Extremely Frustrated

[bluemtn]

I started in July '06, so a little over a year. I attend class twice a week, and, I'm sorry to say, don't have much time for training on my own in between classes.

Well, you have only been doing SPM for just over a year... I found (and still do at some points find) it hard to do certain techniques I'm taught. I just do what's natural for me. For example, I recently took up Aikido. You can only imagine how hard it is for me to not just automatically do an arm bar, a hard block (TKD seeping through), or some sweep... My point is, it's something that'll not be easy to work through, but be persistent! Can you start off kind of slow, just so you can get the feel of the moves that you need to execute?

 

[Jade Tigress]

This style is very difficult to learn for anyone, so I'm not discouraged, just frustrated because I want to be good NOW...lol. But I continue to improve, so that's progress.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I want to be good NOW...lol.

That's normal.

But I continue to improve, so that's progress.

That's CMA

 

[Jeff Harvey]

Two things, you need to practice with a partner who is commiting to the attack, and you need to narrow down the techniques you are practicing. Instead of trying to pull a technique out of 100 techs, focus on 15 that vary in what attack the technique is used against, then at least you'll have built enough muscle memory on those techniques to launch into them without thinking.

 

[Jade Tigress]

Two things, you need to practice with a partner who is commiting to the attack, and you need to narrow down the techniques you are practicing. Instead of trying to pull a technique out of 100 techs, focus on 15 that vary in what attack the technique is used against, then at least you'll have built enough muscle memory on those techniques to launch into them without thinking.

Thanks Jeff. It's totally me, my partners are committed to the attack. It's just this mental block that I have. It's not automatic for me yet so I have to go slow and think about it. Then I overthink it...I think. It does bother me though, that I can't seem to overcome it. At least not yet. *sigh*

 

[Xue Sheng]

Then I overthink it...I think. It does bother me though, that I can't seem to overcome it.

And then one day you will be in class and going through all of the same stuff and when class is over and you are leavening you will realize it all worked. And you did not realize this earlier because you were not thinking about it at all.... just training.

 

[Sukerkin]

Good job I read back a few posts before I blundered in, otherwise I would've redundantly repeated what others have already said :lol:.

I was going to ask how long you'd been training in the style and that perhaps you were holding yourself to too rigid a standard too soon but, as noted, a quick profile peek and post read showed that that ground'd already been covered.

All I can elaborate with is that I've enthusiastically been training in MJER for about five years now, have a nice Nidan certificate on the wall and still get things wrong . It's an endless path, so, even when you can't see any improvements happening, keep 'polishing the mirror'.

 

[tshadowchaser]

ok I skipped 5 pages of answers but I must ask
How many fights have you ever been in? how many times have you had to use your knowledge be it martial art or street to get out of a situation?
Most guys have been a few fights sometime in their life and some how that experience carries over to there training even if they do not know it.
Keep studying girl, it will come in time.

 

[tellner]

There's been some very good advice here. I'd like to add one very important observation to it.

If you're not being taught how to apply what they're teaching you the fault is in the teachers, not you.

It sounds like the teaching focuses on memorization and performance, not application. This is a common problem with martial arts classes. "How" gets subordinated to "What", and progress is measured by how many things you have learned. There is a huge list of forms and techniques which are supposed to work for specific situations. The term that my (extremely classical Old School martial arts) teacher uses for this is "Organized Despair". I'd guess that they're giving you a lot of material, probably too much.

Now, as to what to do about it...

A lot of the advice like "be spontaneous" and "visualize when you practice" is very good. But it's putting the cart before the horse. Spontaneity within a style comes when you have started to internalize, not just memorize, the material. "Casual competence" has to come after competence. In the sports training world visualization works best when you have the feel for what you are visualizing.

Start with one form or set of movements that you can do well without having to think too much. Do whatever else they tell you to in class, but concentrate on this one. By preference it should be pretty small and self contained with simple movements. When you're working on applying the material just pick from that one. If necessary, just pick one or two moves from the group and use them. If they're good root movements you will be able to apply them in many different ways. With fewer things to think about you won't overthink as much. And you'll be able to actually use what you're learning.

It's easy to say "Don't think" and "Relax". It's a lot harder to do it. It was eight or nine years before Guru Plinck stopped saying "Todd, relax" every single class.

Don't worry about getting hit. Being hit in practice is good as long as you learn from it. The only way you learn to make it work is by finding out what does and doesn't work.

Take things as slow as you need to to do them right and get them to work. Don't be afraid to do more with less. Speed, resistance and difficulty should be in a constant three-legged race with no single one of them getting ahead of the others.

 

[Sukerkin]

Superbly expressed, Tellner :rei:.

 

[jks9199]

Start with one form or set of movements that you can do well without having to think too much. Do whatever else they tell you to in class, but concentrate on this one. By preference it should be pretty small and self contained with simple movements. When you're working on applying the material just pick from that one. If necessary, just pick one or two moves from the group and use them. If they're good root movements you will be able to apply them in many different ways. With fewer things to think about you won't overthink as much. And you'll be able to actually use what you're learning.

Great advice. I've been taught that, under pressure, the mind will go blank. (I've proven this one!) Out of the hundreds or thousands of techniques that a master knows, he's doing incredibly well if, under pressure, he can remember three. (I've impressed myself remembering ONE thing under pressure!)

And that it's not how much you know -- it's what you can think of IN TIME that counts!

Limiting your focus to a few techniques lets you really concentrate on getting them to a usable level, under pressure.

It's easy to say "Don't think" and "Relax". It's a lot harder to do it. It was eight or nine years before Guru Plinck stopped saying "Todd, relax" every single class.

Let me guess... He's only saying it 2 out of three classes now?:wink2: I know that's how it goes for me!

 

[arnisador]

Thanks Jeff. It's totally me, my partners are committed to the attack. It's just this mental block that I have. It's not automatic for me yet so I have to go slow and think about it. Then I overthink it...

A well-known BJJ instructor has said that the hardest people to teach are strong people, as they tend to use their strength rather than technique, and smart people, because they over-think it rather than just letting it come naturally. I think it's not necessarily 'smart' as much as how organized one is in how one approaches life. The more organized and careful you are, the harder it is to "just react" without a plan.

The way to get over it is to practice practice practice. Then, two things: First, in sparring or self-defense scenarios, pick one technique (or a small class of related and similar techniques) and try to get that in. Use the same one for a few weeks. Yes, people will figure out you're trying to use it...but like tying your right hand behind your back to strengthen your left hand, this will give you a specific plan and also force you to find a way to make it work. Be prepared for a few frustrating weeks before it happens! After it starts coming, add a second technique. If you know you're trying to find the opening for either a front kick to the solar plexus or a ridge-hand to the jaw, you'll see those openings more easily.

Second, training to the point of (near-)exhaustion can help bring out the spontaneity because you're just too tired to think about it and it just happens. But this can only be successful after you've done many many many repetitions of the movements.

Speaking with another instructor or senior student, or going to a seminar, can help. It's amazing what hearing "think of this technique like this" can do for you. I remember having much trouble with a JKD technique until another JKD instructor, from a different lineage (whom I met via this web site, actually), pointed out that it was precisely the same as a FMA technique. I hadn't seen it! After that I was all over that technique. Getting a different point of view on some of the core material can really help. It doesn't mean anything negative about your current instructor--it just helps sometimes to see these things from another angle.

I haven't read the whole thread and I'm sure some of this has already been mentioned.

 

[frownland]

There doesn't seem to be any replies from other SPMers, so I thought I'd poke my nose in. I've now got close to 5 years in Chow Gar SPM, and the advice I have is along similar lines to this:

They say (whoever they are)
Xingyi takes about 2 to 2.5 years to begin to use it properly

Taiji takes about 6 years to begin to use it properly

Wing Chun you can start to use it after about a year. But that is start to use it not be proficient with it.

After 5 years, I'm just beginning to use SPM properly.

After less than 2 years, well ahhhhh.... just keep practicing. The techniques and forms need to become part of you (others have expressed this better than I could.)

Train, train, train, and eventually, even when you are repeating static drills, unexpected techniques will appear. You may not be able to name them, or even repeat them, but they appear.

In the meantime, when you're under pressure to produce something, concentrate on maintaining the right shape, the right structure, and good stance.

I disagree with the idea of "visualising", for whatever that's worth. Make contact, and feel for the technique. I believe SPM should be considered an "internal" style (define that as you please).

Also, do not compare yourself with those faster learners who make you feel like a "dumb girl". There's nothing to be gained there.

 

[Jade Tigress]

ok I skipped 5 pages of answers but I must ask
How many fights have you ever been in? how many times have you had to use your knowledge be it martial art or street to get out of a situation?
Most guys have been a few fights sometime in their life and some how that experience carries over to there training even if they do not know it.
Keep studying girl, it will come in time.

Thanks Sheldon. I've been in one fight, when I was 16, lol, and it wasn't a fight I was committed to, but rather pushed to. In that case, I knew it was either hit her first or get hit. So I hit her first. I pulled it, but she got the point, and a nice welt on her face to remember it by, and that was that. But you can't really count it as a fight.

A well-known BJJ instructor has said that the hardest people to teach are strong people, as they tend to use their strength rather than technique, and smart people, because they over-think it rather than just letting it come naturally. I think it's not necessarily 'smart' as much as how organized one is in how one approaches life. The more organized and careful you are, the harder it is to "just react" without a plan.

This is part of the problem I'm sure, because I am a very organized person, I like to have a plan and think everything out.

There's been some very good advice here. I'd like to add one very important observation to it.

If you're not being taught how to apply what they're teaching you the fault is in the teachers, not you. It sounds like the teaching focuses on memorization and performance, not application. This is a common problem with martial arts classes. "How" gets subordinated to "What", and progress is measured by how many things you have learned. There is a huge list of forms and techniques which are supposed to work for specific situations. The term that my (extremely classical Old School martial arts) teacher uses for this is "Organized Despair". I'd guess that they're giving you a lot of material, probably too much.

This is what contributes to my frustration because I AM being taught how to apply what they're teaching and I'm taught very well. My instructors are patient continually come up with various ways to teach each student, I have no complaints in that regard. It's not too much material, material is given in very slow progressive steps.

It's easy to say "Don't think" and "Relax". It's a lot harder to do it. It was eight or nine years before Guru Plinck stopped saying "Todd, relax" every single class.

Don't worry about getting hit. Being hit in practice is good as long as you learn from it. The only way you learn to make it work is by finding out what does and doesn't work.

Take things as slow as you need to to do them right and get them to work. Don't be afraid to do more with less. Speed, resistance and difficulty should be in a constant three-legged race with no single one of them getting ahead of the others.

Lol, yeah, I need to relax, I do tense up, and I hear "relax" alot. As far as getting hit, I'm not afraid to get hit in training, I've been hit plenty while training, not clobbered or anything, but the attacks are committed so if I don't block it I feel it. My problem comes less with blocking and more with following up with my own strike.

There doesn't seem to be any replies from other SPMers, so I thought I'd poke my nose in. I've now got close to 5 years in Chow Gar SPM, and the advice I have is along similar lines to this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xue Sheng

They say (whoever they are)
Xingyi takes about 2 to 2.5 years to begin to use it properly

Taiji takes about 6 years to begin to use it properly

Wing Chun you can start to use it after about a year. But that is start to use it not be proficient with it.

After 5 years, I'm just beginning to use SPM properly.

After less than 2 years, well ahhhhh.... just keep practicing. The techniques and forms need to become part of you (others have expressed this better than I could.)

Train, train, train, and eventually, even when you are repeating static drills, unexpected techniques will appear. You may not be able to name them, or even repeat them, but they appear.

In the meantime, when you're under pressure to produce something, concentrate on maintaining the right shape, the right structure, and good stance.

I disagree with the idea of "visualising", for whatever that's worth. Make contact, and feel for the technique. I believe SPM should be considered an "internal" style (define that as you please).

Also, do not compare yourself with those faster learners who make you feel like a "dumb girl". There's nothing to be gained there.

You're hitting the nail on the head here. Fact of the matter is, this is a very hard style to learn, and that's the reason a lot of people don't stick with it. It takes a looooong time to learn, and I know that, I do compare myself to the guys, it just seems to come easier for them, therefore they tend to go faster while I'm like, I need to slow down. And the instructors will tell them to slow down, but they don't like it, they want to go fast. So...pity the man that has to train with me, lol!

Thanks again everyone for all the excellent advice, I won't give up, I'm stubborn that way.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Just keep going Jade and it will come in time. The more you practice the more you will relax and in the moment it will just happen. Good luck!

 

[Jade Tigress]

Crap. I just found out I'm testing the 3rd week of January. I am not prepared. I have one instructor who teaches on Monday's and one who teaches on Wednesday's. I was talking to them about this. Both came to the conclusion that I am over thinking things. And I am. They give me great suggestions to overcome it, you all have given me great suggestions to overcome it. But....I can't! :vu:

As if testing isn't nerve-racking enough, now I have to worry about this portion of the test, and performing well in front of one of the head instructors with a video camera rolling. I'm doomed.

I am trying to visualize, I have all the techniques necessary to do well, I have great instructors and training partners. There's no excuse dammit. If I wasn't so damn stubborn I'd just give up. But that's not me. My goal is to become proficient in this style. I WILL DO IT DAMMIT!!! ... but I'm worried about testing. I'd feel better if someone else were having the same problem, but this is a problem for only me. *sigh*

In my previous style, we had an *if A is thrown, you do B*, and I could get that. But in reality, that is not how fights occur. You don't know what's coming and you have to be prepared to use the various techniques you have on the spur of the moment. What if someone throws A, you do B, and they can counter it? Then what? That is not realistic training to me. Easier yes, but not really preparing you for any scenerio.

I'm trying to go through my notes and choose 2 or 3 techniques for each possible attack so I have some sort of "plan". Yeah, I'll still be thinking rather than reacting, but, it's a start.

Wish me luck, I need it.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I hate to go all Bruce Lee on you here but “Don’t think…do”

Stop trying to figure out how to respond, stop trying to figure out 2 or 3 responses to an attack (attacks are way to fluid to look at them as something stagnant that you can prepare a specific response for), Stop thinking about it at all as a physical application to a choreographed attack. Stop thinking about it

Train, train and when you are done train some more, when you are not training with a sifu think about how the forms and movements make you feel when done correctly and DO NOT stress over PERFECTION…. Perfection is a myth. Just think about movement and flow not “they throw this punch I do this and then they go here” or “my foot really needs to be here at a 45 degree angle”

Why do you train? To get rank… to impress others… I sincerely hope not.

What is the worse possible thing that can happen in this test?

If you do not pass you will get thrown out of class…. doubtful
If you do not pass you will be beaten… also not likely

At worst you will test again at some later date. And all that means is that you were not ready or not suppose to get that rank at this time. If you truly want to understand the style you train this can actually be a good thing. Take the time is necessary this is not a race you are not competing against anyone in the class but yourself.

But, if you relax, train and STOP thinking so much about every little detail and stop stressing out over looking bad in front of others as well you will do fine. You are SUPPOSE to make mistakes in class because then they get corrected by your Sifu so you do not make them outside of class should you ever need to use any of this outside of class.

I mess up in front of my sifu all the time and to be honest I truly and happy when I do because that is when I learn the most. Do push hands with sifu, get knocked on my butt and I really learn an awful lot there both it technique and history (believe it or not). Make a mistake in a form in front of Sifu and I am the first to realize the mistake (or at least that is what I tell myself) and when sifu corrects me I learn and likely never make that mistake again. When he stops correcting it is a very bad thing.

If you did everything perfectly you would not be there learning, training and testing.

 

[Sukerkin]

Sound words, Xue. A hefty part of the process of any martial art is knowing when you didn't do it 'right' and learning why that was so. Another facet is realising that you seldom do any techique properly - if I get one cut close-to-perfect in a three hour session I'm a happy man .

 

[Cirdan]

Jade, I think your focus is too much inward while it should be on your opponent. If you don`t already do so I advice you to spend some time beating the crap out of a bag or pads. Put four wavemasters in a square around you and spend one minute rounds throwing everything you got at them in rapid series of strikes. You can also use four friends holding large pads that can be as agressive as needed pushing etc. This will teach you to focus on the target and string techniques together.

 

[Kacey]

Jade, if you went into a test knowing you would pass, it wouldn't be a test - it would be a demonstration. You need to get more practice (I know - in what free time) with as many different partners as possible - and they need to attack you so that you have to react. There's no other way to train reaction.

Just remember, your instructors wouldn't let you test if you couldn't pass - that doesn't (or shouldn't) mean that you're guaranteed to pass, just that you're able to - and testing is designed, and intended, to be a high stress situation, to see how students respond when under stress - keep that in mind when you're freaking out.