Domestic violence

[Gerry Seymour]

Well this goes back to the feeling of self-esteem. If a DV victim had any sense of self-worth, then they wouldn't need to be in a relationship to feel like they deserved to even be alive. For some people, the issue is unbelievably bad. I know a young woman from my last job who was on Facebook saying she needed a boyfriend only a week after breaking up with her previous one.

I said, "Didn't you just break up with So-and-So?"

She said, "I know. I just don't like being single."

I said, "What??? So you dislike being single so bad that you will be with ANYONE just to not be single?"

There was a pause, and then I said, "You free Friday night?"

Anyway, the core issue is their self-esteem. When a person has healthy self-esteem, they can be fine on their own. And they know for DAMN SURE that if they are with someone who hits them, that they don't deserve it nor did they bring it on themselves.

Having a healthy sense of self-esteem is one of the most important things in the world. That is why I worship the writings and methods of Nathaniel Branden.

Self-esteem can be a part of the issue, but isn't necessarily a component (at least not initially) in DV. Self-esteem usually drops during the relationship, both because of the situation itself and because of the manipulation of the abuser.

 

[Tez3]

What I was relating to is the particular view that people feel they 'have to' make relationships work because society as a whole places large significance on relationships, views on 'Love' and why victims should stay.

A good many would disagree with you saying that we are in a 'throwaway' world where relationships are now short because at the first sign of trouble people bail out instead of trying to make the relationship work.
We are in great danger of stereotyping victims here, to paraphrase...happy relationships are more or less the same but ones where there is abuse are each different in their misery. Not all victims are lacking in self esteem, some are intimidated by threats and carried out violence to children and other family members, others have no choice because they are in arranged marriages, yet more have their self esteem and confidence eroded by the abuser, I can go on because we cannot label all abuse victims as being the same and 'if only they had self esteem and confidence they would never have been abused', it doesn't work that way.

 

[wingchun100]

Self-esteem can be a part of the issue, but isn't necessarily a component (at least not initially) in DV. Self-esteem usually drops during the relationship, both because of the situation itself and because of the manipulation of the abuser.

Right, and sometimes it unfortunately does not have too far to drop.

 

[Ademadis]

A good many would disagree with you saying that we are in a 'throwaway' world where relationships are now short because at the first sign of trouble people bail out instead of trying to make the relationship work.
We are in great danger of stereotyping victims here, to paraphrase...happy relationships are more or less the same but ones where there is abuse are each different in their misery. Not all victims are lacking in self esteem, some are intimidated by threats and carried out violence to children and other family members, others have no choice because they are in arranged marriages, yet more have their self esteem and confidence eroded by the abuser, I can go on because we cannot label all abuse victims as being the same and 'if only they had self esteem and confidence they would never have been abused', it doesn't work that way.

Again, I completely agree. Self-esteem is only one of many facets that affect the mindset of a victim, and all sides have to be carefully considered when tackling each problem individually.

I personally feel this

This below is regards to modern relationships in general, not domestic abuse:
But throwaway is the wrong term to use. Think about it in terms of friends. You have your high school friends you haven't spoken to in a long time, you have old friends that you stopped talking to because you've all changed. You meet new people every day which influence how you act and perceive yourself.
If you strip relationships and romance of their aforementioned mystical status, it's just another form of friendship. An incredibly close and intimate form of friendship. But if people say, leave a childhood sweetheart and head off to university, is it a 'throwaway' to end their long distance relationship because they've become a different person? Moving on is just a part of life to a certain extent.

It doesn't suddenly mean you have to cease all contact with that person because you've broken up with them. And if you both change together without clashing there's no reason to break up.
Long term marriages are a beautiful thing, but just as much as long term friendships. And the two can mix and match imo as people change and grow. It shouldn't be a shame to end a relationship.


Apologies for the rant

 

[wingchun100]

A good many would disagree with you saying that we are in a 'throwaway' world where relationships are now short because at the first sign of trouble people bail out instead of trying to make the relationship work.
We are in great danger of stereotyping victims here, to paraphrase...happy relationships are more or less the same but ones where there is abuse are each different in their misery. Not all victims are lacking in self esteem, some are intimidated by threats and carried out violence to children and other family members, others have no choice because they are in arranged marriages, yet more have their self esteem and confidence eroded by the abuser, I can go on because we cannot label all abuse victims as being the same and 'if only they had self esteem and confidence they would never have been abused', it doesn't work that way.

I never said all victims are lacking in self-esteem. We are talking about various factors. My point was that low self-esteem can contribute. Having had low self-esteem myself, I have stayed in relationships that were emotionally abusive. I felt like I didn't deserve to be treated any better...I felt like I must have done something to make my girlfriend be so super mean and nasty to me, etc.

I know that, comparatively speaking, I had it easier than some DV victims. I never had anyone make threats of harm to myself, my children, or other family members. So I cannot speak to what those victims experience. However, I am living, breathing, walking, talking proof of what emotional/mental abuse can do to someone. In my opinion, I feel if I'd had a healthier sense of self-esteem going into those relationships, then I would have recognized abuse and gotten out sooner.

Then again, that is all Monday morning quarterbacking, isn't it? I guess the only way to tell would be if I got into the same situation now that I DO have a better sense of self-esteem.

 

[Tez3]

Again, I completely agree. Self-esteem is only one of many facets that affect the mindset of a victim, and all sides have to be carefully considered when tackling each problem individually.

I personally feel this

This below is regards to modern relationships in general, not domestic abuse:
But throwaway is the wrong term to use. Think about it in terms of friends. You have your high school friends you haven't spoken to in a long time, you have old friends that you stopped talking to because you've all changed. You meet new people every day which influence how you act and perceive yourself.
If you strip relationships and romance of their aforementioned mystical status, it's just another form of friendship. An incredibly close and intimate form of friendship. But if people say, leave a childhood sweetheart and head off to university, is it a 'throwaway' to end their long distance relationship because they've become a different person? Moving on is just a part of life to a certain extent.

It doesn't suddenly mean you have to cease all contact with that person because you've broken up with them. And if you both change together without clashing there's no reason to break up.
Long term marriages are a beautiful thing, but just as much as long term friendships. And the two can mix and match imo as people change and grow. It shouldn't be a shame to end a relationship.


Apologies for the rant

I feel you have gone off on a tangent from what I mentioned. I feel people should divorce if they feel the marriage won't work anymore but the 'throwaway' remark is more that many feel marriage is for life and rather than try to work on the relationship and try to make it work people walk away. Many feel divorce is far too easy which means people don't try to make a marriage work and just split up the minute there's difficulties. It's not a case of people growing apart or changing, often it's the opposite, they aren't willing to compromise what they want with what the partner wants and they just split up, No relationship thrives without some work on both sides.
As someone who has been married over forty years I had to smile at what I think is your just a bit naivety in people's relationships. 'Mystical' they aren't but again like the domestic violence issues, relationships aren't as simple as just being friends, there is a lot more going on in some people's marriage's and relationships. Some long term marriages are just bloody miserable things because it's two people unable to divorce and unable to live together but have to. That's the marriage is for life brigade, some of course stay together for the children, some stay together out of habit, some stay together because one is the other's carer, some do stay together because they want to though.

 

[Ademadis]

I feel you have gone off on a tangent from what I mentioned. I feel people should divorce if they feel the marriage won't work anymore but the 'throwaway' remark is more that many feel marriage is for life and rather than try to work on the relationship and try to make it work people walk away. Many feel divorce is far too easy which means people don't try to make a marriage work and just split up the minute there's difficulties. It's not a case of people growing apart or changing, often it's the opposite, they aren't willing to compromise what they want with what the partner wants and they just split up, No relationship thrives without some work on both sides.
As someone who has been married over forty years I had to smile at what I think is your just a bit naivety in people's relationships. 'Mystical' they aren't but again like the domestic violence issues, relationships aren't as simple as just being friends, there is a lot more going on in some people's marriage's and relationships. Some long term marriages are just bloody miserable things because it's two people unable to divorce and unable to live together but have to. That's the marriage is for life brigade, some of course stay together for the children, some stay together out of habit, some stay together because one is the other's carer, some do stay together because they want to though.

Yeah definitely a bit of a tangent

How about i clock back in 20 years and let you know how I've done?

 

[Tez3]

Yeah definitely a bit of a tangent

How about i clock back in 20 years and let you know how I've done?

Sadly, I'll probably still be here lol. ( that noise you hear is many people groaning!)