Glancing Salute,

[kevin kilroe]

when you do the vertical elbow strike, try to torque into an upward elbow strike.

 

[XtremeJ_AKKI]

Originally posted by Kirk
What I don't understand is why you don't pull the guy's head
down and smash his face into your knee.

Think of the smaller guys ripping through this technique. For them, Forward Projection is going to make a LOT of difference in their application. To go with the trap, palm hell, then pull their head down would not only present a ' tangled ' angle to strike through ( due to the unpredictability of his left arm ), but would considerably slow the technique down while killing the Forward Projection. With the FP gone, the smaller guy would have to rely purely on strength while attempting to get the opponent's head down that far, which is a serious Kenpo frown.

Hope that helped a bit.

 

[matthewgreenland]

Good thread-

I see merit to the different takes. I prefer an upward clearing elbow strike. Why? Following the knee, I am usually in tight, hence the short weapon. I then rip, grind,rake, and drive my upward elbow through in a clearing fashion. In a way, this motion is similar to the downward raking mid-knuckle in Bow of Compulsion, except the elbow travels up in Glancing, and the mid-knuckle travels down in Bow.

 

[D.Cobb]

Originally posted by jfarnsworth

I agree 100% that everyone should be learning the technique exactly the same. I don't care if it's this country or another one that does Parkers Kenpo.:asian:

But what if it wasn't taught the same way? I would lay money, that Mr. Parker didn't teach it to Mr. Tatum the same way he taught it to Mr. Connatser, or Mr. Trejo.

I'm sure that you are very well aware of the what if and formulation phase of kenpo. This just comes from practice and tailoring to what you feel comfortable with once you establish the base curriculum that should be set forth as a standard worldwide.

But this part shouldn't be taught until the student can grasp at least a limited understanding of the principles and concepts inherent in the technique.

I'm also not trying to offend you. I'm giving my view points only.
Salute,
Jason Farnsworth

Same here.

--Dave

:asian:

 

[kenpo3631]

Originally posted by kevin kilroe
when you do the vertical elbow strike, try to torque into an upward elbow strike.

It is actually an upward elbow strike. Think about the mechanics. If you drive you forearm into the opponent's elbow his body will naturally go away from you (hard to demonstrate over the net), however if you deliver the upward elbow strike to the opponent's elbow it will cause him to go on his toes thus cancelling out the opponent's backup weapon, thus softening up your opponent for therest of the technique.

Just my observation:asian:

 

[jfarnsworth]

Originally posted by D.Cobb
But what if it wasn't taught the same way? I would lay money, that Mr. Parker didn't teach it to Mr. Tatum the same way he taught it to Mr. Connatser, or Mr. Trejo.

Ah, but you see, I'm talking about being taught the same way as a "base technique". How you do it and I do the tech. Doesn't really matter to me after we have learned the "base" technique.

But this part shouldn't be taught until the student can grasp at least a limited understanding of the principles and concepts inherent in the technique.

Sure, I'll agree with that. :asian:

 

[Mike]

we learn the base technique as ending with the knee strike/cover out. The extension that we learn if fairly long.

 

[ProfessorKenpo]

Originally posted by kenpo3631
It is actually an upward elbow strike. Think about the mechanics. If you drive you forearm into the opponent's elbow his body will naturally go away from you (hard to demonstrate over the net), however if you deliver the upward elbow strike to the opponent's elbow it will cause him to go on his toes thus cancelling out the opponent's backup weapon, thus softening up your opponent for therest of the technique.

Just my observation:asian:

It's actually written out as a horizontal elbow but the vertical will work if you're not doing the extension. The horizontal fits perfectly into the extension, I guess that's why we do it that way.

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

 

[Michael Billings]

It is a horizontal elbow, in my material, that could be altered if necessary to a vertical upward.

The knee strike and subsequent buckle should move the opponent backwards, not just bend their knees, so if your dummy is not reacting, you have to execute the upward vertical elbow. I promise that my knee strike moves them through the Depth dimension and does not JUST bend them over, it also may land on the quadracept of the right leg, checking their body back while streightening the leg. It still creates distance.

You may want to play with this to see how it actually works.

Oss

 

[Jayson Barley]

2. Pivot to your left (to 12 o'clock) into a left forward bow as your left hand pins opponent's right arm to his body and your right thrusting heel of palm strikes to opponent's jaw.

If you are executing a thrusting heel palm strike to the jaw how are you going to get your hand around behind thier neck for a crane

I learned this technique with a glancing heel palm strike to the right side of the opponents jaw.

Not trying to offend just understand how you are performing the technique.

Jayson Barley

 

[Michael Billings]

Glance off the jaw with the fingers pointed outward. Your hand ends up on the left side of their face.

Execute a right inward 5 finger pivoting claw utilizing the heel of the hand as the pivot point. (as in windshield wipers)

Then you are able to hook the back of the neck from the correct side of the neck as you understand it.

Oss!

 

[Doc]

Originally posted by Michael Billings
Glance off the jaw with the fingers pointed outward. Your hand ends up on the left side of their face.

Execute a right inward 5 finger pivoting claw utilizing the heel of the hand as the pivot point. (as in windshield wipers)

Then you are able to hook the back of the neck from the correct side of the neck as you understand it.

Oss!

No No No. Sleepy but I'll be back when I wake up from this survailence

 

[Doc]

Originally posted by jfarnsworth
I agree 100% that everyone should be learning the technique exactly the same. I don't care if it's this country or another one that does Parkers Kenpo.:asian:

That's what you'll find at ALL of our schools. Everyone is taught to execute the same effective way to establish a firm base of the art through black black belt. When guys get together from different schols it doesn't matter because they all have the same understanding. A technique line allows you to see the technique over and over by different people all doingthe same thing. Of course higher ranks do it better but all the same.

 

[Michael Billings]

Please gimme mo' on Glancing Salute. I was trying to give a common base from which to work from. I think he was doing a very early version. The one I got was from Mr. P in a seminar. Then concurred with the written curriculum I received later on disk.

Left over Right

 

[Doc]

Originally posted by Michael Billings
Please gimme mo' on Glancing Salute. I was trying to give a common base from which to work from. I think he was doing a very early version. The one I got was from Mr. P in a seminar. Then concurred with the written curriculum I received later on disk.

Left over Right

Mr. Billings, this is essentially how I was taught by the Kahuna, the Boss, the Master Blaster, the Magician of Motion, Grandmaster Flash, Manoloa, Parker. This is a paste from our curriculum CourseBook #102. I'll answer any questions you may have as best I can but you know it is designed as a guide with an instructor in front of you. I do have a sneeky feeling though you smart guys will have some fun with it. Speed is not an issue after you survive the initial assault, only control of your opponent is important.

8. GLANCING SALUTE:

ATTACK: 12:00. Take two steps. First with your left as you approach and then step forward with your right foot and forcibly push with your right hand across to their right shoulder. Be sure the push is “committed” transferring your weight to your front foot in anticipation of overcoming the significant resistance of their body mass.

1. Standing naturally, when your opponent pushes your right shoulder with his right hand. SURVIVE THE INITIAL ASSAULT ™ (The force of his push will turn your right shoulder, misalign your hips and cause your right foot to step rearward to regain your balance. When your right foot plants, PAM and pivot your hips forcibly into a modified forward bow toward 3:00 to absorb his energy.) Simultaneously, your right thumb edge of your clenched fists wrist, PINS your opponent's right wrist to the right side of your chest (FITTING PRINCIPLE) as you SLAP-CHECK BAM your left thigh on the side. Maintain your head and chin pointing at your attacker at all times.

STUDY PARTNER: This action will cause all of your weight to be transferred to your forward foot and your right shoulder will be forced slightly to the your left beyond the RADIAL LINE REFERENCE.

2. Immediately after the above action QUICKTIME execute a left inward vertical forearm strike at a slight upward angle slight above and against the joint of your opponent's right elbow to cause a hyperextension.

STUDY PARTNER: Done properly this action will cause you to stand straight up and on your toes and pull your rear shoulder further beyond the RADIAL LINE REFERENCE, canceling your width.

PAUSE

3. Maintain CONTACT MANIPULATION with your left arm and BRUSH upward to turn the arm slightly. Then pivot to your left toward 12 o'clock and step forward and PAM into a left forward bow with your left hand striking down on his upper forearm with a hammer-fist, and continues to a PIN of your opponent's right arm to your body, and ….

STUDY PARTNER: This action will force you to bend forward and jerk your head to your left.

3. …. execute a right thrusting heel palm strike to his right center of jaw, fingers pointed to your left and allow your hand to RICOCHET past your opponent's head rubbing and maintaining CONTACT MANIPULATION with your forearm. Maintain your fingers pointed to the left and tension in your heel-palm.

STUDY PARTNER: This action will cause you to straighten your back and force your head up and back slightly, but your arm is still pinned not allowing your lower body to move back. Additionally the strike to the side of the jaw should cause PMD and significantly “stun” you.

STOP PAUSE

4. Then HOOK/STRIKE the back of his neck, and control your opponent's height by ANCHORING your right elbow in front and against his chest, while executing a right knee strike to your opponent's lower centerline. Do not allow your opponent to “bend forward. CONTACT MANIPULATE his depth with your forearm.

STUDY PARTNER: This action will definitely cause you to take at least one step backwards with your right foot because you are misaligned and will attempt to recover your balance.

5. Maintain CONTACT MANIPULATION and plant your right foot forward into a right neutral bow with a GRAVITY PAM.

PAUSE

6. Maintaining CONTACT MANIPULATION, Push-drag reverse slightly forcing his head to move toward you. Then CONTROL RELEASE and push-drag forward with a right inward elbow strike to your opponent's head or centerline creating a GUIDED COLLISION.

STUDY PARTNER: This action will cause you to move up and back and you should collapse to the ground from misalignment, PMD, and momentum.

7. Right front crossover, covering out toward 7:30 and PAM your right foot.

Timing & Breathing Signature: 1 P 2,3 P 45 P 6 C

 

[Doc]

Originally posted by Michael Billings
Please gimme mo' on Glancing Salute. I was trying to give a common base from which to work from. I think he was doing a very early version. The one I got was from Mr. P in a seminar. Then concurred with the written curriculum I received later on disk.

Left over Right

Mr. Billings, this is essentially how I was taught by the Kahuna, the Boss, the Master Blaster, the Magician of Motion, Grandmaster Flash, Manoloa, Parker. This is a paste from our curriculum CourseBook #102 and is the Default (base) Technique Application. I'll answer any questions you may have as best I can but you know it is designed as a guide with an instructor in front of you. I do have a sneeky feeling though you smart guys will have some fun with it. Speed is not an issue after you survive the initial assault, only control of your opponent is important.

8. GLANCING SALUTE:

ATTACK: 12:00. Take two steps. First with your left as you approach and then step forward with your right foot and forcibly push with your right hand across to their right shoulder. Be sure the push is “committed” transferring your weight to your front foot in anticipation of overcoming the significant resistance of their body mass.

1. Standing naturally, when your opponent pushes your right shoulder with his right hand. SURVIVE THE INITIAL ASSAULT ™ (The force of his push will turn your right shoulder, misalign your hips and cause your right foot to step rearward to regain your balance. When your right foot plants, PAM and pivot your hips forcibly into a modified forward bow toward 3:00 to absorb his energy.) Simultaneously, your right thumb edge of your clenched fists wrist, PINS your opponent's right wrist to the right side of your chest (FITTING PRINCIPLE) as you SLAP-CHECK BAM your left thigh on the side. Maintain your head and chin pointing at your attacker at all times.

STUDY PARTNER: This action will cause all of your weight to be transferred to your forward foot and your right shoulder will be forced slightly to the your left beyond the RADIAL LINE REFERENCE.

2. Immediately after the above action QUICKTIME execute a left inward vertical forearm strike at a slight upward angle slight above and against the joint of your opponent's right elbow to cause a hyperextension.

STUDY PARTNER: Done properly this action will cause you to stand straight up and on your toes and pull your rear shoulder further beyond the RADIAL LINE REFERENCE, canceling your width.

PAUSE

3. Maintain CONTACT MANIPULATION with your left arm and BRUSH upward to turn the arm slightly. Then pivot to your left toward 12 o'clock and step forward and PAM into a left forward bow with your left hand striking down on his upper forearm with a hammer-fist, and continues to a PIN of your opponent's right arm to your body, and ….

STUDY PARTNER: This action will force you to bend forward and jerk your head to your left.

3. …. execute a right thrusting heel palm strike to his right center of jaw, fingers pointed to your left and allow your hand to RICOCHET past your opponent's head rubbing and maintaining CONTACT MANIPULATION with your forearm. Maintain your fingers pointed to the left and tension in your heel-palm.

STUDY PARTNER: This action will cause you to straighten your back and force your head up and back slightly, but your arm is still pinned not allowing your lower body to move back. Additionally the strike to the side of the jaw should cause PMD and significantly “stun” you.

STOP PAUSE

4. Then HOOK/STRIKE the back of his neck, and control your opponent's height by ANCHORING your right elbow in front and against his chest, while executing a right knee strike to your opponent's lower centerline. Do not allow your opponent to “bend forward. CONTACT MANIPULATE his depth with your forearm.

STUDY PARTNER: This action will definitely cause you to take at least one step backwards with your right foot because you are misaligned and will attempt to recover your balance.

5. Maintain CONTACT MANIPULATION and plant your right foot forward into a right neutral bow with a GRAVITY PAM.

PAUSE

6. Maintaining CONTACT MANIPULATION, Push-drag reverse slightly forcing his head to move toward you. Then CONTROL RELEASE and push-drag forward with a right inward elbow strike to your opponent's head or centerline creating a GUIDED COLLISION.

STUDY PARTNER: This action will cause you to move up and back and you should collapse to the ground from misalignment, PMD, and momentum.

7. Right front crossover, covering out toward 7:30 and PAM your right foot.

Timing & Breathing Signature: 1 P 2,3 P 45 P 6 C

 

[Dominic Jones]

Hi Dr. Chapél

I have acouple of questions: :asian:

Why does the attacker step forward with the left before the right foot? Would the defence change if the attacker just stepped through with their right foot?

On the first move of the defence, from a standing postion, I step through with my left foot into a left neutral bow (pivoting my shoulders to 'ride' the attack). Do you step back because the attack is too strong? I find that the stronger the attack, the quicker the turning of my shoulders is, thus feeding my step forward?

Cheers Dominic

 

[Doc]

Originally posted by Dominic Jones
Hi Dr. Chapél

I have acouple of questions: :asian:

Why does the attacker step forward with the left before the right foot? Would the defence change if the attacker just stepped through with their right foot?

No, but this type of assault is more likely than a push from a static position. Confrontations are dynamic and some are usually forseeable to the aware, but not always. The question has to be asked "if a person was going to come over to you to push you, how would they get there?" Answer: They'd walk and once they were within range they step and push with significant body momentum. If they simply stepped forward the technique would just be easier to perform.

On the first move of the defence, from a standing postion, I step through with my left foot into a left neutral bow (pivoting my shoulders to 'ride' the attack). Do you step back because the attack is too strong? I find that the stronger the attack, the quicker the turning of my shoulders is, thus feeding my step forward?

The attack is a push not an "attempted push" that you can "ride." If you can step forward than you're moving prematurely and anticipating.

Try practicing with your eyes closed to simulate a surprise push you didn't see coming. That will change your mind about stepping forward.

 

[jfarnsworth]

Originally posted by Doc
That's what you'll find at ALL of our schools. Everyone is taught to execute the same effective way to establish a firm base of the art through black black belt. When guys get together from different schols it doesn't matter because they all have the same understanding. A technique line allows you to see the technique over and over by different people all doingthe same thing. Of course higher ranks do it better but all the same.

And this will stop most of all of the bichering. :asian: :asian: :asian:

 

[Dominic Jones]

Thank you Dr Chapel

Originally posted by Doc
The attack is a push not an "attempted push" that you can "ride." If you can step forward than you're moving prematurely and anticipating.

Yes, I was anticipating and moving early. But isn`t this essential?

I can see in "Glancing Salute" that if you do not anticipate and move early then, to survive the initial assault , you should step back.

However if you don`t move early enougth and get hit by a punch, it could be difficult to survive that attack. For example in "Sleeper", the attack is a right punch. The defence involves stepping up to a left neutral bow similiarly to "Glancing Salute"

Do we teach our students to improve their reaction time so that they can anticipate and step towards the attack. Or do you consider this to be unrealistic?

Cheers Dominic :asian: