Domestic violence

[Tez3]

Oh, they know they are faking it, but it is all justifiable.

No, they don't, it's part of their personality disorder that they are charming and pleasant. They aren't OTT in their charm, they appear often as pleasant sociable people because that's what part of their personality is, that it changes when with a partner they abuse is also part and parcel of their personality. They have a tremendous sense of entitlement and often life they think conspires against them so that any failures are never their fault but they've been dragged down usually by their partner. They will often genuinely decry domestic violence, bullying etc because they don't see that is what they do. They also have an instinct almost about weaknesses in other people which they exploit, this is one reason we need to bring up children to be strong, well rounded people without lack of self esteem and with no self confidence issues. People basically who are happy and confident in themselves and are not fodder for the abusers.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

No, they don't, it's part of their personality disorder that they are charming and pleasant. They aren't OTT in their charm, they appear often as pleasant sociable people because that's what part of their personality is, that it changes when with a partner they abuse is also part and parcel of their personality. They have a tremendous sense of entitlement and often life they think conspires against them so that any failures are never their fault but they've been dragged down usually by their partner. They will often genuinely decry domestic violence, bullying etc because they don't see that is what they do. They also have an instinct almost about weaknesses in other people which they exploit, this is one reason we need to bring up children to be strong, well rounded people without lack of self esteem and with no self confidence issues. People basically who are happy and confident in themselves and are not fodder for the abusers.

This is accurate. When I speak of the mask that sociopaths and abusers sometimes wear, it's not a false part of them. It's just a different face of the same person. They have a "nice guy" mask (or face) that they normally wear. They have their "abuser" mask (or face) that they wear when they abuse. Both are the same person, and they are nothing alike.

 

[Tez3]

This is accurate. When I speak of the mask that sociopaths and abusers sometimes wear, it's not a false part of them. It's just a different face of the same person. They have a "nice guy" mask (or face) that they normally wear. They have their "abuser" mask (or face) that they wear when they abuse. Both are the same person, and they are nothing alike.

That's why they are so convincing when they tell you they haven't done anything wrong, because to them they really haven't.
In some cultures, beating your wife is expected by everyone even women, wives as property is 'normal', wives having value less than farming livestock is also 'normal', this is something that needs to be changed, we haven't left that state long ourselves in the west that we can afford to be superior. A concerted effort to deal with violence needs to be undertaken by society, it won't happen in my lifetime I know but I hope all the same and do my bit.

 

[hoshin1600]

every cereal killer believes that what they have done is justified.

 

[Steve]

every cereal killer believes that what they have done is justified.

I killed my Cheerios this morning, and it was completely justified.

 

[hoshin1600]

serial serial serial.....

 

[Touch Of Death]

View attachment 20115

serial serial serial.....

I have been counting. This is your second offense.

 

[JowGaWolf]

The problem is this. Abusers are manipulative sons of bitches. I am not black but where I work it has your typical "small city", largely African American, poor neighborhood. There you have black women being disrespected because they are under the economic control of their partner. Or you have the one who is convinced, due to the manipulation of the abuser, that it was their disrespect of their partner that brought the abuse. Hell after almost 20 years I have talked to more than one black woman and asked "he hon, I've know you all of your adult life, why do you keep having relationships with men who beat you and treat you like crap? You don't need a man to be a woman. You deserve better."

It sucks it is horrible and I think you either need to have lived it or see the effects on a regular basis (both options there suck btw) to really understand it.

Unfortunately not everyone listens to the lecture about not letting anyone disrespect them.

 

[JowGaWolf]

View attachment 20115

serial serial serial.....

I like the cereal version better that's why I didn't say anything lol.

 

[Tez3]

So glad you guys find this amusing. I think I'm done here.

 

[wingchun100]

last night i happened to find out my aunt who passed away a few years ago was a victim of domestic violence and it was her husband that shot and killed her then turned the gun on himself.
she was originally married to my uncle but he had passed away of a heart attack back in the 80's she had remarried and the family had lost track of her. then someone had made contact and her and her new husband started to show up at Christmas family gatherings. i knew she had passed but i didnt know why or how until last night when i was talking to a cousin.
as an instructor of self defense i am now wondering how anything i teach could have helped someone in her situation. at the moment i feel that somehow self defense would not apply to a domestic situation but that just feels wrong and incomplete. i had a student many years ago when i was a karate teacher that was abused by her husband. we never spoke about it directly but it was known. she really changed the way i approach self defense and my own path has become more about self defense because of our interactions. but now all these years later i still feel that what i do is still not applicable to a domestic situation.
am i right ? how do others feel their martial arts training or teaching applies.

I have thought about this myself, about teaching a free class to women who were victims of domestic violence. The reason is because most DV victims lack self-confidence. Martial arts helped ME gain confidence, so therefore I figured it could help someone else. However, there are so many facets to it that I still haven't wrapped my head around it.

Imagine this scenario: a woman lives with an abusive man. After a while, she trains to the point where she can defend herself. The abusive man comes at her one night, and she hits him. What happens next? He gets angrier, and things could escalate to a lethal level.

The main problem that I have seen faced by far too many DV victims is they have nowhere to go. Sometimes it may be because they have children, and no one would take the victim AND their kids in. Other times it is because the abuser has made them feel so worthless ("no one would want you...no one likes you") that they may BELIEVE they have nowhere to go, even if they do.

Certainly not a black and white issue, for sure.

 

[Juany118]

I have thought about this myself, about teaching a free class to women who were victims of domestic violence. The reason is because most DV victims lack self-confidence. Martial arts helped ME gain confidence, so therefore I figured it could help someone else. However, there are so many facets to it that I still haven't wrapped my head around it.

Imagine this scenario: a woman lives with an abusive man. After a while, she trains to the point where she can defend herself. The abusive man comes at her one night, and she hits him. What happens next? He gets angrier, and things could escalate to a lethal level.

The main problem that I have seen faced by far too many DV victims is they have nowhere to go. Sometimes it may be because they have children, and no one would take the victim AND their kids in. Other times it is because the abuser has made them feel so worthless ("no one would want you...no one likes you") that they may BELIEVE they have nowhere to go, even if they do.

Certainly not a black and white issue, for sure.

The problem is that the confidence born of martial arts needs to learned proactively. If the person is already in an abusive relationship, especially if it has been for some time, they could become a true master of a Martial art but they would not be in the psychological position to use those skills against the abuser. The amount of support and counseling needed to get someone fully out of the grasp of such a person can be pretty stark.

 

[wingchun100]

The problem is that the confidence born of martial arts needs to learned proactively. If the person is already in an abusive relationship, especially if it has been for some time, they could become a true master of a Martial art but they would not be in the psychological position to use those skills against the abuser. The amount of support and counseling needed to get someone fully out of the grasp of such a person can be pretty stark.

Right. Like I said above, this is not a black and white issue. There are so many facets to it that it boggles my mind. Most people think it's as simple as, "Well if the woman didn't like getting beat up, why would she stay with him???" There is such gross ignorance when it comes to the topic of DV.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I have thought about this myself, about teaching a free class to women who were victims of domestic violence. The reason is because most DV victims lack self-confidence. Martial arts helped ME gain confidence, so therefore I figured it could help someone else. However, there are so many facets to it that I still haven't wrapped my head around it.

Imagine this scenario: a woman lives with an abusive man. After a while, she trains to the point where she can defend herself. The abusive man comes at her one night, and she hits him. What happens next? He gets angrier, and things could escalate to a lethal level.

The main problem that I have seen faced by far too many DV victims is they have nowhere to go. Sometimes it may be because they have children, and no one would take the victim AND their kids in. Other times it is because the abuser has made them feel so worthless ("no one would want you...no one likes you") that they may BELIEVE they have nowhere to go, even if they do.

Certainly not a black and white issue, for sure.

I agree. I've considered working with someone who has a strong background with abused women to develop something appropriate for them, but I'd teach it after they have gotten out of that relationship, not during it, as a way to develop their self-esteem and help them feel safer (and in this case, the feeling would be important).

 

[Steve]

I don't know. It seems reasonable that if a person is looking for physical fighting skills while in an abusive relationshsip, they are demonstrating a desire to leave and are looking for empowerment to do so.

 

[Juany118]

I don't know. It seems reasonable that if a person is looking for physical fighting skills while in an abusive relationshsip, they are demonstrating a desire to leave and are looking for empowerment to do so.

A heroin junkie can start looking for outpatient rehab programs too. How many of those succeed? The dynamics are very complicated Why Women Stay: The Paradox of Abusive Relationships

So even if the abuser lets their partner study martial arts outside the home, once back inside the home the cycle continues.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I'm thinking a person can learn how to leave a bad relationship faster than they can learn the skills to physically fight the person that they are intimidated by or fear.

I say this because I think of all the Martial Artist out there that can't use their Martial Arts to protect themselves. I'm thinking of myself and how long it has taken me to just learn how to apply some of the simple Jow Ga techniques effectively in free sparring. If I was a woman getting physically abused by my husband then it would take me 2 years of going to class almost every class (5 days a week), an instructor willing to teach me the fighting side of using the techniques, and my own ability to either learn and understand the techniques. On top of that. It's guaranteed that any physical abuse by the husband is going to prevent me from going to the class as I try to hide the bruises.

I personally have never met a woman who was physically abused by her husband who was more interested in fighting back than getting out of the relationship.

 

[Steve]

A heroin junkie can start looking for outpatient rehab programs too. How many of those succeed? The dynamics are very complicated Why Women Stay: The Paradox of Abusive Relationships

So even if the abuser lets their partner study martial arts outside the home, once back inside the home the cycle continues.

Outpatient rehab programs often don't lead to long term sobriety, but they do demonstrate a desire on the part of the heroin addict to become sober, can connect the addict to services and can lead to inpatient treatment.

 

[Juany118]

Outpatient rehab programs often don't lead to long term sobriety, but they do demonstrate a desire on the part of the heroin addict to become sober, can connect the addict to services and can lead to inpatient treatment.

yes but there you KNOW the person coming in is an addict. Someone is not going to be signing up for a MA class saying "I am taking this class because my boyfriend beats me." As such you do not know the person needs such help and so do not know to connect them to the services that could really help.

 

[Steve]

Look dude. Its yiur faulty analogy. Don't bring it up and then tell me it's not the same.