Free Your Mind or ... There is NO Spoon

[Jenna]

Hello all my MT friends I am glad to say hello as you pass me on your ascent to enlightenment

A prosaic but simple Q: has anyone got any personal experience of hypnosis or deep meditation or out of body experiences or conscious dreaming or any of the many other vehicles that have specifically allowed you for a time to liberate your mind from the shackles and bonds of your normal everyday consciousness? Has anyone done any of these things or had that “no-spoon” experience through other means? um.... class-B?? Hmmm.. of course not.

But seriously I would like to know how did it affect your perception especially afterwards? Was there any noticeable alteration afterwards AT ALL or just while it lasted?

Any thoughts are greatly appreciated!

Oh and btw do not worry if there really is no spoon.. if there is no spoon just use your hands and clean up your mucky fingers afterwards, ha!

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

 

[Jenna]

Well OK I guess maybe this all sounds very kooky like Listen Luv.. just a FILM! but I have had some hypnosis and I have found that it is not only a wonderful tool for controlling and compartmentalising the very bad stuff but it can also be a wonderfully mind expanding experience and the practitioner I visited uses a technique whereby you wear a sort of comfortable visor which produces soothing but weirdly psychadelic flashing coloured lights (eyes closed) and a barrage of softly subliminal sounds through which he speaks the instructions in the headphones and as I begin to drift out of my normal corporeal “meat suit” which is the most picturesque description from Egg I am suddenly aware of what a HUGE space I am in and yeah I need no reminding by certain people that my head is empty MOST times, ha! but I mean to be suddenly in a space in which there is an acknowledgement of the possibility to do anything to be anywhere at any time to have time with anyone and to think freer and without such a great overhead of ego is quite a revelation to me and so when I come around I still cannot fly evidently, ha! but I am awake to the possibility and power in belief in a particular thing is all I will say

And one other methodology I have managed to reach this odd ethereal state and it is through lack of proper sleep yes! .. no spoon?? maybe.. or maybe just no clear eyes for seeing it ha! I have not managed to secure more than 3Hrs sleep for any one day of the last two weeks but I am fortunate because it is extremely interesting the kinds of ideas which present themselves and ideas which connect together that would not otherwise sit well beside each other and this is very enlightening in its way and I have been trying to write down these things though it would seem to lose everything in that translation out to words and I am sorry that this all makes so little sense!

Thank you

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

 

[Kacey]

When I was at a TKD camp last summer, the senior master taught a session on transcendental meditation, which included a practice session. During the meditation session I was extremely relaxed, aware of my surroundings but calmly uninterested. Afterwards, I was very alert, but without any tension or stress. I don't know if that's what you mean, but it's what I've got. Without him guiding the meditation, however, I've not been able to reach that truly detached state since.

 

[tshadowchaser]

I have done some meitation and found myslef relaxed and my mind much calmer after.
As for Hypnosis I haven't hypnotised anyone in about 25 years or so. I can remember that all would say thy felt less troubled an more at ease after

I have managed to reach an odd ethereal state once or twice in my life and have been asked days later by other people if I was in such and such a place or if I had contacted them on the date in question, but that all i will say in an open forum about these things for they tended to happen on a personal level ( nothing sexual just personal)

 

[Martial Tucker]

Hello all my MT friends I am glad to say hello as you pass me on your ascent to enlightenment

A prosaic but simple Q: has anyone got any personal experience of hypnosis or deep meditation or out of body experiences or conscious dreaming or any of the many other vehicles that have specifically allowed you for a time to liberate your mind from the shackles and bonds of your normal everyday consciousness? Has anyone done any of these things or had that “no-spoon” experience through other means? um.... class-B?? Hmmm.. of course not.

But seriously I would like to know how did it affect your perception especially afterwards? Was there any noticeable alteration afterwards AT ALL or just while it lasted?

Any thoughts are greatly appreciated!

Oh and btw do not worry if there really is no spoon.. if there is no spoon just use your hands and clean up your mucky fingers afterwards, ha!

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

Well, hello Jen...we meet again in another thread!

I have done a lot of reading on all of this stuff, and I find it all fascinating.
As for hypnosis, most of my reading has focused on past-life regressions. I've also read many books on out-of-body experiences, but nothing like that has ever happened to me. As for the meditation and conscious dreaming, I refer to conscious dreaming as "lucid dreaming", and I have cultivated the ability to do it daily almost at will. I developed the ability in an earlier career when I spent a lot of time on airplanes. It's a really weird experience. I see things almost like they're projected on a screen in front of me, and I know I'm more or less asleep, but I'm also aware of what's going on in the room while I'm in this state. Bottom line is, I can do this for 20-30 minutes on my couch, and when I'm done I feel like I've slept 8 hours. Again, I find all of this stuff fascinating to discuss, and I have many books to recommend on each topic if you are interested.

 

[Jenna]

When I was at a TKD camp last summer, the senior master taught a session on transcendental meditation, which included a practice session. During the meditation session I was extremely relaxed, aware of my surroundings but calmly uninterested. Afterwards, I was very alert, but without any tension or stress. I don't know if that's what you mean, but it's what I've got. Without him guiding the meditation, however, I've not been able to reach that truly detached state since.

Hey Kacey I know there are techniques to "switch on" these meditative or contemplative states instantly and akin to the click of the fingers that the stage acts revel in but I wonder do you think it is possible to be in this state you described ALL the time or is this something we would do almost exclusively as a sort of recreational thing? Is it at all possible to LIVE in this state?

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

 

[Jenna]

I have done some meitation and found myslef relaxed and my mind much calmer after.
As for Hypnosis I haven't hypnotised anyone in about 25 years or so. I can remember that all would say thy felt less troubled an more at ease after

I have managed to reach an odd ethereal state once or twice in my life and have been asked days later by other people if I was in such and such a place or if I had contacted them on the date in question, but that all i will say in an open forum about these things for they tended to happen on a personal level ( nothing sexual just personal)

Hey S my learned friend and so you actually performed the hypnosis?? Wow that is something special and self hypnosis is a wonderful thing to attain and one of my favourite techniques is to envision the ten stairs and moving down very slowly pausing at each step onto an extremely comfortable fluffy mattress and each step telling myself I am more relaxed and paying particular attention to the muscles from my toes right up to my eyes this is odd as the feeling of being in your own body dissipates and is very liberating and is especially useful to me as someone who is beaten a little with asthma I find I have a place to hide from it through a certain hypnosis

and from your other comment which sounds very intriguing and but I will not pry but thank you for sharing the possibility of these different states which is encouraging to know they are not imaginings but genuine experiences of freeing the mind

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

 

[Jenna]

Well, hello Jen...we meet again in another thread!

I have done a lot of reading on all of this stuff, and I find it all fascinating.
As for hypnosis, most of my reading has focused on past-life regressions. I've also read many books on out-of-body experiences, but nothing like that has ever happened to me. As for the meditation and conscious dreaming, I refer to conscious dreaming as "lucid dreaming", and I have cultivated the ability to do it daily almost at will. I developed the ability in an earlier career when I spent a lot of time on airplanes. It's a really weird experience. I see things almost like they're projected on a screen in front of me, and I know I'm more or less asleep, but I'm also aware of what's going on in the room while I'm in this state. Bottom line is, I can do this for 20-30 minutes on my couch, and when I'm done I feel like I've slept 8 hours. Again, I find all of this stuff fascinating to discuss, and I have many books to recommend on each topic if you are interested.

Wow MT this is such a cool thing and to learn of your conscious and lucid dreams is a special thing and which I have a friend who claims he could do this and I got the technique and was doing up all the recording dreams and encoding them and got to the stage I was wakening consciously through effort after every dream which was fun but I never cracked it and got to the stage where I said righto this here is a dream .. and so you will tell me are you able to fly?? and I know there are techniques to keep you "awake" when you are in the dream and which do you use if I can ask and there is the spinning and the looking at your hands and wow! I am carried away in this because I have SO many things I would do if I could awaken in my dreams and I was reading HP Lovecraft and the The Dream-Quest of the Unknown Kadath story and this for me was of a certainty inspired by a conscious dream because it has that quality to it I think and I know of writers who have used this to generate characters and scenarios

And I have a very particular thing that i would do if i got to awaken in a dream and if I ever manage it i will share my bountiful rewards with you is all i will say ha!

Thank you for this I am cheered very greatly by it all and has made me think on a few things which I could ask for nothing more!!

oh and yes please do share your reading list if you can or PM me if that is preferable

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

 

[Kacey]

Hey Kacey I know there are techniques to "switch on" these meditative or contemplative states instantly and akin to the click of the fingers that the stage acts revel in but I wonder do you think it is possible to be in this state you described ALL the time or is this something we would do almost exclusively as a sort of recreational thing? Is it at all possible to LIVE in this state?

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

From what he said at the time - yes, it can be switched on and off at will, but it takes a lot of practice, attaining the proper mindset. I don't know about living in that state, because one of the things I remember was that it seemed timeless; when he was done it had been about 25 minutes, but it only seemed like 2 or 3, so I'm not sure how that would work to live in it - but I was wonderfully relaxed afterwards, and I want to look into it more in that mythical future when I have time to do such things.

 

[Jenna]

From what he said at the time - yes, it can be switched on and off at will, but it takes a lot of practice, attaining the proper mindset. I don't know about living in that state, because one of the things I remember was that it seemed timeless; when he was done it had been about 25 minutes, but it only seemed like 2 or 3, so I'm not sure how that would work to live in it - but I was wonderfully relaxed afterwards, and I want to look into it more in that mythical future when I have time to do such things.

Hey Kacey thank you for your contribution I wonder from what I am told if maybe few have the stomach for such a discussion but I am glad for your input and yes timelessness is not the thing for the mundanities of life which are metered by the clock .. I suppose to usurp these chronological dictates we are forced to live under would need for us to be some sort of yogi adepts or something and probably living up on mountaintops or under mystical hanging gardens and not for 9-5 office folk.. pity

Thank you again for this.. and maybe more? if you could tell me WHY you think this sort of deep meditation is a good thing? Purely for relaxation or are there any other benefits you might envisage for when you eventually do catch up to that mythical future time!!

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

 

[pstarr]

I think this kind of technique is valuable in that it can assist us in better understanding WHO and WHAT we are and the nature of true REALITY (as opposed to what we think it is).

At the same time, it would be dangerous to live continuously in this state. Much as it is such an enjoyable thing, for now we dwell in our 3-dimensional "meat suits" (I like that phrase) and our 3-D world and we have to be mindful of what's going on around us and what we're doing-

 

[Jenna]

I think this kind of technique is valuable in that it can assist us in better understanding WHO and WHAT we are and the nature of true REALITY (as opposed to what we think it is).

At the same time, it would be dangerous to live continuously in this state. Much as it is such an enjoyable thing, for now we dwell in our 3-dimensional "meat suits" (I like that phrase) and our 3-D world and we have to be mindful of what's going on around us and what we're doing-

Hey P well I understand this surely I do and I will make two points

1). do you think those monastic types.. Franciscan or Buddhist or any of the many variants male and female across the globe who have whole and complete devotion to their faith would you consider them to live in this state whereby when they are not performing duties pertinent to the order or to their community they are spending large proportions of their time in concerted meditation.. do you think these people come close to attaining this more "advanced" state of awareness?

and 2). Can you envision any sort of society within the realms of possibility in which we could live and inhabit these states of higher consciousness for the most part or is to suggest such a thing a mere fancy?

Thank you for your input

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

 

[Martial Tucker]

Thank you for this I am cheered very greatly by it all and has made me think on a few things which I could ask for nothing more!!

oh and yes please do share your reading list if you can or PM me if that is preferable

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

Jen, it took me a long time to be able to do this almost at will. Getting to the point where you have actual control over WHAT you are dreaming is a whole
different level that I am still working on, and meanwhile I am accumulating quite a list of things I want to do when I get there!

All of this stuff may sound strange to some people, but as you mentioned, anything that makes us think a bit more is almost always a good thing.

I'll PM you a few books that I think you'd find interesting.

 

[Martial Tucker]

I think this kind of technique is valuable in that it can assist us in better understanding WHO and WHAT we are and the nature of true REALITY (as opposed to what we think it is).

At the same time, it would be dangerous to live continuously in this state. Much as it is such an enjoyable thing, for now we dwell in our 3-dimensional "meat suits" (I like that phrase) and our 3-D world and we have to be mindful of what's going on around us and what we're doing-

I completely agree with both statements....

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

Jen:

For some initial readings, I would suggest a starting point of Quest for the Overself, by Paul Brunton, and also Search in Secret India by Brunton (as an introduction sand some self-inquiry context around the "who am I, really?" meditation technique posited by Ramana Mahrshi); Journeys out of the Body, by Robert Monroe; a couple of the Gateway tapes or CD's by Robert Monroe (particularly, Intro to Focus 1, 2 and 10, and Freeflow). Expansive states of awareness, when sought for their own sake, typically will short0circuit a system. Leaves a lot of folks with bad tatses in their meat mouths, so to speak. By seeking in the context of personal development, and learning a bit about what that path may entail as a lifelong endeavor, keeps it from being a class-B trip through the minefields of the mind. Without context, content has no meaning. I would recommend you pick up some context before moving too much futher into content. I've been at this "altered states pseudo-mystic-spirituality" thing for a long enough spell, that I've seen some folks fry from it, like from a bad acid trip, but there were never any drugs.

The act of inquiry is likely to eventually either bring you face to face with some of the mental skeletons in your closet, or just activate some dormant ideas that may be ego-dystonic enough to you to create some discomfort...leading to neuroses, if you lack a way of contextualizing these emergent energies. Hence, the need for a path, or something like it, that encompasses these upcomings as simply part of change and growth, and learns you a bit on how to process them. Of course, it may not; there are some lucky few who never meet their shadow, and so never hit this dark night of the soul. But generally, ...

And if you really want to stretch your froo...Ecstacy is a New Frequency, by Chris Griscom (some parts were simply awesome; others I'm still not sure I buy).

Good luck, and keep us posted on your progress.

Regards,

Dave.

PS -- feel free to e-mail me if you like.

 

[Martial Tucker]

Jen:

For some initial readings, I would suggest a starting point of Quest for the Overself, by Paul Brunton, and also Search in Secret India by Brunton (as an introduction sand some self-inquiry context around the "who am I, really?" meditation technique posited by Ramana Mahrshi); Journeys out of the Body, by Robert Monroe; a couple of the Gateway tapes or CD's by Robert Monroe (particularly, Intro to Focus 1, 2 and 10, and Freeflow). Expansive states of awareness, when sought for their own sake, typically will short0circuit a system. Leaves a lot of folks with bad tatses in their meat mouths, so to speak. By seeking in the context of personal development, and learning a bit about what that path may entail as a lifelong endeavor, keeps it from being a class-B trip through the minefields of the mind. Without context, content has no meaning. I would recommend you pick up some context before moving too much futher into content. I've been at this "altered states pseudo-mystic-spirituality" thing for a long enough spell, that I've seen some folks fry from it, like from a bad acid trip, but there were never any drugs.

The act of inquiry is likely to eventually either bring you face to face with some of the mental skeletons in your closet, or just activate some dormant ideas that may be ego-dystonic enough to you to create some discomfort...leading to neuroses, if you lack a way of contextualizing these emergent energies. Hence, the need for a path, or something like it, that encompasses these upcomings as simply part of change and growth, and learns you a bit on how to process them. Of course, it may not; there are some lucky few who never meet their shadow, and so never hit this dark night of the soul. But generally, ...

And if you really want to stretch your froo...Ecstacy is a New Frequency, by Chris Griscom (some parts were simply awesome; others I'm still not sure I buy).

Good luck, and keep us posted on your progress.

Regards,

Dave.

PS -- feel free to e-mail me if you like.

Holy Cow, did this post hit a nerve with me (in a good way). The vast majority of people I encounter that have an interest in metaphysics and/or philosophy have never heard of Paul Brunton. How familiar are you with his writings? Just curious...my uncle and Brunton (referred to as P.B. by his friends) were very good friends.

As an aside, I found Monroe's books to be a difficult read. I recommend "Eyes of an Angel", by Paul Elder. He spent quite a bit of time with Monroe, but his book is much more structured and interesting, IMHO.

My current recommendation for a book to really stretch you is:

The Disappearance of the Universe, by Gary Renard.

 

[Jenna]

Jen:

For some initial readings, I would suggest a starting point of Quest for the Overself, by Paul Brunton, and also Search in Secret India by Brunton (as an introduction sand some self-inquiry context around the "who am I, really?" meditation technique posited by Ramana Mahrshi); Journeys out of the Body, by Robert Monroe; a couple of the Gateway tapes or CD's by Robert Monroe (particularly, Intro to Focus 1, 2 and 10, and Freeflow). Expansive states of awareness, when sought for their own sake, typically will short0circuit a system. Leaves a lot of folks with bad tatses in their meat mouths, so to speak. By seeking in the context of personal development, and learning a bit about what that path may entail as a lifelong endeavor, keeps it from being a class-B trip through the minefields of the mind. Without context, content has no meaning. I would recommend you pick up some context before moving too much futher into content. I've been at this "altered states pseudo-mystic-spirituality" thing for a long enough spell, that I've seen some folks fry from it, like from a bad acid trip, but there were never any drugs.

The act of inquiry is likely to eventually either bring you face to face with some of the mental skeletons in your closet, or just activate some dormant ideas that may be ego-dystonic enough to you to create some discomfort...leading to neuroses, if you lack a way of contextualizing these emergent energies. Hence, the need for a path, or something like it, that encompasses these upcomings as simply part of change and growth, and learns you a bit on how to process them. Of course, it may not; there are some lucky few who never meet their shadow, and so never hit this dark night of the soul. But generally, ...

And if you really want to stretch your froo...Ecstacy is a New Frequency, by Chris Griscom (some parts were simply awesome; others I'm still not sure I buy).

Good luck, and keep us posted on your progress.

Regards,

Dave.

PS -- feel free to e-mail me if you like.

Hey Dave man this is absolutely amazing the extent of your knowledge in these things and I am humbled to hear how you speak of it all.. thank you for your recommendations for reading and I will put them on my amazon list absolutely.. and I have no experience of class-_ anything I will say but I am certainly aware from where I have been myself of the minefields or is that minDfields and also of the potential to exhume mental skeletons which are far more visceral and apt to put their hands around my throat I would say than the common-or-garden lab variety however I have worked with techniques depending upon the situation to either lock the box or to unlatch it and confront them not on my own I might add but with some very clever assistance..

And I will not pry but ask rhetorically wondering and thinking that you must have had a deal of experience also to know of such things that can raise their head above the parapit and say hello I am here underneath..

This is amazing and thank you for sharing and maybe some more?? I would wonder on what level perception itself is altered and how far it is POSSIBLE to alter perception by partaking of the likes of the deep meditations and conscious dreams?? and is there any crossover from the meditation etc to the waking state?? Any thoughts from someone as learned as yourself would obviously be appreciated

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

Holy Cow, did this post hit a nerve with me (in a good way). The vast majority of people I encounter that have an interest in metaphysics and/or philosophy have never heard of Paul Brunton. How familiar are you with his writings? Just curious...my uncle and Brunton (referred to as P.B. by his friends) were very good friends.

As an aside, I found Monroe's books to be a difficult read. I recommend "Eyes of an Angel", by Paul Elder. He spent quite a bit of time with Monroe, but his book is much more structured and interesting, IMHO.

My current recommendation for a book to really stretch you is:

The Disappearance of the Universe, by Gary Renard.

I had the Search (i.e., in secret india; in secret tibet; etc.) and Overself series' (Quest, Wisdom) and Perspectives prior to his family stopping publication on some items, then restructuring and republishing (some of) it in the Reflections series. Monroes book is a task, but where I was mainly trying to get her to go to were the tapes; great way to introduce searchers to altered states in controlled environments, with the option of going further if they like it (focus 10 was the OOB level for the books, initially...he later bumped some up to Focus 20 and 30). One of the easiest ways to go without a physical teacher or guide ) ).

No matter where else I roam in my (as PB might say) "philosophical" studies, I always seem to return back to Brunton for a reiteration of purpose and context behind the Quest. Particularly as samadhi's leave residues, there's a temptation to identify with the experience and the residual fallouts, and lose sight of the real purpose of the quest.

Good to know I'm not the only philosopher/mystic on the board.

Regards,

Dave

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

And I will not pry but ask rhetorically wondering and thinking that you must have had a deal of

1. experience also to know of such things that can raise their head above the parapit and say hello I am here underneath..

2. on what level perception itself is altered and

3. how far it is POSSIBLE to alter perception by partaking of the likes of the deep meditations and conscious dreams??

4. and is there any crossover from the meditation etc to the waking state??

1. Ramana Maharsi is a Indian guru from unconventional background (didn't learn from a long line of spiritualists; just parked his bum in an abandoned ashram and started contemplating his navel, so to speak) with an interesting way of shortening the time to "insight", and the experience of soul. "Self-Inquiry" is simply to look within, and ask, "Who/What am I, really?". As ideas cross your mind in answer to this internally directed question, explore them a bit for what they offer, then push them aside like a curtain and direct the question deeper still, with a "Yeah, that's part of who I am, but there's more than that. Who am I, really?". Do this each night and each morning for a dedicated span of time.

First reason most folks quit: Some of the answers are not kind. Perhaps you'll see the less-nice aspects of self, and not want to look at them, preferring not to regard yourself as "one of those" kinds of people (selfish, rude, vengeful, whatever). So they stop asking. Or, they hope to delve deeper without having to turn the less-favorable items over in their minds, and get stuck. As if conscioussness sez, "Until you deal with what I'm revealing to you, you may not proceed further into the maze".

Second reason people quit: Eventually, when you've shed identification with the core issues inquiry reveals, the only answer left calls back to you...Soul. If you are not courageous enough to meet the spark of the divine that's puppeteering your meat bag, this can be frightful. It can also be ecstatic, which can be more scary for some than terror or truth.

2. Perception alters drastically, and nothing looks the same again. Perception is a matter of comparison and contrasting...once you have "seen" the other side, or met the godling that dwells within, you are both in awe, and humbled; new contrasts to be made, and meanings to be drawn. Compassion takes on new meaning, as you see the emerging divine looking back at you from the eyes of others. Very wierd if you're both embroiled in some silly drama together.

3. Don't know; ain't at the end yet. Seers and sages through time have left fanciful words describing landmarks along the way. I've read many, thinking I "got" what they were referring to, only to revisit them years later after an expansive experience, realizing I had no clue, even though my eyes saw the words and my mind "thought" it made a connection. Good book for this: How to Know God, by Deepak Chopra. Surveys different spiritual developmental levels, and visits some of the writings through the ages with the levels of truth expressed/evident at each level. Beware this trap: "Spiritual Materialism". ("I'm so cool, because I'm here, and not there; look how far I've come")

4. Absolutely, but be careful what you ask for (in researching enlightenment experiences, some folks actually fall into long, deep depressions...can you imagine reaching out to touch the mind of God, then having to return to work on Monday, business as usual?). When all is said and done, you still have to be able to function in the Matrix. Buddha comments on this: before enlightenment, one must chop wood and carry water. And after enlightenment? One must chop wood, and carry water. Recognizing the wood and water as props in a classroom changes the perspective you have around the task, but you do the task nevertheless.

Have a fun trip,

Dave

 

[tshadowchaser]

I have not met 3 other people in the last 30 years who have read Brunton the books you mentioned i read years ago they where suggested by one of my professors

Quest for the Overself, by Paul Brunton, and also Search in Secret India by Brunton