Fighting a boxer in Wing Chun

[guy b.]

Then why did you offer this link when asked why we don't see footage of WSLVT people doing all of their sparring and testing when you say it is so important to the system? How is an "open style tournament" an answer to that question?

A tournament is a form of organised sparring. Regular sparring is essential to prepare for such a tournament. I am sorry that you haven't been provided with everything you demand on a plate- but I think you will find that many MA groups don't always post film of their private sparring on the internet. Mostly what you will find is organised contest like a tournament, teaching and seminar clips, or purpose made promotional footage.

Do you post private sparring footage of yourself for example?

 

[LFJ]

Then why did you offer this link when asked why we don't see footage of WSLVT people doing all of their sparring and testing when you say it is so important to the system? How is an "open style tournament" an answer to that question?

It wasn't an answer to that question.

It was said that our lineage doesn't organize sparring with other schools and film it.

Not only is that not true, and clips have been posted before, but I provided an example of one WSLVT school that not only organizes sparring with other schools, but even hosts an annual open style tournament.

What you see in the video you posted is people of various styles competing. It's not VT take on all comers. It's any style vs any style. That's what "open style tournament" means.

I don't care that you aren't witnessing VT sparring or tournament preparations on video.

If you want to see what it's like, go visit them, register for the next tournament, or just be a spectator. Otherwise don't worry about what others are doing.

 

[LFJ]

It's fair to say that without the "bridge" strategy, there is no CMA.

I train a CMA and have a "bridge" strategy, but it's nothing to do with sensing and manipulating arms.

There are only 3 hand skills that exist in all MA systems on this planet:

1. block with one arm and punch with another arm at the same time.
2. switch hands - you punch, your opponent block, you use the other hand to re-block his blocking arm, free your attacking arm, and attack again.
3. block and punch back by using the same arm.
4. dodge and punch back (no bridge strategy here).

CMA uses all 4 strategies. Boxing mainly use strategy 4.

I did none of the above and still hit my opponent while protecting myself against his attacks.

Am I training an extraterrestrial MA, or have you perhaps not encountered all MA systems on this planet?

 

[LFJ]

- you arm contact on your opponent's arm,
- sense his intention,
- borrow his force,
- redirect his arm away from your attacking path,
- use his leading arm to jam his back arm,
- move in, and
- attack him

Yeeaaah, that ain't gonna happen unless you're both moving in slow motion or your opponent is not moving at all.

Fantasy tactics like this fly out the window when speed is cranked up and a barrage of serious strikes are incoming.

There's simply no time to be sensing intention and manipulating arms. That kind of stuff works in demos only.

 

[drop bear]

I don't mind that. It combines the principals of the chun with the practicalitys of actual fighting.

Oh. And notice how when guys are getting knocked out. The power generation changes straight back to using hips and footwork.

 

[KPM]

This is not the understanding of "bridge" in the VT system.

Wrong. That is not YOUR understanding of the "bridge" in YOUR Wing Chun. Here again we have from Guy what sounds like a definitive statement denouncing someone's understanding of a Wing Chun concept and declaring that it is not the "VT system." I will say again....Guy, you post in a certain way that is very arrogant and condescending. Either you lack insight and just don't realize it, or you just don't care and enjoy being a prxck.

 

[KPM]

A tournament is a form of organised sparring. Regular sparring is essential to prepare for such a tournament. I am sorry that you haven't been provided with everything you demand on a plate- but I think you will find that many MA groups don't always post film of their private sparring on the internet. Mostly what you will find is organised contest like a tournament, teaching and seminar clips, or purpose made promotional footage.

Do you post private sparring footage of yourself for example?

I am not the one making declarations for an entire lineage of Wing Chun. There are quite a few people doing WSLVT, is there not? If sparring is such a huge component of training in WSLVT as you and LFJ say, then why don't we see footage of it? Just on a statistical basis in our modern "selfie" world you would think such videos would start showing up on-line. But all we ever see is the typical Chi Sau videos. Is that phase of training in WSLVT a big secret? Or are you and LFJ just over-stating your assertions?

 

[KPM]

It wasn't an answer to that question. It was said that our lineage doesn't organize sparring with other schools and film it.

---Ah! I see now you are right. I made the comment about sparring videos and Phobius took that and made the comment about organized sparring competitions with other schools. My apologies!

 

[LFJ]

If sparring is such a huge component of training in WSLVT as you and LFJ say, then why don't we see footage of it?

We do. You have. You've commented favorably on it. Not sure why you're pretending otherwise.

We have seen 0 from your lineage. So again, I'm not sure why you're barking up this tree. Unless sparring is not part of your training at all?

 

[guy b.]

Wrong. That is not YOUR understanding of the "bridge" in YOUR Wing Chun

I don't have my own personal wing chun. I train in YM VT. In that system the understanding described by Kung Fu Wang is not part of the system. If in doubt then a quick check of the conceptual base of the system will put us on the right track. I don't know if this understanding is in other Chinese MA systems- it may well be. I think you train a different system for example- maybe your understanding of bridging is different?

 

[guy b.]

If sparring is such a huge component of training in WSLVT as you and LFJ say, then why don't we see footage of it?

Because people don't generally release private sparring footage as much as they release promotional clips? A quick check of youtube should show you this. However some sparring clips have been posted on this forum and I believe you saw them, didn't you?

Where can I check out private sparring clips from your martial arts group?

 

[wckf92]

There are only 3 hand skills that exist in all MA systems on this planet:

1. block with one arm and punch with another arm at the same time.
2. switch hands - you punch, your opponent block, you use the other hand to re-block his blocking arm, free your attacking arm, and attack again.
3. block and punch back by using the same arm.
4. dodge and punch back (no bridge strategy here).

CMA uses all 4 strategies. Boxing mainly use strategy 4.

Think you forgot one(?)..
#5 the hand that hits also cancels

 

[LFJ]

Think you forgot one(?)..
#5 the hand that hits also cancels

That's extraterrestrial. Doesn't count.

 

[Phobius]

I don't have my own personal wing chun. I train in YM VT.

Before people get a fit again. You train WSLPBVT. Unless anyone of us trained directly under YM we should not say we train YM VT/WT.

Noone has been able to unite a common ground what YM VT is. Problem is YM never bothered to define it. He left it all to his students to define their own. As such YM VT/WT probably does not exist. No matter if you are sure to train exactly as he taught or not. Leave that statement to his direct student and honor you sifu or the system instead.

 

[wckf92]

Before people get a fit again. You train WSLPBVT. Unless anyone of us trained directly under YM we should not say we train YM VT/WT.

Well stated!!!!

 

[KPM]

I don't have my own personal wing chun. I train in YM VT. In that system the understanding described by Kung Fu Wang is not part of the system. If in doubt then a quick check of the conceptual base of the system will put us on the right track. I don't know if this understanding is in other Chinese MA systems- it may well be. I think you train a different system for example- maybe your understanding of bridging is different?

I trained in Augustine Fong's system and I most definitely learned the idea of "bridge" as being contact and not a gap. LFJ was the first person I had ever seen define "bridge" as an opening or gap. It most certainly is not the standard understanding through-out Ip Man Wing Chun that I have seen. Is it the standard understanding in WSLVT?

 

[LFJ]

LFJ was the first person I had ever seen define "bridge" as an opening or gap.

Attack line is what I said, not opening or gap. It may well already be open, but we're not just lookin around and picking shots.

 

[guy b.]

I most definitely learned the idea of "bridge" as being contact and not a gap.

And yet this idea is easily found to be contradictory in terms of other bits of the system, i.e. a problem exists with this understanding of bridging

Is it the standard understanding in WSLVT

It is the only understanding that makes sense and avoids contradiction

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Think you forgot one(?)..
#5 the hand that hits also cancels

Are you talking about "block and punch back by using the same arm" as method 3? Could you give an example?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I train a CMA and have a "bridge" strategy, but it's nothing to do with sensing and manipulating arms.

I did none of the above and still hit my opponent while protecting myself against his attacks.

Am I training an extraterrestrial MA, or have you perhaps not encountered all MA systems on this planet?

So you think "bridge" strategy has nothing to do with "sensing and manipulating arms".

I have tried to find the 5th method besides the following 4 methods from any MA system on this planet, but I have not found it yet. I will be grateful if you can tell me the 5th one if it exists.

1. block and punch at the same time - This is the WC most famous strategy 连消带打(Lian Xiao Dai Da) such as to use left Tang Shou to block your opponent's punch and right hand punch on his face.

2. switch hands - you punch, your opponent block, you use the other hand 拍手(Pai Shou) to re-block his blocking arm (follow his blocking direction, sensing and manipulating arms), free your attacking arm, and attack again.

3. block and punch back by using the same arm - Your opponent punch, you use right 扶手(Fu Shou) to block his punch. Redirect his punching arm to pass your face (sensing and manipulating arms). You then punch back with the same right hand.

4. dodge and punch back - Your opponent hook punch at your head, you dodge your head under his hook, you then uppercut his chin.