Drugs in the dojo

[Balrog]

I've had a personal experience with this, and I'm looking to find other's thoughts on this.

If a student who is at an assistant instructor rank is a drug user, should they be given a chance to clean up, or kicked out? What if they don't improve after their chance to clean up?


I feel that if a student, especially at the assistant instructor level is a drug user, they should get a chance to clean up. However, if they don't, and they can't represent the school's outward beliefs on the subject, that they should not be allowed to participate or teach.

I feel that a black belt is supposed to be a model for all other students. I want to be able to look at any of our school's black belts, and say "I would like to be like him. I am proud to call him a fellow student." However, if they're a drug user, that's not something I can say.

Anyone else have thoughts on this?

Yes, and mine differ from others. I have had too many negative experiences with drugs in my life. I've lost one family member and almost lost a second to them. Anyone in my school that I find is using drugs will be immediately terminated from my school. And if they bring drugs in, they're going to jail. Period, end of statement. I don't need or want that stupidity and that crap in my life or my school.

 

[Transk53]

Yes, and mine differ from others. I have had too many negative experiences with drugs in my life. I've lost one family member and almost lost a second to them. Anyone in my school that I find is using drugs will be immediately terminated from my school. And if they bring drugs in, they're going to jail. Period, end of statement. I don't need or want that stupidity and that crap in my life or my school.

So what happens when the parent is at fault. Or are you so blinded by doctrine that you would miss that?

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Going back to the OP, I would not allow someone actively using to teach if I ran a school. However, I would allow them to attend classes, so long as they are in a rehab program (and have signed a release for me so that I am notified if they are discharged). This is true even if they don't necessarily enter the program because they want to get better, as sometimes their motivations can change.

We would have a long conversation about it, and they would not be allowed to bring drugs into the school, and I would want them to know that even if they relapse, they can tell me this and I would not kick them out of the school, but would encourage them to get back on the horse.

I would not want to punish someone for what is a chronic and cyclical disease, but instead would want to motivate and support them to get better. However, I would not allow them to teach unless they have at least a year in recovery, as I unfortunately cannot trust them enough at that point to teach other students, and/or (especially) children.

 

[Tez3]

If our students were found using drugs being thrown out of the martial arts club would be the least of their problems. They would be charged then thrown out of the army. There is random drug testing for the forces and some do get caught. However the intoxicant of choice for the army is alcohol, something that is both encouraged and discouraged confusingly. It's encouraged in the messes, where leaving before the hard drinking Sgt.maj is not allowed but there's posters up all over the place telling soldiers not to over-indulge.

 

[Saheim]

I worked narcotics, for many years. My opinion - kinda depends on what "drug" you're talking about.

If no one is showing up high, I really couldn't care less who burns a little herb in their off time. Most of the guys in my club enjoy a couple drinks (I don't for religious reason) I don't really see the difference between a couple beers and a couple bong rips.. Drugs in the dojo? Honestly, I think it should involve a beating (but that's just my opinion)

Performance enhancing drugs. Eh.... not really a big deal in my humble opinion. I've known plenty of people who juiced, their business not mine.

Leading another (especially a youth) towards self harm..... yea, we're back to deserving a beating.

 

[drop bear]

I worked narcotics, for many years. My opinion - kinda depends on what "drug" you're talking about.

If no one is showing up high, I really couldn't care less who burns a little herb in their off time. Most of the guys in my club enjoy a couple drinks (I don't for religious reason) I don't really see the difference between a couple beers and a couple bong rips.. Drugs in the dojo? Honestly, I think it should involve a beating (but that's just my opinion)

Performance enhancing drugs. Eh.... not really a big deal in my humble opinion. I've known plenty of people who juiced, their business not mine.

Leading another (especially a youth) towards self harm..... yea, we're back to deserving a beating.

Bit of fun.

 

[Balrog]

So what happens when the parent is at fault. Or are you so blinded by doctrine that you would miss that?

What did I say? I was very clear about what my reaction would be.

But I'm curious. How would the parents be at fault? Are you saying that the parents gave the drugs to the kid? If I found that to be the case, I'd have the parents arrested as well.

 

[Balrog]

Bit of fun.

Interesting. He catches them selling drugs in his gym....and he wants a cut of the proceeds? Makes him just as guilty as they are.

 

[Saheim]

Yea, while the "I'm gonna tax you a grand" video was funny (and most likely staged) it is entirely different than what I meant by a "beating". I was referring to corrective action NOT extortion lol

 

[Transk53]

What did I say? I was very clear about what my reaction would be.

But I'm curious. How would the parents be at fault? Are you saying that the parents gave the drugs to the kid? If I found that to be the case, I'd have the parents arrested as well.

Well it can be, especially if you injest compounds in the womb. Anyway probably on high horse again, but I seen weed for example, taken as thing that kids do. Oh it just s you giggle. Yes that would be some of the more liberal attitudes I have encountered. Anyway a sticky wicket.

 

[Kickboxer101]

What did I say? I was very clear about what my reaction would be.

But I'm curious. How would the parents be at fault? Are you saying that the parents gave the drugs to the kid? If I found that to be the case, I'd have the parents arrested as well.

The parents could be at fault for neglecting their kids and letting them go out at night and not keep a close eye on them or might not have given them the proper life lessons

 

[Balrog]

The parents could be at fault for neglecting their kids and letting them go out at night and not keep a close eye on them or might not have given them the proper life lessons

All of that might be true. But there isn't a kid in this country who doesn't know that drugs are dangerous and illegal, and that doing drugs is stupid. And yet they do drugs anyway. Just because the parents didn't keep an eye on them is no excuse, and even if they do, the kids can do drugs anyway.

 

[Dirty Dog]

The parents could be at fault for neglecting their kids and letting them go out at night and not keep a close eye on them or might not have given them the proper life lessons

Why is it the parents fault if the kid, who knows without a doubt that doing drugs is foolish (any who claims they didn't know is lying) chooses to do so anyway?
If a kid is old enough to be out of the house without a keeper, they're old enough for some personal responsibility.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Why is it the parents fault if the kid, who knows without a doubt that doing drugs is foolish (any who claims they didn't know is lying) chooses to do so anyway?
If a kid is old enough to be out of the house without a keeper, they're old enough for some personal responsibility.

I think this depends on the age of the kid. If he is 10-12 and sees his older sibling/older cousin/parent doing drugs, his concern is more about fitting in then what the drugs might do. 10 year olds just don't have the capacity to fully understand how this might ruin the rest of their lives.

 

[Buka]

Helped several martial folks get into drug rehab. Fortunately, we had resources and a great support group.

Growing up when I did - lost some friends, and lots of acquaintances, to drugs.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I think this depends on the age of the kid. If he is 10-12 and sees his older sibling/older cousin/parent doing drugs, his concern is more about fitting in then what the drugs might do. 10 year olds just don't have the capacity to fully understand how this might ruin the rest of their lives.

Indeed, most folks don't have that faculty until sometime in their 20's.

 

[wingchun100]

I've had a personal experience with this, and I'm looking to find other's thoughts on this.

If a student who is at an assistant instructor rank is a drug user, should they be given a chance to clean up, or kicked out? What if they don't improve after their chance to clean up?


I feel that if a student, especially at the assistant instructor level is a drug user, they should get a chance to clean up. However, if they don't, and they can't represent the school's outward beliefs on the subject, that they should not be allowed to participate or teach.

I feel that a black belt is supposed to be a model for all other students. I want to be able to look at any of our school's black belts, and say "I would like to be like him. I am proud to call him a fellow student." However, if they're a drug user, that's not something I can say.

Anyone else have thoughts on this?

I would not want someone teaching me who had a drug problem. Like others have said, reduce their rank and suspend teaching responsibilities until they are cleaned up.

 

[Midnight-shadow]

Why is it the parents fault if the kid, who knows without a doubt that doing drugs is foolish (any who claims they didn't know is lying) chooses to do so anyway?
If a kid is old enough to be out of the house without a keeper, they're old enough for some personal responsibility.

Well, according to the law (at least in England), a person cannot be accountable for personal responsibility until the age of 18. And the biggest problem about it is that more often than not the child doesn't know about drugs because the parents haven't educated them. The same goes for safe sex and Cigarettes. These are things that parents should be teaching their kids about, and aren't.

 

[Transk53]

Interesting. He catches them selling drugs in his gym....and he wants a cut of the proceeds? Makes him just as guilty as they are.

Sadly not uncommon in my experience. Anybody that wants to shoot the juice, all they need do is ask a certain type of body builder. Maybe not procuring at the gym, but will know where to get it.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Well, according to the law (at least in England), a person cannot be accountable for personal responsibility until the age of 18.

I'm going to raise the BS flag on this. Unless you're going to claim that the UK prosecutes the parents of minors who commit crimes (and we all know that isn't true) then it's clear that juveniles can be and are being held accountable for their actions.

And the biggest problem about it is that more often than not the child doesn't know about drugs because the parents haven't educated them. The same goes for safe sex and Cigarettes.

Right. Because kids in the UK don't watch TV. Or read the internet. Or go to school. Because none of this is ever covered in any of those places...

These are things that parents should be teaching their kids about, and aren't.

Sure. But even if the parents aren't teaching their kids, society IS. And I flatly refuse to believe that there is any significant chance that any kid in the civilized world can honestly claim to be unaware of the dangers of drugs.