Good Cop / Bad Cop

[Archangel M]

If you dont pull over when the lights go on and decide to drive on for 3-5 more minutes while you verify with 911 you are not going to enjoy the results.

If a cop is trying to stop you and you keep going for 3-5 MORE MINUTES while you try to get through to 911...then through to the dept then to the cop following you and back again, the cop is going to think that you are fleeing, evading or doing something that will make him nervous. When you do stop he is not going to be treating you like the normal traffic stop. If you happen to LIKE that treatment than to each his own. Reading this as "Im going to enjoy trampling your rights now because I have an excuse" is plain stupid and biased and reading into a statement something that wasnt there due to someones preconceptions about the cops in general and the poster in particular.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Folks, if there's legit grievances, I'm happy to see them, and I'm happy to have the input of the LEO's here to examine them, as they can. I'm happy to see complaints listed, legit issues resolved or the unresolved ones kept public. But if we're going to lash out at each other, it's not going to help things.

As to the jokes, I often find them hilarious. I'm on a number of tech sites that techs tell their dumb customer stories...I've contributed a few too, and think I saw myself in one once. Cops are allowed to tell dumb-perp jokes, and civis dumb cop jokes. As long as we treat each other right when we interact, it's all good, and when we don't that there is a way to resolve it.

Of course, I've also been in court where the couple ahead of me in the judges queue were rather special, the mother being in her pajamas's and carrying he kid, and the deadbeat dad looking like he's paused the engine rebuild to pop in for court (jeans, dirty tee, and greasy ballcap). I've watched the "street cred" folks tell off a cop who was telling them to move along, as they were just "hanging out doing nuthin", in front of the convenience store, blocking the entrance and intimidating people trying to get in to shop. Hell, I'll call the local dept if that was my store to chase the little darlings off.

Easy way to avoid a traffic stop.
- Don't speed.
- Don't drive erratically
- Signal when changing lanes, even if there's no one else on the road
- Make sure all lights are operable
- Make sure your headlights are working, properly aimed, and not in HIGH mode.
- Take the "**** the police" tag off, along with the naked girls, profanity, etc.
- Make sure your muffler is muffling
- Lose the vibrator effect and don't blat your tunes, especially in a residential area at 2AM.
- Make sure your license, tags, registration and any required inspections are current and where they need to be on the car.
- Wear your seat belt, helmet, etc as required by your laws.

I've driven from Buffalo NY to San Antonio TX, St. Louis, MI, and Miami FL, as well as Toronto Canada, and haven't had a problem in over 15 years.

I've been outside a number of times when my one neighbor was getting the 3x daily 4 car response visit (I got a loser neighbor). I've sat on my porch and watched it, couple times a few years back I was doing stick work, and sword work on my front lawn. They dealt with the drunk, and left. I used to do sword kata, sparring, etc in my back yard, never had a problem. (yard is very visible from the street on 2 sides.)

I haven't had my "cops beat me up for no reason" experience yet. Been 38 years so far. Aiming for another 40+ without it.

 

[Carol]

If a cop is trying to stop you and you keep going for 3-5 MORE MINUTES while you try to get through to 911...then through to the dept then to the cop following you and back again, the cop is going to think that you are fleeing, evading or doing something that will make him nervous. When you do stop he is not going to be treating you like the normal traffic stop. If you happen to LIKE that treatment than to each his own. Reading this as "Im going to enjoy trampling your rights now because I have an excuse" is plain stupid and biased and reading into a statement something that wasnt there due to someones preconceptions about the cops in general and the poster in particular.

No way in hell are you guys trampling my rights.

You know who is trampling on my rights? The selfish scumbags that have been out partying all night and think that they're perfectly fine to drive 2 to 3 tons of metal on a public road. Those slimeballs seriously trample on my rights. Go get 'em

 

[MJS]

If a cop is trying to stop you and you keep going for 3-5 MORE MINUTES while you try to get through to 911...then through to the dept then to the cop following you and back again, the cop is going to think that you are fleeing, evading or doing something that will make him nervous. When you do stop he is not going to be treating you like the normal traffic stop. If you happen to LIKE that treatment than to each his own. Reading this as "Im going to enjoy trampling your rights now because I have an excuse" is plain stupid and biased and reading into a statement something that wasnt there due to someones preconceptions about the cops in general and the poster in particular.

For what its worth, I didn't take it the way others did. I took it just the way you said...the cop will think you're trying to flee, trying to hide something, trying to grab a weapon, etc. So of course, a thousand things are going to be running thru his mind and yes, he probably will be pissed once he gets to the car and have a different attitude.

Sigh...why oh why oh why do people insist on bashing the cops and twisting things?

 

[Lynne]

Maybe we need more good cop stories. People always remember the bad but not often the good (regarding any situation it seems).

Personally, I can think of several. In the 1970's, we had racial riots at my high school, replete with weapons such as switchblades, razorblades, and sharpened Afro combs. The racial riots peaked the last week of the school year during all four years of my high school years, 1971 - 1975. It even came down to black male students waiting for white girls in the ladies' restrooms to assault them. Students would stay home for two or three days and would return to school when it was "safer" to do so. Police officers always escorted me to homeroom in the morning. They were actually entering unknown territory. They had guns and billy clubs but could have been easily outnumbered.

In a second situation, I was abducted and gangraped when I was 15. I only survived by my wits. I knew two of the rapists from high school, the other 6 I did not know. I told them that I had no idea who they were and because they were black that I could not identify them. They dropped me off not far from where I lived. My mother called the police. One of the officers insisted on driving me to the hospital while my mother was too embarrased for me to go to the hospital. My being raped was a family disgrace (no, they are not Muslim - just backwards people). He argued with my mother, insisting that I needed medical care (I did - there was nothing left of me, so-to-speak - the emergency room doctor began crying as soon as he saw what had been done to me). My mother never came to the hospital. The officer waited for me and drove me back home. He didn't say much as I cried but he held my hand. To be honest, he was the only one who gave me any support. My father was a deranged alcoholic and wanted to know what I had done to cause me to be raped (may he rest in hell). I have carried guilt since then.

Lastly, my nephew is a police officer in Portsmouth, Virginia. I sometimes think that it's a miracle that he's still alive. He said he'd rather go to a burglary call than a traffic accident though - he dies a little inside every time he sees a teenagers/younger adults who have died in a car accident. He started eating out of stress and has ballooned up to 225 pounds at 5'10".

 

[Archangel M]

God Bless You. You have had a tough go.

As to your nephew, everybody handles the stresses of the job differently. If he ever seriously thinks that things are getting too bad there are people and services that can help. He should be encouraged to go.

 

[Lynne]

God Bless You. You have had a tough go.

As to your nephew, everybody handles the stresses of the job differently. If he ever seriously thinks that things are getting too bad there are people and services that can help. He should be encouraged to go.

Thank you.

I bet my nephew is suffering more than anyone knows. I'll give him a call and try to gently suggest he talk to someone. I worry about his cardiovascular health, especially if he has to chase someone down. I guess if you gain too much weight, they don't necessarily give you desk work. (He's not SWAT.)

 

[Lynne]

Just for the record, I don't remember how everyone was sentenced. The case went to trial in juvenile court. I will say I remember the defense attorney for the assailants. He was a total jerk and tried to twist my words into things about unusual sex acts. I had no idea what he was talking about. There were about 100 lawyers in the room while my parents and relatives were not allowed to be present. The lawyers all stood up at one point and began yelling at the defense attorney. That gave me some relief...some relief while having to recant the whole thing from beginning to end.

Unfortunately, I could not identify 6 of the men. And guess what? They were 21 or over. I do recall that two of them went to prison somehow. The two I identified did go to city jail - one for an assault charge because he had threatened to kill me with a knife. Someone must have confessed to witnessing him threaten me or he admitted it. I remember that the prosecutor had me falsely identify two people. They'd been smoking dope and supposedly I would have gone to juvenile detention for being in the car while they were smoking dope. The defense attorney wanted to make it look like we were having a party. The emergency room doctor gave a testimony which I was not allowed to hear. But I'm certain he told them everything. I could not be a lawyer. My conscience would kill me. Or I'd lose my conscience. Have you ever heard of such crap?

 

[Archangel M]

Dont get me going on lawyers...who knows what sort of atrocities against your rights I may be accused of if I start down that path.

 

[Lynne]

I'd like to apologize for diverting the thread a bit. Just wanted to make the point that cops are human like everyone else, prone to mistakes, temper and also goodness.

 

[Drac]

Thank you.

I bet my nephew is suffering more than anyone knows. I'll give him a call and try to gently suggest he talk to someone. I worry about his cardiovascular health, especially if he has to chase someone down. I guess if you gain too much weight, they don't necessarily give you desk work. (He's not SWAT.)

You are correct about the desk job..I just don't chase them for long periods anymore, but I have always been good at short bursts of speed..Chased down an real POS with another officer I cannot go into much detail, but we caught the creep..We are both smokers and a little overweight...

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Lawyers is another topic...I just agree with the Romans....

 

[Lynne]

You are correct about the desk job..I just don't chase them for long periods anymore, but I have always been good at short bursts of speed..Chased down an real POS with another officer I cannot go into much detail without that punk KP or Cryo jumping in, but we caught the creep..We are both smokers and a little overweight...

My husband is not a cop but that's exactly what he did about 16 years ago. We were driving along a highway in Renton, Washington. Some punks threw a rock and it hit the windshield on the passenger side where I was sitting. "POW!" My daughter was in the back in her safety seat.

My husband reacted by doing a quick u-turn which scared the heck out of me. We were in his 1979 Chrysler 300 (same chassis as a Dodge magnum). Tires were squalling and then he floored it. He managed to catch sight of the two boys, both about 12/13. We ended up at a little park where people were racing radio-controlled cars. My husband jumped out of the car, ran through the crowd and ran down one of the punks. He paced himself and then sprinted when the kid got tired. He hauled the kid to a grocery store and called the police. By that time, some other people had called 911 because they thought we were trying to abduct/or abuse some kid.

 

[Drac]

Lawyers is another topic...I just agree with the Romans....

OK, I'll bite..What is the Romans attitude???

 

[Bob Hubbard]

OK, I'll bite..What is the Romans attitude???

They make the lions happy.....but somewhat gassy.

 

[Drac]

They make the lions happy.....but somewhat gassy.

:lfao::lol::lol::lfao:

 

[KP.]

Now I do not want to honk anyone off.. But WHY is such a big flippin problem to show your ID if an officer asks for it???? If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to worry about...Officers remember those that comply with a simple request as we meet so few..My being polite saved my butt many times before I became a cop....

The whole "if you're not guilty of something why worry about it" mentality is precisely what leads to more and more repressive government.

How about this: it's the government's job to prove guilt, not the citizen's job to prove innocence. We the people have the right to anonymity from the government. We have the right to private actions and private speech.

I joined the military largely to get money to go to school, but while there I came to believe I was involved in a righteous fight for human rights against dictatorial communist powers -- and we rightly were bemused by those countries that denied their citizens basic rights, such as walking around without identifying themselves to the government and having to ask permission to live their lives.

I recognize that draconian laws make the police's job of catching the bad guys easier. But making the government's job easier is never worth the costs that come from sacrificing our rights.

A notion that has sadly fallen out of favor as people more and more succumb to the twin beliefs that there is no harm in giving up freedoms if one can be under the illusion of safety and if one has done no wrong.

 

[MJS]

The whole "if you're not guilty of something why worry about it" mentality is precisely what leads to more and more repressive government.

How about this: it's the government's job to prove guilt, not the citizen's job to prove innocence. We the people have the right to anonymity from the government. We have the right to private actions and private speech.

I joined the military largely to get money to go to school, but while there I came to believe I was involved in a righteous fight for human rights against dictatorial communist powers -- and we rightly were bemused by those countries that denied their citizens basic rights, such as walking around without identifying themselves to the government and having to ask permission to live their lives.

I recognize that draconian laws make the police's job of catching the bad guys easier. But making the government's job easier is never worth the costs that come from sacrificing our rights.

A notion that has sadly fallen out of favor as people more and more succumb to the twin beliefs that there is no harm in giving up freedoms if one can be under the illusion of safety and if one has done no wrong.

So....during questioning, a person has his/her hands in their pockets and is acting nervous. The LEO asks them to remove their hands. So, your line of thinking is that if the person complies, that they're bowing down to the govt? Actually, by doing what the cop wants, it'll ease their mind, and the other person will run less of a risk of getting taken to the ground or a gun pulled on them. Why not take your hands out? Hiding something? Got a blade in your pocket you're just itching to pull out? Drugs maybe?

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Now, when dealing with things, being polite will almost always keep things calmer than they would if you got heated and let your temper show.

Doesn't mean it will make it all perfect.

When things do legitimately go south, and "He was rude" isn't really south to me, take careful note of the situation, get badge numbers and names if possible, get car numbers if possible, note the exact time (5ish isn't good enough), the date, the conditions of the weather, your exact location (smith st isn't enough).

Write it all down, use the voice record feature of your phone/mp3 player if it has it, etc. Take pictures if you can. The more information you have, the better your chances are of getting results.

Then, report it. Do not turn over orginals and only copies of your notes. They can vanish, accidentially or on purpose. Copies suffice until it's court time.

Contact a lawyer. A good one, who specializes in civil matters. Your tax attorney, your family court attorney or the guy representing you in your car accident case most likely ain't the guy you want.

Follow up with the department, notate day/time and who you speak with each time.

Inquire on when you can expect to hear back.

Follow up.
If you feel after a reasonable amount of time that you are getting no where, go over their heads. Higher up the food chain. Mayors office, County Exec, Senator and Representative, local papers, etc.

In the few really corrupt areas, be prepared for retaliation. It happens. Cleaning out a truly bad precinct can take years, headache and hard work. Part of that task includes cleaning up the situation that rotted the precinct, which means pushing the gangs and thugs out. It's usually the real rat-hole areas that have the highest concentration of "bad cops", many who are not really bad, but frustrated that the bad guys out number them, out gun them and seem to catch all the breaks when brought in.

The only way to effect change is to become the catalyst of that change yourself. If you do nothing, then expect nothing to change. If you believe change is impossible, then you are already beaten.

I'll keep posting cop abuse stories that catch my eye, and I'll keep posting good cop success stories when they catch my eye. The first, because we need to know, and the second because we need to recognize and applaud that which we want more of.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

The whole "if you're not guilty of something why worry about it" mentality is precisely what leads to more and more repressive government.

How about this: it's the government's job to prove guilt, not the citizen's job to prove innocence. We the people have the right to anonymity from the government. We have the right to private actions and private speech.

I joined the military largely to get money to go to school, but while there I came to believe I was involved in a righteous fight for human rights against dictatorial communist powers -- and we rightly were bemused by those countries that denied their citizens basic rights, such as walking around without identifying themselves to the government and having to ask permission to live their lives.

I recognize that draconian laws make the police's job of catching the bad guys easier. But making the government's job easier is never worth the costs that come from sacrificing our rights.

A notion that has sadly fallen out of favor as people more and more succumb to the twin beliefs that there is no harm in giving up freedoms if one can be under the illusion of safety and if one has done no wrong.

And a reading of many of my arguments here and in other threads will show I agree with you.

Innocent until proven guilty. Land of the Free. Etc. I've argued that the whole country is supposed to be a free speach zone, not just this little fenced off area down the block and away from the candidates.

But, and here's the but. If you act suspicious, you get treated as such. In some areas, cops are so used to dealing with hostility, that they are automatically "on", until you turn them "off".

Troops in Iraq aren't exactly Mirandaizing when they stop people there. That whole suicide bomber thing. While we don't have that problem here thankfully, in some areas, the chance of a minor lawful order like "move along" or "walk on the sidewalk, not in the street", can and has been answered with attitude, profanity, and even threat.

I get stopped, my first goal is to show the cop I mean no threat. Once done, we can have a more productive and less painful encounter.

Hey LEO's. Quick question. Ever been out walking in uniform and see someone catch a look at you, then take off as fast as they can? Seem supicious?