Domestic violence

[JowGaWolf]

2 things that can keep a person from learning the skills and knowledge required to be safe "I will never happen to me" and "If it happens to me, then I can handle it."
These also happen to be 2 of the most common responses I get when trying to get people that I know to take a Martial Arts with a self defense focus or when talking about the possibility of being a victim of an act that from first looks seems unlikely to ever happen.

I think if someone wanted to put together a good Domestic Violence program then they would need to get the input of the person who is the victim and the friends who saw the signs of domestic violence tendencies that the victim ignored. Reflecting back on the video of the woman who said she didn't realize she was a victim until she was out of the situation, I bet she had a bunch of friends who saw the signs in the early stages. Friends usually spot the signs of control early on, because their life and interaction with the victim changes drastically.

This is what many outsiders see when it comes to domestic violence. The ones in red are the one's that I've seen personally and they are usually low key things that really don't raise an alarm as much as make the friend question "Why is she or he letting that guy control her like that."
Are you concerned that someone you care about is experiencing abuse? Maybe you’ve noticed some warning signs, including:

• Their partner puts them down in front of other people
• They are constantly worried about making their partner angry
• They make excuses for their partner’s behavior
• Their partner is extremely jealous or possessive
• They have unexplained marks or injuries
• They’ve stopped spending time with friends and family
• They are depressed or anxious, or you notice changes in their personality

Source: The National Domestic Violence Hotline | Help for Friends and Family
Here are some more warning signs
Below is a list of possible signs of abuse. Some of these are illegal. All of them are wrong. You may be abused if your partner:

• Monitors what you're doing all the time
• Unfairly accuses you of being unfaithful all the time
• Prevents or discourages you from seeing friends or family
• Prevents or discourages you from going to work or school
• Gets very angry during and after drinking alcohol or using drugs
• Controls how you spend your money
• Controls your use of needed medicines
• Decides things for you that you should be allowed to decide (like what to wear or eat)
• Humiliates you in front of others
• Destroys your property or things that you care about
• Threatens to hurt you, the children, or pets
• Hurts you (by hitting, beating, pushing, shoving, punching, slapping, kicking, or biting)
• Uses (or threatens to use) a weapon against you
• Forces you to have sex against your will
• Controls your birth control or insists that you get pregnant
• Blames you for his or her violent outbursts
• Threatens to harm himself or herself when upset with you
• Says things like, "If I can't have you then no one can."

Source: Am I being abused? | womenshealth.gov

To me domestic violence victims have the same problem that fighters have. You really don't have a good idea of the situation until you can see yourself from the outside. For fighters and athletes in general that would be in the form of a video. For domestic violence victims that outside view usually comes from friends and family who tell the victim that they have changed and they don't do things like they used to do.

 

[Tez3]

For domestic violence victims that outside view usually comes from friends and family who tell the victim that they have changed and they don't do things like they used to do

Which is why the abusers cut their partners off from their friends and family, so there is actually no one to tell them is there?

 

[JowGaWolf]

Which is why the abusers cut their partners off from their friends and family, so there is actually no one to tell them is there?

Makes sense the ones who will pick it up early are most likely to be the friends. Especially if the abuser gives certain looks to those he sees as a threat. The types of looks he gives when his partner isn't aware. My daughter's ex boyfriend flexed on me during a cam chat. My daughter didn't see this jester but I saw it clearly. He did it knowing that I'm on the other side of the planet.
I'm still debating if I will punch him if I ever see him in person. Maybe I'll abuse him the same way he abused my daughter.
Good news is that daughter isn't with him anymore but it took her forever to get out of the relationship.

 

[Tez3]

Makes sense the ones who will pick it up early are most likely to be the friends. Especially if the abuser gives certain looks to those he sees as a threat. The types of looks he gives when his partner isn't aware. My daughter's ex boyfriend flexed on me during a cam chat. My daughter didn't see this jester but I saw it clearly. He did it knowing that I'm on the other side of the planet.
I'm still debating if I will punch him if I ever see him in person. Maybe I'll abuse him the same way he abused my daughter.
Good news is that daughter isn't with him anymore but it took her forever to get out of the relationship.

Abusers are cleverer than that, they don't glower at people, they are charming, pleasant, witty, they launch a charm offensive at the friends who will then unknowingly gang up with them against their friend. 'Oh gosh you have such a perfect partner, you can't want to leave him', 'he'd never hurt you deliberately, he's such a teddy bear'. It's never as simple as people think.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

2 things that can keep a person from learning the skills and knowledge required to be safe "I will never happen to me" and "If it happens to me, then I can handle it."
These also happen to be 2 of the most common responses I get when trying to get people that I know to take a Martial Arts with a self defense focus or when talking about the possibility of being a victim of an act that from first looks seems unlikely to ever happen.

I think if someone wanted to put together a good Domestic Violence program then they would need to get the input of the person who is the victim and the friends who saw the signs of domestic violence tendencies that the victim ignored. Reflecting back on the video of the woman who said she didn't realize she was a victim until she was out of the situation, I bet she had a bunch of friends who saw the signs in the early stages. Friends usually spot the signs of control early on, because their life and interaction with the victim changes drastically.

This is what many outsiders see when it comes to domestic violence. The ones in red are the one's that I've seen personally and they are usually low key things that really don't raise an alarm as much as make the friend question "Why is she or he letting that guy control her like that."
Are you concerned that someone you care about is experiencing abuse? Maybe you’ve noticed some warning signs, including:

• Their partner puts them down in front of other people
• They are constantly worried about making their partner angry
• They make excuses for their partner’s behavior
• Their partner is extremely jealous or possessive
• They have unexplained marks or injuries
• They’ve stopped spending time with friends and family
• They are depressed or anxious, or you notice changes in their personality

Source: The National Domestic Violence Hotline | Help for Friends and Family
Here are some more warning signs
Below is a list of possible signs of abuse. Some of these are illegal. All of them are wrong. You may be abused if your partner:

• Monitors what you're doing all the time
• Unfairly accuses you of being unfaithful all the time
• Prevents or discourages you from seeing friends or family
• Prevents or discourages you from going to work or school
• Gets very angry during and after drinking alcohol or using drugs
• Controls how you spend your money
• Controls your use of needed medicines
• Decides things for you that you should be allowed to decide (like what to wear or eat)
• Humiliates you in front of others
• Destroys your property or things that you care about
• Threatens to hurt you, the children, or pets
• Hurts you (by hitting, beating, pushing, shoving, punching, slapping, kicking, or biting)
• Uses (or threatens to use) a weapon against you
• Forces you to have sex against your will
• Controls your birth control or insists that you get pregnant
• Blames you for his or her violent outbursts
• Threatens to harm himself or herself when upset with you
• Says things like, "If I can't have you then no one can."

Source: Am I being abused? | womenshealth.gov

To me domestic violence victims have the same problem that fighters have. You really don't have a good idea of the situation until you can see yourself from the outside. For fighters and athletes in general that would be in the form of a video. For domestic violence victims that outside view usually comes from friends and family who tell the victim that they have changed and they don't do things like they used to do.

One of the hardest parts in this for outside observers is that they may quickly lose contact, taking away the opportunity to spot any but the one potential symptom. And that one (losing contact with friends and family) can happen to anyone in a relationship - we get to spending time with our new love and just don't have as much time to spend with others. So it can be hard for folks to recognize that as a symptom. And then we have to consider the excuses, because some people make REALLY good excuses. They rationalize stuff so well that it actually sounds rational to others, masking many of the other red flags from view.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Abusers are cleverer than that, they don't glower at people, they are charming, pleasant, witty, they launch a charm offensive at the friends who will then unknowingly gang up with them against their friend. 'Oh gosh you have such a perfect partner, you can't want to leave him', 'he'd never hurt you deliberately, he's such a teddy bear'. It's never as simple as people think.

I haven't met ones like that. That I know of.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I haven't met ones like that. That I know of.

I've highlighted the key portion.
I've treated literally hundreds of victims of domestic violence. The typical profile for a domestic abuser is very much what Tez3 describes. Especially immediately following an episode of abuse. They are totally charming, which is why the victim becomes involved with them in the first place. Then things build up over time, until the abuser hurts the victim. Then they enter what is called the "honeymoon phase" where they return to being kind, gentle, loving... that's how they convince the victim to stay with them for round 2. Or 3. Or 23.
Let's face it. If they were douchebags from the start, the victims would be far, far, less likely to ever become involved with them in the first place. And without the Honeymoon phase, they'd be far less successful at keeping the victims around.

 

[aedrasteia]

I haven't met ones like that. That I know of.

Of course you haven't met "ones like that". You are not the target. You are not the person they have targeted.
Why would you think you are? The face that abusers wear depends on the person they are presenting to. and the situation.
w/respect, A

 

[Buka]

I've only met a couple who aren't like that. All the others - pretty much spot on Tez's description.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I've highlighted the key portion.
I've treated literally hundreds of victims of domestic violence. The typical profile for a domestic abuser is very much what Tez3 describes. Especially immediately following an episode of abuse. They are totally charming, which is why the victim becomes involved with them in the first place. Then things build up over time, until the abuser hurts the victim. Then they enter what is called the "honeymoon phase" where they return to being kind, gentle, loving... that's how they convince the victim to stay with them for round 2. Or 3. Or 23.
Let's face it. If they were douchebags from the start, the victims would be far, far, less likely to ever become involved with them in the first place. And without the Honeymoon phase, they'd be far less successful at keeping the victims around.

Yes. And I've forgotten the psychological processes involved, but that honeymoon phase after round 1 creates a false anticipation that things can be in the future as good as they were in the past.

 

[Juany118]

Of course you haven't met "ones like that". You are not the target. You are not the person they have targeted.
Why would you think you are? The face that abusers wear depends on the person they are presenting to. and the situation.
w/respect, A

Exactly. Even after the abuse starts, if the police become involved (even making arrests), the victim more often then not will not show up for hearings or, if they do, refuse to testify. The bail requirements may say "no contact with victim" but we will find them living together again. Why? Because the suspect has gone back to being the charming and "lovey dovey" guy he was before. It's all better they think, he promises not to do it again they say, but then as soon as the hearing is passed, the case dismissed, it's back to the cycle of violence.

 

[aedrasteia]

a POV from an interesting guy.: spoken word.

Home

 

[JowGaWolf]

Maybe someone who is "too charming" or "too perfect" is the first alert sign. I'll use myself as an example. I feel uneasy with people who are overly friendly in a way that is out of the norm. Not sure why, but to me that type of behavior is almost like the boy who talks sweet to the puppy just before he kicks the mess out of the puppy.

When people are over charming or too friendly, it begins to feel like a lure to me even if they are good people.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Maybe someone who is "too charming" or "too perfect" is the first alert sign. I'll use myself as an example. I feel uneasy with people who are overly friendly in a way that is out of the norm. Not sure why, but to me that type of behavior is almost like the boy who talks sweet to the puppy just before he kicks the mess out of the puppy.

When people are over charming or too friendly, it begins to feel like a lure to me even if they are good people.

The problem is they are so difficult to differentiate from people who are actually that friendly. I've known people who were genuinely that way, and I've known a couple of people (discovered after the fact) for whom it was that mask that abusers and some sociopaths wear.

 

[Juany118]

The problem is they are so difficult to differentiate from people who are actually that friendly. I've known people who were genuinely that way, and I've known a couple of people (discovered after the fact) for whom it was that mask that abusers and some sociopaths wear.

Yeah. Add to the fact that people that appear to be a caricature of charming behavior are the flip side of the "obviously" controlling and abuse, they are the outliers.

What makes domestic abuse so insidious is the fact that it can be so easily concealed from the outside world. Heck the people can appear so normal that it is not unusual for friends or family to be in utter disbelief if allegations surface, sometimes to the point that they question the veracity of the victim or even think things like "oh he is so nice, she must have done something heinous for him to be pushed that far."

 

[Tez3]

Google the campaign by Sir Patrick Stewart the actor against domestic violence, he's patron of Refuge here, a charity for domestic abuse survivors. He recalls the police when he was a child telling his mother that she must have done something to enrage his father or that it takes two to argue, after police were called when his father was beating his mother up. partners aren't the only ones who suffer the children as he was then do. He's 76 now and it still causes pain.

People aren't 'too charming' or 'too perfect' they are nice, normal and very good at being that because they believe they are, it's not false, they don't put it on, it's not to hide what they are because this is part of their personality. They also don't believe they are doing anything wrong or that it's their fault. They have a personality disorder and it's rare that they will change.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Google the campaign by Sir Patrick Stewart the actor against domestic violence, he's patron of Refuge here, a charity for domestic abuse survivors. He recalls the police when he was a child telling his mother that she must have done something to enrage his father or that it takes two to argue, after police were called when his father was beating his mother up. partners aren't the only ones who suffer the children as he was then do. He's 76 now and it still causes pain.

People aren't 'too charming' or 'too perfect' they are nice, normal and very good at being that because they believe they are, it's not false, they don't put it on, it's not to hide what they are because this is part of their personality. They also don't believe they are doing anything wrong or that it's their fault. They have a personality disorder and it's rare that they will change.

Well the only thing that I can think of is what black parents here often tell their children.

Don't let anyone disrespect you.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Google the campaign by Sir Patrick Stewart the actor against domestic violence, he's patron of Refuge here, a charity for domestic abuse survivors. He recalls the police when he was a child telling his mother that she must have done something to enrage his father or that it takes two to argue, after police were called when his father was beating his mother up. partners aren't the only ones who suffer the children as he was then do. He's 76 now and it still causes pain.

People aren't 'too charming' or 'too perfect' they are nice, normal and very good at being that because they believe they are, it's not false, they don't put it on, it's not to hide what they are because this is part of their personality. They also don't believe they are doing anything wrong or that it's their fault. They have a personality disorder and it's rare that they will change.

Oh, they know they are faking it, but it is all justifiable.

 

[Juany118]

Well the only thing that I can think of is what black parents here often tell their children.

Don't let anyone disrespect you.

The problem is this. Abusers are manipulative sons of bitches. I am not black but where I work it has your typical "small city", largely African American, poor neighborhood. There you have black women being disrespected because they are under the economic control of their partner. Or you have the one who is convinced, due to the manipulation of the abuser, that it was their disrespect of their partner that brought the abuse. Hell after almost 20 years I have talked to more than one black woman and asked "he hon, I've know you all of your adult life, why do you keep having relationships with men who beat you and treat you like crap? You don't need a man to be a woman. You deserve better."

It sucks it is horrible and I think you either need to have lived it or see the effects on a regular basis (both options there suck btw) to really understand it.

 

[Juany118]

Oh, they know they are faking it, but it is all justifiable.

Actually a lot of them don't. The rationalization of the victim "it was my fault" is often shared by the abuser. They often don't say "this was your fault" as a BS excuse they honestly believe that their partner "pushed them beyond the breaking point." Few will ever say "i am an $@#hole, I just don't care.