Dropped my sparring partner, so he says

[JowGaWolf]

Yes, You are able to sweep both of the opponent's feet, even though he retracts his kicking leg.

This was possible because of the punches that I threw. It would not be possible without the strikes.

Trying to strike a guard or punch is more difficult and is open to counters from an opponent's on guard position.

Striking the guard is easy because your opponent will place his guard there to absorb the hit. Techniques and combinations exist so that misses are not costly or risky.

My opponent striking my guard

Same round. He strikes my guard again

This is a good example of the dangers of retracting your guard when someone is attacking it correct. I'm (red) trying to present my opponent with a good opening for a jab because that's the safest entry for the technique I will use. My target is his right guard so I can follow up with a secondary punch.

I drop my arm to present the opening, he moves in to punch and drops his guard.

I misread the puch which is not a costly mistake. Had stepped in with this attack then puch would have landed on his head. But I didn't step in because I didn't want to hit him in the head. Had he jabbed or keep his guard up then this first strike would have moved him, turned him, or damaged his guard arm. We naturally step in to close the distance. Dropping or the retracting the guard hand is more dangerous for him than for me as the path of my fist will continue to his head. I'm not worried about an over heand to my face because my rear right hand can protect me from that.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Per physics, the issue is your swing missed and the opponent is still in a position (on guard) to counter you.

Fighting is not a 100% physics activity. Physics does not calculate hesitation, the fear that a punch may hit your face, nor does it calculate misdirection (attacking high then low.) So any physics argument here is moot. If my opponent could have countered than he would have countered. Just like he tried to counter with that front kick that he missed. He didn't miss because he has bad aim, he missed because I was waiting for in and because I stepped off centerline of that kick. There is no Physics formula for the decisions that were made.

In your clip, the opponent tries to kick you, he brings his feet together, then you sweep him. When your opponent kicks, he is in a less position to defend and/or counter your sweep.

Yes that why I made the sweep at that point. I sweep people's feet when they are moving not when they are stationary. It was the punches that were driving his movement and not the sweep. The sweep just took advantage of that movement.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Noisy too, I never learned how to punch without them singing.

Noisy is an understatement. But I like the sound. I can only quiet them if I'm doing long fist striking technqiues (the big swings), which I like the feel fo how the weight is at the end of the fist. I wonder if that's why I was able to easily drive the power of my circular punches. I'll have to test that theory with the Muay Thai guy he has rings. If he practices with the techniques that I use then he should be able to quickly develop the sinking and the power at the end of the fist.

 

[drop bear]

This was possible because of the punches that I threw. It would not be possible without the strikes.


Striking the guard is easy because your opponent will place his guard there to absorb the hit. Techniques and combinations exist so that misses are not costly or risky.

My opponent striking my guard
View attachment 31571

Same round. He strikes my guard again
View attachment 31572


This is a good example of the dangers of retracting your guard when someone is attacking it correct. I'm (red) trying to present my opponent with a good opening for a jab because that's the safest entry for the technique I will use. My target is his right guard so I can follow up with a secondary punch.
View attachment 31573

I drop my arm to present the opening, he moves in to punch and drops his guard.
View attachment 31574

I misread the puch which is not a costly mistake. Had stepped in with this attack then puch would have landed on his head. But I didn't step in because I didn't want to hit him in the head. Had he jabbed or keep his guard up then this first strike would have moved him, turned him, or damaged his guard arm. We naturally step in to close the distance. Dropping or the retracting the guard hand is more dangerous for him than for me as the path of my fist will continue to his head. I'm not worried about an over heand to my face because my rear right hand can protect me from that.
View attachment 31575

So you are trying to establish a false range essentially?

 

[marvin8]

So any physics argument here is moot.

Your sparring photos illustrates a fundamental fighting concept (physics), not moot. Unless, you are arguing it.

You opponent's on guard position is considered a 50/50 position. When your opponent is kicking and you step off center (angle), your opponent's position is considered at a disadvantage.

My next swing goes for his guard again, but he retracts his guard.

View attachment 31557

...He does a front kick but it doesn't land because I step off center.

View attachment 31559

 

[JowGaWolf]

So you are trying to establish a false range essentially?

Correct. This is one of the foundations of long fist (for the long strikes). I don't know how those strikes would work without being able to do that.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Your sparring photos illustrates a fundamental fighting concept (physics),

And what fundamental fighting concept is that?

You opponent's on guard position is considered a 50/50 position.

And how is it a 50/50 position? What makes it a 50/50 position?

 

[marvin8]

And what fundamental fighting concept is that?

(First, I appreciate your sparring photos.)

Positioning.

And how is it a 50/50 position? What makes it a 50/50 position?

Starting from the safe zone, neither one of you has an advantage (50/50) because of the distance. As you move into the "fight zone," there is nothing stopping your opponent from retracting his arm or moving. Therefore, you missed the guard strike and created an opening.

In contrast with the lure the kick sequence from the "safe zone," you are able to control the punching lane with your long guard, enter the "fight zone" and step off center while your opponent is kicking. Your opponent cannot easily move back, while he is on one leg. This puts you in an advantageous position (not 50/50), where you change and execute the foot sweep.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Noisy is an understatement. But I like the sound. I can only quiet them if I'm doing long fist striking technqiues (the big swings), which I like the feel fo how the weight is at the end of the fist. I wonder if that's why I was able to easily drive the power of my circular punches. I'll have to test that theory with the Muay Thai guy he has rings. If he practices with the techniques that I use then he should be able to quickly develop the sinking and the power at the end of the fist.

I like that You said the sinking at the fist, which is hard for some people to feel, the upper arm moves like a pendulum so it has to go down to go up. It’s a subtle but significant change. The rings help develop that.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Starting from the safe zone, neither one of you has an advantage (50/50) because of the distance.

Just for clarity so that you understand me as well. This is not how I see and understand "safe zone." Distance doesn't determine where a safe zone is for me. Safe zone for me simply means where my opponent can't or won't attack from. A safe zone is specific. Here's an example.
1. Person A (Black head gear) doesn't strike limbs
2. Person B (Red head gear) does strike limbs.

A and B are equal distance from each other. In your eyes this would probably be a "Safe zone" In my eyes this is not a safe zone. Unless my opponent in not willing or does not attack limbs. Here Red uses the Mid guard to intercept incoming punch. The rear guard deal with anthing that gets past the Rear guard. Black cannot punch the body of Red. Red cannot punch the body of Black. Both both are in attack range. Red can attack black without moving his front leg but black cannot attack red without moving his front leg. Red is in a safe Zone, Black is not. This is the "false range" that Long Fist works in. It creates the assumption that "if you can't reach me then I can't reach reach you."

Here I wait for black to take a step. I'm not waiting for him to get in range. He was already in range in the upper video. Here I'm waiting him to commit to his step. I'm waiting for a weight transfer that will prevent him from escaping my strike. Black assumes that he is still in the safe zone. He did not realize that he was within striking range from the start. Now I'm just waiting for him to cut off his ability to escape.

He reachs to pull my guard. His punch still cannot reach my body. My punch cannot reach his body, But my leg can reach him without restriction. If you take a look at my left foot. It is still on the yellow tape. It has not moved. He thought he was in a safe zone but he was not. I'm only in a safe zone as long as he does not or cannot use the same kick.

After I kicked him a few times he decides to use the same kick. That safe zone from before no longer exists. This is 50/50 for me. I can attack him and he can attack me from the same distance. What you consider a 50/50 where neither can attack is what I call a stalemate. For me, safe zones shift according to where my opponent can attack from.

 

[JowGaWolf]

In contrast with the lure the kick sequence from the "safe zone," you are able to control the punching lane with your long guard, enter the "fight zone"

This is another foundation of long fist. Fill the punch lane with your strikes, parries, long arms. Two things cannot occupy the same space at the same time. But more importantly, we don't always know when a punch or kick is going to come in. We do not know if someone will take the bait or not. So the best way to deal with this uncertainty is to just fill the space. Had the guy that I swept moved forward or tried to jab me then my strikes would have hit his punch or his guard and I would have taken advantage of the opening that would have created. But I have to throw my strike hard enough to move through his punch and travel to his head. If he has good structure with his guard then I must have enough force to use his structure to turn his torso. If I hit softly then his torso will not turn.

A block is strike, a strike is a block.

Long fist will always try to present distance as a Stalemate, where the opponent believes that neither one can attack the other. Long fist will always try to deceive as well. All of the long swings from long fist causes the fist to travel outside of the field of vision.

The thing that your eyes do not see is probably what you'll get hit with. Now the question is, did you realize what was missing before I pointed it out.

 

[isshinryuronin]

A block is strike, a strike is a block.

JowGaWolf, you have now become a master.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

A block is strike, a strike is a block.

Agree with you 100% there.

beginner level - You punch me, I block your punch.
advance level - you punch me, I punch your punching arm.

I don't like crazy monkey boxing. It's too conservative for my taste.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Fill the punch lane with your strikes, parries, long arms.

This is a very important concept. If you occupy the space between you and your opponent, your opponent's attack has to go through your arms first. If you guard your space with jab-cross-hook-backfist-uppercut-overhand (6 punches in a row), your opponent won't have any space to punch back.

 

[isshinryuronin]

This is a very important concept. If you occupy the space between you and your opponent, your opponent's attack has to go through your arms first. If you guard your space with jab-cross-hook-backfist-uppercut-overhand (6 punches in a row), your opponent won't have any space to punch back.

Agree, IF he stays on the same line.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Agree, IF he stays on the same line.

The only drawback of this strategy is you have to spend a lot of energy. It may only suit for a young guy.

 

[marvin8]

Just for clarity so that you understand me as well. This is not how I see and understand "safe zone." Distance doesn't determine where a safe zone is for me. Safe zone for me simply means where my opponent can't or won't attack from. A safe zone is specific. Here's an example.
1. Person A (Black head gear) doesn't strike limbs
2. Person B (Red head gear) does strike limbs.

A and B are equal distance from each other. In your eyes this would probably be a "Safe zone"

No. Distance determines the safe zone. The safe zone means my opponent cannot kick me or hit my short or long guard, whether he uses that method or not. A related fundamental fighting concept is distance management (e.g., maai).

Red can attack black without moving his front leg but black cannot attack red without moving his front leg. Red is in a safe Zone, Black is not. This is the "false range" that Long Fist works in. It creates the assumption that "if you can't reach me then I can't reach reach you."
View attachment 31582

Yes, Black is not in a safe zone, if you can hit his guard. I am not assuming "if you can't reach me then I can't reach you." The safe zone is where neither one of you can hit each other because of the distance.

He reachs to pull my guard. His punch still cannot reach my body. My punch cannot reach his body,
View attachment 31584

Yes, that's a problem I brought up. Although he steps in and touches your guard, he did not break, your arm, KO you, stop you from countering him and needs at least a second action to finish you.

My timing was off and the boxer didn't send his jab when I expected. This is fine because I'm still out of range of his jab. I'm out of range because I was targeting that jab that you see here, this means my face doesn't have to be in punching range of his jab. This also gives him a second opening to look at.
View attachment 31556

My next swing goes for his guard again, but he retracts his guard. I angle the punch at this level to present openings and to keep him from coming in. Notice my 2 punches are head level.
View attachment 31557

Your 2 positions attempting to hit the guard are vulnerable to a KO. The first time is more difficult to counter. However subsequently, the educated opponent can create more time, lure your tendency out, step off line and KO you with the right cross or hook.

Kicking the lead leg can be less vulnerable and have more benefits.

https://imgur.com/1TdPISh

 

[JowGaWolf]

No. Distance determines the safe zone. The safe zone means my opponent cannot kick me or hit my short or long guard,

This is not true. Long Fist exploits this thinking all the time. The name says it all. Your idea of distance is based on your interpretation and assumption of what you think I can or cannot do at that distance. In long fist, the techniques will often give the perspective that we are too far away to strike. The purpose of this is to hide the truth of our striking distance.

You make the assumption that this is the Safe Zone because of the distance.

Jow Ga Kung Fu uses smiliar deceptions with it's long fists strikes.

 

[marvin8]

This is not true. Long Fist exploits this thinking all the time. The name says it all. Your idea of distance is based on your interpretation and assumption of what you think I can or cannot do at that distance. In long fist, the techniques will often give the perspective that we are too far away to strike. The purpose of this is to hide the truth of our striking distance.

You make the assumption that this is the Safe Zone because of the distance.
View attachment 31599

There is no assuming. It's physics, either a yes or no answer. Regardless of style, there is a distance where you cannot reach me without moving in. You can call that zone whatever you like, but it exists.

Jow Ga Kung Fu uses smiliar deceptions with it's long fists strikes.

Yes, there is distance deception. Your video shows him hopping in with his kicks and the pad holder moving the target/pad in to close the distance.

 

[JowGaWolf]

There is no assuming. It's physics, either a yes or no answer. Regardless of style, there is a distance where you cannot reach me without moving in. You can call that zone whatever you like, but it exists.

He says this is the safe zone. Here are the assumptions that I'm talking about.
1. If you are taking the stances that they are taking then yes. it is a safe zone mainly because you screwed up your kicking options with that stance.
2. The other issue is that this is safe zone for BJJ stance not for Striking stance.
3. For striking stance your legs are longer than your arm.
4. If you are measuring safety zone by the distance of your arms then you are going to get kiccked alot.
5. This does not apply to someone who has longer legs or longer arms going against someone shorter.

How long fist would exploit this logic.
1. Take a stance that puts our kicking in range while making it appear that our hands are out of range. For example. If the guy on the left lowers his stance, then the angle at which the arm stretches outward will cause what Drop Bear called "False distance." I would also make it appear that I'm fulling extending my arm to skew your sense of distance. This means you can determine the "Safe zone" as shown in this video and still get kicked.

This is something that I teach to students as a 1-month lesson and to people I train with. When I take a lower stance I appear far, when I stand tall I appear close. When I take a lower stance then I can push into a side kick. If I stand tall then I cannot push into an attack.

The other problem is the assumption that attacks do not move forward. If you are standing in one place, standing tall then this safe zone would be valid. if you push into your attacks then that safe zone that they talk about doesn't exists.

From a striking perspective. These guys will still get hit from that distance.