American Kenpo not a complete art?

[_Simon_]

We had a Muslim start, at a dojo I used to be at. He said he could not bow to anyone as it counted as worship which, obviously, worshipping anyone/thing other than God is bad. The Professor made a small accommodation for him. Here's where it gets funny - I am also a Muslim and have no problem with the bow. I suggested to the Professor, "Ask him when he worships God, does God worship him back. Then ask him what you do, when he bows to you. That should make it clear it is not worship.... or you wouldn't be returning the gesture."
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Ah nice, that's a cool way of putting it .

From my current understanding, reverence for any expression of creation is reverence for God. Just really depends how God is contextualised ay. Even simple respect for another human is bowing to the Divine within them on a certain level. So yeah whenever I bow I'm not idolizing a person, but bowing from my heart to theirs and revering that which we both share.

 

[now disabled]

Ah nice, that's a cool way of putting it .

From my current understanding, reverence for any expression of creation is reverence for God. Just really depends how God is contextualised ay. Even simple respect for another human is bowing to the Divine within them on a certain level. So yeah whenever I bow I'm not idolizing a person, but bowing from my heart to theirs and revering that which we both share.

A good way of putting it

To me bowing to the teacher (whatever his title in the art) is not worship it respect (again I guess different ways to think of respect depending on where you come from) and showing willingness to learn from them. If you shake hands with a person is that not the same as a bow? just a different cultural difference. Even calling a person by there title could be construed as a bow in certain circumstances so to me any way it is not worship in any way

Bowing, depending on art etc done to a "shrine" (kamidana etc) possibly could cause some conflict.

 

[_Simon_]

A good way of putting it

To me bowing to the teacher (whatever his title in the art) is not worship it respect (again I guess different ways to think of respect depending on where you come from) and showing willingness to learn from them. If you shake hands with a person is that not the same as a bow? just a different cultural difference. Even calling a person by there title could be construed as a bow in certain circumstances so to me any way it is not worship in any way

Bowing, depending on art etc done to a "shrine" (kamidana etc) possibly could cause some conflict.

Yeah all depends on how it's contextualized, and the field which one's coming from, nicely said

 

[Saheim]

A good way of putting it

To me bowing to the teacher (whatever his title in the art) is not worship it respect (again I guess different ways to think of respect depending on where you come from) and showing willingness to learn from them. If you shake hands with a person is that not the same as a bow? just a different cultural difference. Even calling a person by there title could be construed as a bow in certain circumstances so to me any way it is not worship in any way

Bowing, depending on art etc done to a "shrine" (kamidana etc) possibly could cause some conflict.

Speaking of cultural differences, I'm a firm believer (stated it somewhere, might've been here) that the bow is way more common, in U.S. cultural, than people think at first. Ever notice when two guys, who look like they could handle themselves, make eye contact there is normally that little mutual nod before either looks away? Ain't that a bow? Just a little more subtle and abbreviated. That's an American bow

But yea, as for the question about religion and MA training being in conflict, I think a lot depends on WHICH religion. Some are known for being more pacifist than others. So the potential for conflict would be more or less, depending on the religions stance on the use of violence to preserve one's life. Even if talking about the dominant religion, in the U.S. (Christianity), you have so many sub sects with differing views on use of violence, capital punishment for example, that there will never be a definitive yay or nay on whether trying to perfect hurting humans is forbidden or duty.