pick any of the systems that I have rank in and i'll be more than happy to go over the material of that system FREE OF CHARGE. To show you what it is like to meet someone who is willing to open their doors to a martial artist that has questions regarding my credentials. Then, please feel free to report your findings to the board. This is not a challenge,rather an open offer to show you that I am who I say I am and so you can understand how someone does acheive the ranks and accolades that I have in my career. BTW, if you are not the person I previously mentioned, I will give you his name so you can contact him and ask his opinion.[/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']I await your reply.[/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']BEGOOD,[/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']KENPOJOE[/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']I await[/FONT]
Danjo
Master Black Belt
Apparently the one thing you DON'T have a high rank in is using the quote function on this forum.
LOL, well, I must say, that was hard to read. Joe, to answer your question. I have never met you. I believe you may be referring to a guy, also named Joe. Tall, slender, blonde hair, trains at Cromwell Martial Arts in Middletown, Ct. I believe I saw a pic online of him, you and a few others at a seminar.
As for your offer...I'd be happy to drive up to your school for a workout. Dinner and drinks are on me afterwards.
Again Joe, my questions were not on your skill, but on the number of high ranks and time frame to get them.
Mike
Gentle Fist
Master Black Belt
I agree with the ugly ears comment. I am a blue in bjj and coming up on purple. Most of the guys purple and higher have at least one dog-chewed ear piece. But it comes with the turf in that art, much like the torn up shoulders and ripped up feet from judo. I prefer judo and bjj over any version of kenpo I have seen just due to the nature of randori and ridiculous time in grade one has to endure. You will never see a 10th dan in judo that is under 80, much less 40....
Kembudo-Kai Kempoka
Senior Master
Ain't it great?
"Karate here" (points to head) "Karate here" (points to heart) "Karate never here" (points to imaginary belt) "Understand, Daniel-san?"
searcher
Senior Master
I appologize ahead of time for chiming in so late and not taking the time to read all of the previous posts.
I would like to raise a question, What about training in two or more styles at one time? An example would be, Karate and Kobudo. It is poretty common to have the two studied simultaneously and rank earned accordingly. I am also not sure what is considered "high" rank by any of you, 4th, 5th, 6th, ....
Not trying to stir it up more than it already is. Just curious.
I would like to raise a question, What about training in two or more styles at one time? An example would be, Karate and Kobudo. It is poretty common to have the two studied simultaneously and rank earned accordingly. I am also not sure what is considered "high" rank by any of you, 4th, 5th, 6th, ....
Not trying to stir it up more than it already is. Just curious.
kidswarrior
Senior Master
Couldn't agree more, Dave. Getting older and gaining experience has its advantages, huh? (Not that you're anywhere near my age
but you're...well, you ain't as young as ya used to be :wink1. We can stop focusing on ourselves and start thinking about investing in our legacy--our 'awards' all have two-legs. Refreshing to hear this from someone else. I know Doc has also said similar things in previous posts.Thanks for chiming in and no, you're not stirring anything up.
I think its already been addressed in some other posts, regarding the number of arts. It seems that the consensus is that being high ranked in 1 or 2 isnt really an issue, but the question of multiple arts with high rank, high rank being defined IMO as being 7th, 8th, 9th degree.
Danjo
Master Black Belt
I'd say anything 5th degree or over would be "High Rank" since that's the level at which most arts recognize "Mastery". Some styles never give out rank above 4th unless you're an instructor.
searcher
Senior Master
Thanks for the clarification guys. I would have to say that if some styles are complimentary that having a high rank would not be any big deal. But I do see many that have BB rank of 5th dan or higher in multiples and I am in agreement with you all. I, myself, have 6th in Chito-ryu and 5th in Okinawan Kobudo as well as lower rank in a few other styles. I am hoping to get the knowledge that would come with higher rank in 2 other styles, but the actual rank is of little importance. My two primary styles go hand in hand as well as some other styles I have had the chance to study. I would love to get my BB in EPAK(the first karate style I studied), but I don't think I am young enough to get a "high" rank. No big deal.
Dr John M La Tourrette
Green Belt
I'm curious to why you think that "wanting more knowledge" is an obsession with high rank?
Would you be happy to be in the first grade for 20 years, going over the same crapola day after day, month after month and year after year?
Did you know that in the same amount of time, 20 years, any average person with a focused goal can go through kindergarden, 6 years of grade school, 3 years of Jr. High School, 3 years of High School, 4 years of college, and earn a Ph.D?
I'm curious to why you think that is not okay?
Some of us have been "banging" around in the martial arts for many, many years. Back in 1950 boxing was the thing. Then in the late 50's and early 60's, Juijitsu and Judo were the thing. Then taekwondo became the thing. Then Kung fu became the thing. Then Arnis became the thing. For many of us Kenpo was the thing. Now cage caca is the thing.
My point being, we lived though the different menus and we partook of the food out there.
And, being 19 with multiple black belts might be really fraudulent.
Being in their sixties and savoring what was there back then is just "they were enterprising".
And even though many people do have multiple ranks, they normally end up teaching one style that they love, and NOT all the styles that they went through in 50 years of training and of having tremendous fun.
Dr. John M. La Tourrette
www.realspeedhitting.com
Hi John,
Quick question for you. Did you read thru the entire thread, or did you just form an opinion off of my first post?
As for your questions...as I have said in other posts in this thread, there is nothing wrong with crosstraining in more than one art. One, two, even three. My point of this thread was training in many arts, and being ranked 7th and 8th degree. I, as well as a few others have asked how this was possible, but I never got an aswer, which doesnt surprise me. I mean really...is it that difficult to answer the question of how one person, considering that I'm sure there're time frames for each rank, can acheive multiple 7th and 8th degrees in a short amount of time.
