Has MMA done harm to martial arts

[Andy Moynihan]

No, it's both.

The "style" came from the concept

In what sense, like that the rules have become standardized and the techniques/strategies used in the events have become standardized enough that it's reasonable to expect that "everyone" knows and is likely to do "X" in "Y" situation?

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

In what sense, like that the rules have become standardized and the techniques/strategies used in the events have become standardized enough that it's reasonable to expect that "everyone" knows and is likely to do "X" in "Y" situation?

I would say yes.

Not a literal everyone, but a specific rule set, regardless of the competition, will have the general effect of keeping the techniques most effective in that set and discarding the ones that are not useful within that rule set, establishing an informally codified pool of techniques.

Different fighters will focus on different parts of this technique set, but in a competition with specific rules, everyone is pulling from the same pool of techniques after a certain point.

Daniel

 

[BrandonLucas]

I don't see MMA hurting TMA...not in regards to the concept, anyway.

However, there are MMA fanboys out there that will trash talk anything under the sun that is not BJJ, Muay Thai, or Boxing. As opposed to taking whatever is valid from as many TMA's as they can, many of these fan boys only rely on what others tell them is effective...they don't really try to find out for themselves.

IMO, it's the fan boys that hurt TMA...and there are fan boys on both sides of the fence. It always stars with one guy bad-mouthing the other guy's style, and about how the training isn't effect for x situation, and bla bla bla...and quite honestly, this has been going on long before MMA became popular at all.

Anyone ever hear of the old "my kung fu is better than your kung fu" argument? Same concept.

I would advise anyone that is interested in any aspect of fighting...whether it's sport or self defense...to cross train in as many different styles as you possibly can. It helps to round you out as a fighter in general.

And basically, that's what MMA is all about...mixing effective techniques from different MA's to allow the person training to become a more effective fighter.

The one big draw back that I see is that people alot of times mix up MMA and sport MMA....and there is a difference. With sport MMA, you are training more for, well, the sport, and the rules that are involved in the sport. With MMA in general, you train in mixed martial arts, with no real specific ruleset, and the goal would be for self defense.

Also, while you do mostly see sport MMA fighters using Muay Thai, BJJ, and Boxing, there are others out there that use other MA's.

Basically, if the fan boys out there would STFU, then I don't really think there would even be an issue.

But that's my .02.

 

[kroh]

IMO, it's the fan boys that hurt TMA...

This is very true on both sides of the coin. Not only do the trash talkers from the MMA stuff think they are all that and a bag of donuts... We also have TMA fanboys that are just as bad. The point of the matter is that we all stand to learn a lot from each other if we just take the blinders off and use an open mind policy.

No one is an immortal bad ***. Your fancy double leg takedown, thigh crushing kick, or irimi nage is useless against a guy with a firearm. Look what happened to Alex Gong back in the day.

Like I said a few posts ago... I think MMA is good for not just martial arts, but for people in general because it is getting people off of the couch and into the gym.

Some one I know who never did martial arts and who would never have done FMA's or Kempo, signed up for an MMA class and loves it. When I asked him how he liked it he said, "I like it becuase it's just lots of effort and no ceremony. I don't know how you guys do it in all that kimono stuff..." Little does he know I bribed the teacher with a coffee to let me fight him next week...

Thanks for the minute,
Walt

 

[MJS]

I don't see MMA hurting TMA...not in regards to the concept, anyway.

However, there are MMA fanboys out there that will trash talk anything under the sun that is not BJJ, Muay Thai, or Boxing. As opposed to taking whatever is valid from as many TMA's as they can, many of these fan boys only rely on what others tell them is effective...they don't really try to find out for themselves.

IMO, it's the fan boys that hurt TMA...and there are fan boys on both sides of the fence. It always stars with one guy bad-mouthing the other guy's style, and about how the training isn't effect for x situation, and bla bla bla...and quite honestly, this has been going on long before MMA became popular at all.

Anyone ever hear of the old "my kung fu is better than your kung fu" argument? Same concept.

I would advise anyone that is interested in any aspect of fighting...whether it's sport or self defense...to cross train in as many different styles as you possibly can. It helps to round you out as a fighter in general.

And basically, that's what MMA is all about...mixing effective techniques from different MA's to allow the person training to become a more effective fighter.

The one big draw back that I see is that people alot of times mix up MMA and sport MMA....and there is a difference. With sport MMA, you are training more for, well, the sport, and the rules that are involved in the sport. With MMA in general, you train in mixed martial arts, with no real specific ruleset, and the goal would be for self defense.

Also, while you do mostly see sport MMA fighters using Muay Thai, BJJ, and Boxing, there are others out there that use other MA's.

Basically, if the fan boys out there would STFU, then I don't really think there would even be an issue.

But that's my .02.

This is very true on both sides of the coin. Not only do the trash talkers from the MMA stuff think they are all that and a bag of donuts... We also have TMA fanboys that are just as bad. The point of the matter is that we all stand to learn a lot from each other if we just take the blinders off and use an open mind policy.

No one is an immortal bad ***. Your fancy double leg takedown, thigh crushing kick, or irimi nage is useless against a guy with a firearm. Look what happened to Alex Gong back in the day.

Like I said a few posts ago... I think MMA is good for not just martial arts, but for people in general because it is getting people off of the couch and into the gym.

Some one I know who never did martial arts and who would never have done FMA's or Kempo, signed up for an MMA class and loves it. When I asked him how he liked it he said, "I like it becuase it's just lots of effort and no ceremony. I don't know how you guys do it in all that kimono stuff..." Little does he know I bribed the teacher with a coffee to let me fight him next week...

Thanks for the minute,
Walt

I agree. 99.9% of the bashing takes place from the nutriders, or keyboard warriors who've probably never set foot on a mat, other than what they dream about. I've said it before....both TMA and MMA can benefit from one another. Of course, the fanboys are not limited to just MMA....they're in every art. I mean, all it takes is just a few minutes on this forum or any other, and I'd bet I could find a half dozen or so people who think that their art is the 'bomb' and nothing comes close to it. Sadly, those people are in the same pool as the nutriders, because they're under this impression that what Sensei, Sifu, or Master says, goes. I beg to differ. And sure, nobody wants to admit shortcomings, but hey, ya know what....its a fact of life. I'm sure if we picked 5 arts, we could find at least one thing that was lacking in a certain area.

 

[Tez3]

http://www.blaenau-gwent.gov.uk/PRINT/12417.htm

Thought you'd find this interesting, young offender finds MMA. He has his first fight on 14th March, it's a positive story. The people who train him are good lads from the valleys! they've said he's training 6 days a week and staying out of trouble.

btw the 'funny' writing beside the English is Welsh.

 

[Andy Moynihan]

So it's like English without vowels. Ok.

 

[Ronin74]

First off, I want to say this was a great thread to start. I have to admit that it's been growing so fast that I stopped reading at about page 4 or 5, and it's already at page 10. That said, here's my two cents.

I don't think MMA has done any lasting harm to martial arts (but I think it might have done some). If anything it added a small dose of reality to otherwise traditional forms of training. When I got my first taste of the empty-hand translations of FMA, my initial reaction was of being impressed because of how the attacks were countered in a very decisive manner. However, our teacher added an extra element into the training (this happened during a worksop/seminar). He had as throwing more "technical" attacks, such as clean crisp punches, as opposed to the haymakers we're taight to defend against, or the punching arm left hanging out so we could practice our counter.

The result? It showed us that in reality, these attacks might not come with just more speed or power, but may have some solid technique behind it. In that vein, I think MMA has actually brought to light in more traditional arts, the importance of being able to defend against more realistic attacks.

Another thing that I think it helped bring to light was conditioning. I don't know if I could ever say enough about how important it is, but in my experience, it was a lot of the more "traditional" schools that didn't stress the importance of having a sound body to go with a sound mind. When I first did Kenpo, our warm-ups consisted of doing a few basic punches to get the body temeperature level up, followed by stretching. Our "strength training" consisted of doing JUST push-ups and sit-ups, and ONLY on sparring days (maybe that's why we never did so well in tournaments... lol.)

When I tried Capoeira, the warm-up consisted of us doing some jogging mixed in with coordination drills, such as skipping while touching your foot to your opposite hand, walking in an arch position, and high knees. Then we stretched. If it was a warm day, we headed out to the track across the street, and got in some slight jogging. Now this was all before the actual class. From what I've heard, the typical regimine for many people involved in MMA consists of similar drills and other forms of conditioning- and this is outside of their training for the ring. So in that sense, MMA has probably helped, more than hurt martial arts.

Now, do I think it's hurt it on some level? I'd have to say yes. I don't agree with the pre-fight trash-talking. Whether it's for the media or to get a psychological advantage, that banter can make martial artists look like chest-beating cavemen. Also the glitz and glamour that inevitably go with MMA (as well as other sports) can sometime blur the goals that more traditional schools set as a standard. When I did Kenpo, so many of the students put so much of an emphasis on winning the tournaments, that you wouldn't see a lot of them in the regular classes, or if you did, they trained with a lackluster effort. As far as MMA in concerned- and this is assuming that anything with the words "martial arts" involved means being dedicated to maintaining a sense of discipline, balance and bettering one's self- it's a sport where the material prizes can compromise integrity.

It's not to say that it's wrong. Personally, I wouldn't mind taking home a nice paycheck to help out the family, for going out there and testing myself. However, I recall an episode of The Ultimate Fighter were a future UFC fighter said one of the reasons he wanted to win was so he could meet women and be famous. And while that is one person's goal, it's still not the aim you'd expect of more traditional arts.

I guess the best analogy I could make is comparing Miyamoto Musashi, and many of the MMA fighters today. Musashi (and this is according to popular legend) sought to master himself by way of perfecting his skills in swordsmanship. He didn't seek to beat other fighters for fame, but rather sought to test his ability against others who were said to have very credible prowess with the sword. Musashi's quest earned him the nickname of "The Sword Saint"- not a nickname he chose, but one given to him by others. Despite all that, Musashi's aim never wavered, which was to seek perfection in his art. In contrast, we have a lot of MMA fighters chasing belts and titles, or wanting to "smash" or go "to the death" with other fighters. The self-perfection of traditional arts vs. the trophies and titles of MMA.

 

[Tez3]

So TMA people never tried to make a living? they don't sign people up to binding contracts, have BB clubs, extra sparring classes, sell their own kit, sell compulsory dvds and books, hold seminars etc to make money? The MMA guys were at least honest in what they wanted. No one is forced to like their aspirations but they are up front about it. they are also working for it not just getting people to put their hands in their pockets.

 

[Ronin74]

So TMA people never tried to make a living? they don't sign people up to binding contracts, have BB clubs, extra sparring classes, sell their own kit, sell compulsory dvds and books, hold seminars etc to make money? The MMA guys were at least honest in what they wanted. No one is forced to like their aspirations but they are up front about it. they are also working for it not just getting people to put their hands in their pockets.

I think that's more in line with the schools and gyms as a business. Traditional martial arts instructors and MMA trainers are in their respective fields to make a career out of training and passing on skills to others, while of course making a living. As far as being honest, that's more subject to the individual. It's like the difference between two students in the same school/gym. One person may want to learn how to protect themself, the other may be trying to start a career in fighting. Nobody is knocking either of those intents.

Now if you mean by a school or gym's integrity, that's unfortunately a widespread problem in both traditional martial arts, and MMA. Often times, money is the goal and not the betterment of the people involved.

Please keep in mind that this is all just my opinion- and in my previous post, you can see I've noted how it's helped and in some cases hurt traditional martial arts- but when martial arts or martial artists (traditional or mixed) start being recoginzed by how brutal a fighter can be, or how flashy the lifestyle is, or the women they can pick-up, it takes away from the less material benefits that come from them, such as committment to an ideal, self-discipline, and the willingness to challenge how well one deals with adversity. That's the harm.

We can go as far as to split hairs here, because both traditional arts and MMA have people who help and hurt the integrity of their respective fields, but that would probably just add about 20 more pages to this thread. It comes down to a what the person values:

• Is it about the journey or the destination?
• Is it about the gains or the gifts?
• Is it about the self-recognition or the recognition from others?
• Is it about being a good martial artist or being a good fighter?

There's nothing wrong with making a living as a fighter (or a trainer). There's nothing wrong with being a world champion. There's nothing wrong with being admired for one's own accomplishments. I've even said in my prior post that I'd love to test myself under those some conditions. I'd see it as the chance to see if what I've learned is applicable to real-time (not necessarily reality-based) hand-to-hand combat. It would be a chance to see if I can only repeat a drill, or can I think on my feet. And if it helped bring in enough money to help my family, that would be a great bonus.

However, when martial arts practitioners make money, power and respect the goals, rather than the results, it can hurt the integrity of the person and the art. In the case of MMA, it's a sport that's received world-wide recognition. As the fastest-growing sport, it would be difficult to find someone who has never heard of it. Even traditional martial artists had to give it respect for helping to bring their arts some recognition. For that very reason, they're under the microscope of scrutiny more than the people who compete in the local karate tournaments.

By that same token, when the participants, who are in the public eye, talk trash and voice more material aspirations to be their goals, it hurts martial arts as a whole. It makes fighters look petty, it feeds the misconception that martial arts is about hurting others, and in some cases, it conveys the message that winning justifies reckless attitudes, such as pre-fight interviews where some- but not all- fighters (champions included) seemingly speak without thinking about what example they could be setting to their fans.

 

[Tez3]

I'd disagree with MMA being well known, in my experience it simply isn't. It's very much a minority sport and I constantly find myself having to explain what it is, even here on MT.
The question is..are sportsmen and women responible for how others behave? Are they there to be role models? MMA fighters are martial artists yes but they are also sports people, athletes. Like it or not 'trash talking' is part of the hype to get bums on seats at fight nights, it's actually rare to find a fighter who actually believes what he says, its part of the sales pitch. It's been common in boxing for years and you'll find it in football and cricket as well. In fact cricket is worse because the trash talk -'sledging' actually happens on the pitch against the opposition.
I don't think the trash talk and the hype actually hurts martial arts, the people to whom it matters know the difference and why it's there, the people to whom it doesn't matter, don't matter anyay!

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

So TMA people never tried to make a living? they don't sign people up to binding contracts, have BB clubs, extra sparring classes, sell their own kit, sell compulsory dvds and books, hold seminars etc to make money?

Say it aint so!

Seriously, this is one of the very legitimate criticisms that is directed at TMA. If this sort of thing is brought to heel as a result of the popularity of MMA, then I will consider MMA to be the savior of TMA.

Not only do I feel that MMA has not harmed martial arts, but I feel that it has brought a large measure of integrity back to it.

The practical functionality of one's training is suddenly in the front of student's minds before they ever go to train. People who regularly watch MMA and decide to go take a martial art know what well executed techniques are supposed to look like and the end result that they're supposed to have.

They know that you don't throw chi-balls, roll around like a monkey, or any of the other nonsense that the general public has long thought to be part and parcel of the martial arts, thanks in great part to movies and television.

And they know that a piece of cloth around your waist is not what makes you good.

Lastly, when people find out that a particular MMA competitor has a background in a TMA, it brings people to that TMA.

In the end, once you cut through the fanboys and commercial hype and media misinformation, TMA and MMA work together, a synergy. Each one feeds and benefits the other.

I don't see where that is at all harmful.

Daniel

 

[BrandonLucas]

I think that's more in line with the schools and gyms as a business. Traditional martial arts instructors and MMA trainers are in their respective fields to make a career out of training and passing on skills to others, while of course making a living. As far as being honest, that's more subject to the individual. It's like the difference between two students in the same school/gym. One person may want to learn how to protect themself, the other may be trying to start a career in fighting. Nobody is knocking either of those intents.

Now if you mean by a school or gym's integrity, that's unfortunately a widespread problem in both traditional martial arts, and MMA. Often times, money is the goal and not the betterment of the people involved.

Please keep in mind that this is all just my opinion- and in my previous post, you can see I've noted how it's helped and in some cases hurt traditional martial arts- but when martial arts or martial artists (traditional or mixed) start being recoginzed by how brutal a fighter can be, or how flashy the lifestyle is, or the women they can pick-up, it takes away from the less material benefits that come from them, such as committment to an ideal, self-discipline, and the willingness to challenge how well one deals with adversity. That's the harm.


We can go as far as to split hairs here, because both traditional arts and MMA have people who help and hurt the integrity of their respective fields, but that would probably just add about 20 more pages to this thread. It comes down to a what the person values:

• Is it about the journey or the destination?
• Is it about the gains or the gifts?
• Is it about the self-recognition or the recognition from others?
• Is it about being a good martial artist or being a good fighter?

There's nothing wrong with making a living as a fighter (or a trainer). There's nothing wrong with being a world champion. There's nothing wrong with being admired for one's own accomplishments. I've even said in my prior post that I'd love to test myself under those some conditions. I'd see it as the chance to see if what I've learned is applicable to real-time (not necessarily reality-based) hand-to-hand combat. It would be a chance to see if I can only repeat a drill, or can I think on my feet. And if it helped bring in enough money to help my family, that would be a great bonus.


However, when martial arts practitioners make money, power and respect the goals, rather than the results, it can hurt the integrity of the person and the art. In the case of MMA, it's a sport that's received world-wide recognition. As the fastest-growing sport, it would be difficult to find someone who has never heard of it. Even traditional martial artists had to give it respect for helping to bring their arts some recognition. For that very reason, they're under the microscope of scrutiny more than the people who compete in the local karate tournaments.

By that same token, when the participants, who are in the public eye, talk trash and voice more material aspirations to be their goals, it hurts martial arts as a whole. It makes fighters look petty, it feeds the misconception that martial arts is about hurting others, and in some cases, it conveys the message that winning justifies reckless attitudes, such as pre-fight interviews where some- but not all- fighters (champions included) seemingly speak without thinking about what example they could be setting to their fans.

The hard part is seperating the individual participants from the respective arts.

What I mean is that you're saying that you don't agree with trash talking from the MMA competitors before a match...and I 100% agree....but not all MMA competitors trash talk before a fight. If you watch alot of the pre-fight interviews, many of the fighters are just giving you what they think the fight is gonig to consist of, what they've worked on, what they know their opponent has worked on, etc. And, the vast majority of the time, the interviews that play out like that usually end with each fighter showing the other a great deal of respect.

A great example of what I'm talking about is the last UFC that came on, when Joe "Daddy" Stevenson lost to Diego Sanchez...Joe Stevenson is a great example of awesome sportsmanship in MMA. He got caught by several clean shots, and on 2 occaisions, actually congratulated Diego during the match for landing the shots. He wasn't trash talking at all in the interview, and just had a great attitude in general about the fight.

The same goes for TMA. I've been to several tournements where my opponent was talking smack when we were being bowed in for the match to begin...which, technically speaking, should have counted off points for them, but for whatever reason, it never happens that way....but the point is that I've also been in several matches where we shook hands before and after the match.

What I'm saying is that it's very hard to seperate the style from the stylist...but to be fair in the discussion, that's what needs to be done.

My take on it from that angle...

Sport MMA, in its current state, tends to focus more on physical rewards, like you were talking about. Belts to be won, titles to be won, purses to be earned, etc. Beyond that, mainstream sport MMA barely focuses on the martial art aspect of the fight at all...orgs like the UFC and Pride. They tend to focus more on the fighters themselves, their back stories, any previous grudges, etc. Now, they will follow their training, but it's not really talking about the martial art side of the training...it's more of the conditioning that's followed.

Just watch an episode of The Ultimate Fighter...the whole problem with the mainstream side of MMA is that to break into the mainstream, the show has to be billed as a "reality show", complete with the drama and bs that always follows that crap. So not much emphasis is placed on the training...rather, it shows "games" for the fighters to compete in, and then shows the fight at the end of the show...all of this between watching a bunch of guys live in a house with nothing to do but train, eat, and sleep.

So, in order for MMA to become mainstream and popular, it had to "sell out" in a sense.

MMA, as a whole, differs from TMA in the same way you were talking about before...the training. MMA concentrates far more on conditioning and actual "realistic" situations than most TMA's do...but that's not to say that all TMA's train differently than MMA. But in most TMA schools in present time, conditioning is not high on the priority list for the cirriculum...and I'm actually a great example of that.

I'm out of shape...granted, I'm working on getting back into shape, and pushing myself in TKD class certainly helps...but if I were training in MMA, I would actually have a seperated regimine on conditioning and fighting...it would be treated as 2 different aspects of training. So, basically, in TKD class, I work on my basics and work on the cirriculum within the art, and try to work on conditioning in my spare time...

So, yeah, just look for the differences in the styles more than the stylists...it's a hard thing to seperate, but it's necessary to get a good look at the differences.

 

[BrandonLucas]

I'd disagree with MMA being well known, in my experience it simply isn't. It's very much a minority sport and I constantly find myself having to explain what it is, even here on MT.
The question is..are sportsmen and women responible for how others behave? Are they there to be role models? MMA fighters are martial artists yes but they are also sports people, athletes. Like it or not 'trash talking' is part of the hype to get bums on seats at fight nights, it's actually rare to find a fighter who actually believes what he says, its part of the sales pitch. It's been common in boxing for years and you'll find it in football and cricket as well. In fact cricket is worse because the trash talk -'sledging' actually happens on the pitch against the opposition.
I don't think the trash talk and the hype actually hurts martial arts, the people to whom it matters know the difference and why it's there, the people to whom it doesn't matter, don't matter anyay!

I guess it matters where you are located as to how well known MMA is...over here, in the US, it's huge...UFC is a household name. But I have noticed how they are trying to have more events on your side of the pond...the only issue I have with that is that they seem to only do that when Michael Bisping is fighting.

I don't understand why they can't just have events over there anyway, and have like a division of UFC for Europe, and then have them all compete like a Super Bowl kind of event...that would be pretty sweet...

And that's my idea, thank you very much...so if any of you see that start to come out...you know how thought of it.

 

[Steve]

.
The question is..are sportsmen and women responible for how others behave? Are they there to be role models?

Okay. Side note here from my dad/grown up side, not from my MMA fanboy side, but we are ALL role models to anyone who knows and respects us. Period. Some of us have smaller spheres of influence than others, but this idea that they are athletes not role models, in any sport, is completely bogus. Athlete or not, we are all role models. The question is, are we good ones or bad ones?

I think that, as anyone's sphere of influence grows, their impact as a role model grows, too. And THAT needs to be addressed. Shows like TUF, the bloody, hyper aggressive, kill 'em all marketing schemes aren't good for kids. This kind of vibe does translate to the fighters who will ultimately affect kids for whom they are role models.

Contrast Melvin Guillard to Lyoto Machida. Or Tito Ortiz to Damian Maia.

It's just like the footballers (that's soccer if you live in a civilized country like the US! ) in... well, the rest of the world. Or here in the States, the basketballers, pro baseball players or whatever. They are all role models, whether they like it or not.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

I'd disagree with MMA being well known, in my experience it simply isn't. It's very much a minority sport and I constantly find myself having to explain what it is, even here on MT.
The question is..are sportsmen and women responible for how others behave? Are they there to be role models?

Yes and no and no.

There is no question that people are influenced by their viewing habbits. People are responsible for how they act, not the folks on television. But at the same time, if you're in the media, you are responsible for you own behavior and for taking into account how you're perceived by those who watch you.

I'm not personally fond of trash talk, and if anything, it will actually keep me out of the seats, though I am probably not the demographic that promoters market to. I can go to an elementary school playground and listen to trashtalk. I can turn on Rush Limbaugh and Howard Stern and hear trashtalk (I don't, but I could).

I expect better from those involved in the martial arts, be it on a competition level or in a traditional setting.

Are sports figures there to be role models?

That isn't why they're personally there, no. But unless you're a parrent, you don't choose to be role model. It is put upon you. Anyone with an audience; celebrities, be they athletes or actors or teachers in a private studio or a regular academic school are all aware of this. The general public is very aware of this.

Anyone who tries to play this card to write off socially unacceptable behavior is either feigning ignorance or is willfully ignorant.

And there are plenty of traditional instructors who would do well to change their own behavior. Lets not forget that it wasn't an MMA competitor who threw a tantrum at the olympics and shoved a judge then kicked the reff in the mouth.

I think that when criticisms of MMA are posed by those of us who practice a TMA, we need to look very carefully at our own habits and methodologies. Oftimes, the very criticisms leveled against MMA by the traditional folks sometimes apply equally, if not more so to TMA.

There are plenty of trash talking, know-it-all self important masters out there, and I daresay that TMA has more trash talkers than MMA.

Daniel

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Okay. Side note here from my dad/grown up side, not from my MMA fanboy side, but we are ALL role models to anyone who knows and respects us. Period. Some of us have smaller spheres of influence than others, but this idea that they are athletes not role models, in any sport, is completely bogus. Athlete or not, we are all role models. The question is, are we good ones or bad ones?

I think that, as anyone's sphere of influence grows, their impact as a role model grows, too. And THAT needs to be addressed. Shows like TUF, the bloody, hyper aggressive, kill 'em all marketing schemes aren't good for kids. This kind of vibe does translate to the fighters who will ultimately affect kids for whom they are role models.

Contrast Melvin Guillard to Lyoto Machida. Or Tito Ortiz to Damian Maia.

It's just like the footballers (that's soccer if you live in a civilized country like the US! ) in... well, the rest of the world. Or here in the States, the basketballers, pro baseball players or whatever. They are all role models, whether they like it or not.

You said it better and with less bandwidth than I did.

Daniel

 

[Tez3]

Good points!
The last UFC here a couple of weeks ago didn't have Bisping fighting and a lot of the American fighters were relatively unknown to us. I believe there's a UFC in Germany coming up, there's also been one in Ireland. UFC is maybe the biggest promotion here but isn't the most popular really. The thing about MMA here is that the local shows do well because they have local fighters on and they have great support. The average ticket price for shows here is £25, within mosts price range but the cheapest seats for UFC are up from £100, plus travelling costs and maybe staying overnight.
A lot of Americans also complained about the reffing and the way fights went which is they way we do it here. Dan Hardy one of ours, received a fair bit of hate email from American fans too.

As I said before most of our fighters while they receive a purse and fight pro rules are amateurs in every other sense of the word, they all have day jobs and train in their spare time. the sport while getting more popular still hasn't the money in it to allow fighters to go full time yet. It's probably one reason we don't have the trash talking very often ( it may be that we can't take it seriously being a nation of born hecklers lol), there's not much hype around. that may change as there's to be a TUF with USA v UK in it. Of course you'll need subtitles as you did with Bisping! I'm not sure how popular it will be here if it's followed the recent pattern.

I think whatever the martial art or sport for that matter there's going to be good and bad role models, in football (ok soccer) David Beckham tries hard and mostly succeeds to be a good one but just yesterday another very well known soccer player was arrested. Hes already been all over the media for cheating on his wife a pop star. This is a sensible link, you should see the tabloids.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7925963.stm

Sad to say he's not the only one, another is in prison for drunk driving and killing two children when his car swerved out of control, I could go on. these guys earn upwards of £82k a week! In MMA here a normal fighter will be lucky to get £300 once every few months when he fights.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Good points!
Sad to say he's not the only one, another is in prison for drunk driving and killing two children when his car swerved out of control, I could go on. these guys earn upwards of £82k a week! In MMA here a normal fighter will be lucky to get £300 once every few months when he fights.

In general, the more stupidly paid a celebrity is, the less in touch they are with reality. They become shielded from the consequences of their actions to far too great a degree.

Daniel

 

[searcher]

A note on the fanboy thing-you guys should see all of the fanboys that come into the gym to workout and they are decked out had-to-toe in Tapout gear.


And not a one of them train in ANY MA or are even pursuing training. These guys walk around like they are the baddest thing since Ali. Hilarious!!!!



At the very elast MMA has helped the economy with sales of gear and videos, let alone the number of people paying $$$$$ for MMA training. I just heard this week that a new MMA gym is opening in a town not to far from my home. But there is a problem. They are hiring a guy to teach JJ, that has little to no formal training in JJ, outside of the time he has been bouncing from school to school. And that he watches a bunch of UFC shows. That is the problem right there.