Extremely Frustrated

[Langenschwert]

Some good reaction drills might help. Start off with either an attack or defence explore. Give your opponent two options. One of these should be "do nothing at all".

For example, since I do sword arts, I'll use a simple strike:

I strike at my opponent. Ideally, he'd do nothing and I hit him (Option 1). Best case scenario. Second Option: I strike and he parries badly, off to the side without being a threat to me. I disengage my blade before the parry hits my blade, and attack his other side, hitting. Third option: I strike at him, and he parries well, threatening me. I continue with the attack and bind his blade. In a real combat, the bind would result in other techniques of course, but one thing at a time.

The same can be done practicing defence. You should defend against an all out attack (Option 1) as normal. Option Two: you defend but he counters your defence. You counter that counter. Or something to that effect. The key is to enter these techniques into muscle memory through asinine amounts of repetition.

Also, when sparring, go in with a PLAN. When I spar, I use the advice of the so-called Dobringer manuscript. It says when you close with someone, have a finished piece in your mind and say to your self "This is what I intend". And make it happen.

For example: I face my opponent and attack with a cut to his head. I assume that he will do nothing, though I am aware of what he could do. I have one or two things planned that I do if he actually defends well. I have one move for if he binds hard, and one for if he binds soft. That's all you need for now. As you get more "plans" made up, you will become more adaptive. Don't change the PLAN until your opponent makes that plan inoperative. After all, if he's not making it inoperative, then the plan is working.

Good luck.

Best regards,

-Mark

 

[Sukerkin]

Kds, another superb last sentence in one of your posts :tup:.

Expectations are always those things that can both drive or discourage us depending on how the mood drops. Without them, we'd never strive to achieve anything but it's always a good thing to step back and re-evaluate them on occaision so that they don't trip us up.

 

[Mr. E]

I can learn the forms, learn the techniques, etc., BUT when it comes down to applying the techniques off the cuff in self defense situations, I just can't do it! Total brain freeze, hesitation, I just can't make the cross-over in my brain! :wah:

You are not alone. You just realize the problem while others have not had a chance to realize they have problems.

There is now a huge amount of research that shows that different parts of the brain activate under stress. When you reach a point where you are afraid for you life, your body and mind swith from the day to day ways of doing things to another system.

So if you train with your day to day mind, your emergency system will react as if had no training because it has not.

Sound like a reason for what you are going through?

The key is to increase your fear and apprehension in training. Note, I am not talking about resistance. You can be quite scared without anyone laying a hand on you. But if you train in what you do when you are mentally stressed, you will find the skills are more easily availible when you are in a stressfull situation.

The amazing thing is that the old way of doing things seem to have done this type of training. Training in the old days sometimes ended up with the student getting injured and sometimes deaths happened. They trained under stress and as a by- product learned how to deal with stress. But much of this type of training was thrown out in modern times in the name of safety. The more I look at the new research and the way things are done in the traditional schools in Asia I have visited, the more they seem to reflect each other.

I started a thread over in the general self defense section about a drill that introduces people to this type of stress. You should look into it. Here it is. I hope it, and the other drills posted by the same person, will be of help.

 

[kidswarrior]

Kds, another superb last sentence in one of your posts :tup:.

Expectations are always those things that can both drive or discourage us depending on how the mood drops. Without them, we'd never strive to achieve anything but it's always a good thing to step back and re-evaluate them on occaision so that they don't trip us up.

Yes, I see we're eye to eye on JT's 'problem' (viz, 'I'm very, very good, but not yet perfect.'). Pam, enjoy...! You proved standing in the lunch line with your boss how far you've come. I'm sure everyone but you knows it. :asian:

 

[Jade Tigress]

Yes, I see we're eye to eye on JT's 'problem' (viz, 'I'm very, very good, but not yet perfect.'). Pam, enjoy...! You proved standing in the lunch line with your boss how far you've come. I'm sure everyone but you knows it. :asian:

Thank you Mark. :asian:

Unfortunately, I didn't get to train at all this week. Been sick as a dog.
Finally started feeling somewhat human yesterday, and today I think I'm almost back to normal! (well...normal for me...heh)

 

[seasoned]

You are not alone. You just realize the problem while others have not had a chance to realize they have problems.

There is now a huge amount of research that shows that different parts of the brain activate under stress. When you reach a point where you are afraid for you life, your body and mind swith from the day to day ways of doing things to another system.

So if you train with your day to day mind, your emergency system will react as if had no training because it has not.

Sound like a reason for what you are going through?

The key is to increase your fear and apprehension in training. Note, I am not talking about resistance. You can be quite scared without anyone laying a hand on you. But if you train in what you do when you are mentally stressed, you will find the skills are more easily availible when you are in a stressfull situation.

The amazing thing is that the old way of doing things seem to have done this type of training. Training in the old days sometimes ended up with the student getting injured and sometimes deaths happened. They trained under stress and as a by- product learned how to deal with stress. But much of this type of training was thrown out in modern times in the name of safety. The more I look at the new research and the way things are done in the traditional schools in Asia I have visited, the more they seem to reflect each other.

I started a thread over in the general self defense section about a drill that introduces people to this type of stress. You should look into it. Here it is. I hope it, and the other drills posted by the same person, will be of help.

Sounds like reality based training to me. It is done in the military and law enforcement. You have to train as close to the real deal as possible in mind and body. You will not graduate the academy or boot camp if you freeze or can’t remember what you have learnt. The same goes for any dojo, train like it was real so that your everyday mind and your Karate mind are on the same page. Train like it was real and your life depended on it and if and when the time comes to use it, it will be there.

 

[Brian King]

Any updates and new insights JT? How goes the training?

Brian

 

[kidswarrior]

Pam, have you been following the thread started by Exile on reaching plateaus in our training? http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=56490 Maybe there's something there that you can use? Anyway, hope it's going better for you. :highfive:

 

[Sukerkin]

- I was just going to suggest the very same thing, my friend :rei:.

 

[kidswarrior]

- I was just going to suggest the very same thing, my friend :rei:.

Oh, I count it a lucky day when I can arrive at a mental solution ahead of you, Mark. It's not often, and even then only by moments. :asian:

 

[Jade Tigress]

Well, I continue to love my training, but this is still my biggest weakness. I'm not quite sure how to overcome it. I wonder if it's a "class" thing. I feel if I were faced with a real life situation I would fight like crazy. My technique would probably suck, but I feel I at least have some sense of capability.

 

[DArnold]

Here we go again, I posted a couple years ago about the same problem when I was training Sil Lum. Now I've been training SPM for a year and same problem.

I can learn the forms, learn the techniques, etc., BUT when it comes down to applying the techniques off the cuff in self defense situations, I just can't do it! Total brain freeze, hesitation, I just can't make the cross-over in my brain! :wah:

I've been told to try and "visualize" an attack and formulate in my mind what to do. I tried that, same thing. I don't know, makes me want to just give it up, but I looove martial arts. It just seems to me the whole point of training is being lost.

It's even more frustrating because guys who have much less time in training than I do, don't have any problem with that cross over and it makes me feel like a "dumb girl". No one in class makes me feel that way. It's how I make me feel. I've been told to visualize, to continue practicing, that SPM is a difficult style to learn. I just feel like I will never get it.

How, how, how do I get past this hurdle???

Some never get over it.
Sometimes it is the mental state you are in at the time.
I like the "Kato" from the Pink Panther suggestion!

I hope this is not the end-all-be-all of why you train?

 

[seasoned]

Well, I continue to love my training, but this is still my biggest weakness. I'm not quite sure how to overcome it. I wonder if it's a "class" thing. I feel if I were faced with a real life situation I would fight like crazy. My technique would probably suck, but I feel I at least have some sense of capability.

Pam, it sounds like you may have answered your own question. It could very well be a “class” thing. All the ingredients are within you to accomplish all your Martial Arts goals. (1) You love your training. (2) If need be you would fight like crazy. (3) Sense of capability. I feel that if you continue to follow your path that any training issues you are having with time will work out for you. "We grow from frustration".

 

[Jade Tigress]

Some never get over it.
Sometimes it is the mental state you are in at the time.
I like the "Kato" from the Pink Panther suggestion!

I hope this is not the end-all-be-all of why you train?

I do believe my mental state may contribute to it, I've had some personal issues going on for quite some time, and I also have a hard time separating the friends from enemies thing. I love Kato from the Pink Panther, named my crazy cat after him.

Self-defense is not the end-all-be-all of why I train, but I have to be able to demonstrate self-defense for testing, another one of which I have coming up in a couple months.

Pam, it sounds like you may have answered your own question. It could very well be a “class” thing. All the ingredients are within you to accomplish all your Martial Arts goals. (1) You love your training. (2) If need be you would fight like crazy. (3) Sense of capability. I feel that if you continue to follow your path that any training issues you are having with time will work out for you. "We grow from frustration".

Thank you, these things are true. I appreciate the encouragement. :asian:

 

[Xue Sheng]

Well, I continue to love my training, but this is still my biggest weakness. I'm not quite sure how to overcome it. I wonder if it's a "class" thing. I feel if I were faced with a real life situation I would fight like crazy. My technique would probably suck, but I feel I at least have some sense of capability.

How long have you trained SPM now?

 

[Jade Tigress]

How long have you trained SPM now?

I started in July '06, so a little over a year. I attend class twice a week, and, I'm sorry to say, don't have much time for training on my own in between classes.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I started in July '06, so a little over a year. I attend class twice a week, and, I'm sorry to say, don't have much time for training on my own in between classes.

Then don't worry about it, its CMA. Relax and it will come, tense up and get frustrated it will take longer.

They say (whoever they are)
Xingyi takes about 2 to 2.5 years to begin to use it properly

Taiji takes about 6 years to begin to use it properly

Wing Chun you can start to use it after about a year. But that is start to use it not be proficient with it

And this is based on daily training so cut yourself some slack

SPM looked to me, in my limited experience with it, to be a bit complicated so relax, take it easy and it will come.

 

[kidswarrior]

I wonder if it's a "class" thing. I feel if I were faced with a real life situation I would fight like crazy.

Ya know, this brings to mind something I usually only think of in my professional context (as a teacher). For a long time I've believed there are several 'types' or categories of learners. Without boring the daylights out of you, will just say that two of the four in the model I use rely on authenticity to open the path to learning. In other words, if there's no real, authentic reason right at that moment to learn or demonstrate the learning, then these people just shut down.

I happen to be one of those myself. Hence, this post. In contrast to a hairsplitting debate thread (such as, what kind of belt should one wear ), it's a real (authentic) problem that needs a real solution. And right away wouldn't be too soon, huh? So maybe the class 'fighting' is too simulated for you. Honestly, I have always felt that way about sparring (which doesn't help you with your class performance, but hey, maybe if it sheds a little light...?)

...faced with a real life situation...my technique would probably suck, but I feel I at least have some sense of capability.

Probably true for all of us. But then again, as you imply, the outcome would not be in much doubt. You'd have an authentic reason to do well.

 

[Cruentus]

Well, I continue to love my training, but this is still my biggest weakness. I'm not quite sure how to overcome it. I wonder if it's a "class" thing. I feel if I were faced with a real life situation I would fight like crazy. My technique would probably suck, but I feel I at least have some sense of capability.

Just to chime in...

"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

I don't know the origination of that quote, but I love it.

You probably have to explore the idea that you might need a different training method altogether. This is a difficult idea to explore, because I am sure you enjoy what you are doing in class and the people you train with, even if it isn't getting you the results you want. But this is something that has to be considered.

I won't start a debate on your thread as to what training methods might be superior over others. But I will say that basic learning theory dictates that different people respond to different teaching methods and training environments.

Some can conceptualize forms very well, for example, and translate dead patterns in the air to an actual interaction with a partner. Some have difficulty with this. Perhaps supplementing your training with a different training method then what your class is offering will help you to make some connections.

The other thing to consider is that perhaps, to be blunt, that some of the stuff your trying to do just doesn't work, period. I see that all the time. I often see the misconception that a particularly difficult or complex move is perceived to work for some people who really train hard at it, implying that if you train hard at it that you can get it to work for you. When, the reality is, it doesn't work for ANYONE against a resisting opponent, even if an instructor was able to convince himself and others and make it look like it works by demoing it on a compliant training partner. Anyway, no one likes to consider that perhaps some parts of their forms or art are not effective, but one always has to do so for the sake of objectivity.

Anyway, best of luck to you. Getting to the bottom of these issues takes a lot of personal honesty, self-searching, and a willingness to betray desires for the sake of objectivity. This can be difficult for some. I wish I could offer a magic totem or few words of encouragement that would provide all the answers, but there is nothing that will do that for you. But, if you are having fun, and learning something about yourself, then it is all worth it, right?

Have a good one...

 

[IcemanSK]

Hey Jade. A lot of folks have given great advice. The only thing I want to add is to know that it's not a hurdle you cannot make or a problem with you (or your instructor for that matter). Everyone has a way they learn better than other ways. Perhaps the way you've been taught isn't a way that clicks with you. That's ok. A lot of folks here have suggested other great ways of trying the techniques that may click with you. As instructors, we tend to teach in a way we were taught &/or in the way we learn.

I know you'll "get it" because you love it so much.